AD Selling out the back door? - Here’s pictures!

[minute_man]

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

This is very very very old news. Has been happening since (at least) 2019.

Exactly.

And in my neck of the woods, up until recently you could practically ORDER almost any hot piece from certain grey dealers with a warranty card dated the day of YOUR purchase.
And that has been their main point of contention when you got lowballed for your 2-3 year old but otherwise pristine time piece you brought in for sale or trade.
As for the ADs, their best client isn't some imaginary rich guy with an insatiable appetite for anything Rolex, but your local grey. Families who have traditionally purchased Rolexes from various ADs over generations have been treated much the same way as walk-ins the past few years. The tide is definitely turning though as the profit margin in 2ndary market is shrinking partly due to reduced demand and partly due to MSRP increase. Certain models and not just PM or TT ones now sell for under MSRP on the grey market.
Most greys are also thinning their stock now and the "ask for price" signs have largely been replaced by reduced prices and offers. I'm currently holding out for a further price drop before I make my next purchase.

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by Ensign

“the system is broken?” It’s a luxury item sold by a private business; they can sell it to whomever they like, and however they like.

Originally Posted by rolexnerd

That’s exactly how Rolex operates—they sell to the AD’s, and from there, it’s up to the ADs to manage sales to their customers. Each AD has its own system and set of rules.

ADs are not allowed to sell Rolex watches above MSRP. It is generally understood that ADs who sell through the back door to grey market dealers are doing so at grey market prices. That Pepsi you see offered for $20,950 by the grey market dealer may have been sold by the AD to this dealer for over $18,000 instead of the $10,900 retail price. That is against Rolex policy, and is just downright unethical

[hojlund]

your pictures proof nothing, lol.

[rolexnerd]

Originally Posted by hojlund

your pictures proof nothing, lol.

Exactly!!

[Deppe]

I picked up a Rolex with my local grey, and they told me that they knew the guy who sold it to them - he buys a shit ton of watches, IWC’s, JLC’s all that kind of stuff. Rolex does not do anything for him, so when he gets allocated a desirable SS Rolex, he sells it to help finance the other watches.

Also, they told me that sometimes they have guys calling them, saying that they are on the way to the AD to pick up a SS Rolex, and how much they will pay.

So while it is annoying that there is nothing for sale, these pictures are not nessecarily proof, that they are selling out the back door.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by huncho

could be a flipper, could be back dooring. the point is we don't know from those pictures and they don't prove anything, unlike the title of this thread implies

Have to agree and pure hearsay from the original poster and cannot see any AD selling watches out of the back door that could effect his lively hood and business. With Rolex watches in high demand just cannot see why any AD would do this.

[Number3]

Originally Posted by huncho

all those dates are from weeks ago, how do you know they're not from flippers? guy in the first pic even looks like he's crossing out info on the invoice

The VTNR is dated Friday!

[joli160]

Originally Posted by hojlund

your pictures proof nothing, lol.

Seems like a witch hunt.
So many people feel they have the right to buy a hyped Rolex for MSRP and get ‘free money’ when they flip it.

[Gratters]

Originally Posted by Ensign

“the system is broken?” It’s a luxury item sold by a private business; they can sell it to whomever they like, and however they like.

errr not according to Rolex they can't!

[Devildog]

All those pictures show is a reseller having "new" stock.

Picked up and sold with an hour could just as easily refer to the customer who picked up a new VTNR and then immediately sold it on to KDTimepeice.

I've seen a customer walk out of an AD, turn left, walk two stores down into a reseller and flip a SS skydweller.

It happens. It happens a lot.

It would be beyond stupid for a "grey" to clearly publish the details of an AD that was selling watches "out the back door" and would most certainly end that relationship if it were actually to exist.

If an AD is selling direct to a grey, they are certainly not going to raise an invoice to that grey.

What you are seeing is a grey who has just been sold a watch picked up and flipped by a customer the same day. the invoice is to the customer, not the grey.

The assumption this is evidence of back door selling is wring on so many levels.

[928ktgold]

Edit

[Vanyo]

I can share a real story related to an official Rolex AD in Kiev, Ukraine. It’s called Royal Time, and you can easily check its status on the official Rolex page.

I wanted to buy my first Rolex in 2018. I wasn’t into watches at that moment and wanted a SS Submariner. I went to a local AD in Amsterdam and was told that I would need to wait 3-6 months. This seemed completely strange to me. Previously, if I wanted to buy a luxury item, I just bought it. I left the store and forgot about the watch until mid-2020. Considering that I’m a very frequent flyer and travel a lot through Amsterdam and Munich, where AD stores are present in the airports, I started asking for a SS Submariner each time. All of my attempts, maybe a hundred, were unsuccessful. After reading this forum and watching some YouTube videos, I understood why. I also realized that my desire to have a SS Rolex came at the wrong time.

I changed my strategy and approached several ADs in EU countries where I work. I tried a lot of models but liked the 41mm OP with black and blue dials the most. As I was searching for an optimal everyday watch, the OP, which only comes in SS, seemed like a perfect entry-level watch. However, nothing was available for me. I also rejected direct offers from two EU ADs to buy women’s watches and Messika jewelry to build a purchase history.

In spring 2021, I was landing in Kiev and realized I had completely forgotten about the AD in my former hometown. Once I landed, I called Royal Time, and it turned out they had SS OP 41 (black and Champagne), SS SeaDweller 43, SS SeaDweller 44 James Cameron, and tons of PP and TT models available. All this information was provided to me over the phone! I went to the boutique right from the airport and was surprised to find that: (i) their terminal for card payments was permanently not working, and they only accepted cash in UAH, USD, and EUR (which is completely illegal), and (ii) the prices for the watches were similar to those from grey dealers.

Despite my general frustration, I considered that buying from an AD at a grey market price was better than buying from a grey dealer. So, I visited several ATMs, withdrew the cash, and bought my first Rolex, an SS OP 41 with a black dial.

When my friends have trouble buying Rolex watches—usually after seeing many on my wrist and talking to me about them—and I don’t have time to help them, I send them to this AD. The last purchase was made several months ago by my Ukrainian colleague, who bought an SS Submariner from them.

To end my story on positives, yesterday, on my way to Mauritius I got a wonderful OP41 with green dial. This was a walk in purchase in airport with AD with which I had some reasonable purchase history.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Deppe

I picked up a Rolex with my local grey, and they told me that they knew the guy who sold it to them - he buys a shit ton of watches, IWC’s, JLC’s all that kind of stuff. Rolex does not do anything for him, so when he gets allocated a desirable SS Rolex, he sells it to help finance the other watches.

Also, they told me that sometimes they have guys calling them, saying that they are on the way to the AD to pick up a SS Rolex, and how much they will pay.

So while it is annoying that there is nothing for sale, these pictures are not nessecarily proof, that they are selling out the back door.

Well who's fault is that most certainly not Rolex today to many Rolex watches have become little more than ££$$€€ object things and little more.And many today have been brainwashed into thinking you must have a so called relationships with a AD and spend a zillion to become a VIP so called buyer.So do these so called relationship VIP buyers buy then sell to the grey for profit as greys seem to have most all models at crazy prices. And while Rolex watches trend to be quick exchange ££$$€€ object's the trend will continue and who's fault is that the buyers who are willing to pay silly money at greys for a mass produced watch.

[dandy]

Originally Posted by NAUI1982

I’ve been on the list at this AD for a very very long time. I stop by and see my SA pretty regularly, and there is NEVER anything available. I email with her too, trading updates and stories to keep the conversation going. I never get the call, and never hear from them aside from my stopping by when driving through the neighborhood.

Now I know why. Because they’re selling their inventory out the back door to the grey market and not to us, the end consumer.

The system is broken! And it’s ADs like this that give the entire system a bad rep.

Will Rolex do anything about it, nope. This AD is one of the biggest in Los Angeles.

Despite of what everyone is saying in this forum, I have witnessed the same: AD selling at a premium and I have bought from them directly at a permium so i dont care what others who defend the ADs say, as not all ADs are same.
Also, it is a fact that many AD are selling auctions and resellers and several time i have witnessed this as the auction seller was dumb enough to show the warranty card with the code number of the AD on it in public (before the changed the warranty card )

the rumor part which i am not surprised if its true, actualy i believe it is true with the some ADs: AD are still recieving big quantities but they are only allocating few pieces to collectors and people on the list while the the majority goes to grey market dealers who already paid in advance a big amount for a big shipment

[subtona]

Originally Posted by massabee

The AD has to sell at MSRP.

So,

What is the benefit to the AD unless it is a model it can't sell? On higher demand models the AD would just as soon sell to regular people I am sure versus flippers. But what does a flipper look like anyway, does he have three arms or three eyes stands out easily?

And if it is a lower demand model the AD can't sell like Datejusts or two tones what do you care who buys it?

Kickbacks

[dandy]

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

This is very very very old news. Has been happening since (at least) 2019.

agree

[brandrea]

No Daytona

[Yobber76]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

ADs are not allowed to sell Rolex watches above MSRP. It is generally understood that ADs who sell through the back door to grey market dealers are doing so at grey market prices. That Pepsi you see offered for $20,950 by the grey market dealer may have been sold by the AD to this dealer for over $18,000 instead of the $10,900 retail price. That is against Rolex policy, and is just downright unethical

I agree .
However, I seem to recall a Chicago area AD getting caught in a back door scandal when an employee went public. Don't remember the details, I think they were selling to greys above MSRP, or getting kickbacks, but that AD still sells Rolex and just opened a mega store.

[GMTmatt]

Originally Posted by Yobber76

I agree .
However, I seem to recall a Chicago area AD getting caught in a back door scandal when an employee went public. Don't remember the details, I think they were selling to greys above MSRP, or getting kickbacks, but that AD still sells Rolex and just opened a mega store.

Yup, the mega store is sweet. This AD lost PP in the past year or so.

[nGage7962]

I am pretty sure that most, if not all of them are doing this.
I bought a TT DJ-41 Grey, then a while later after putting my name down at all of the local dealerships, I bought my wife a TT DJ-31 Grey. A few days later a Dealer called and said they had a watch for her. My wife went and bought that too, and the grey dealer was there at the AD collecting another watch directly from them. My wife and the grey dealer pretended not to know each other.

The system is very broken.

[1William]

Interesting post and opinions. Not an issue for me either way as I will find, negotiate and buy the watches I want and can afford from reputable sources.

[dandy]

Originally Posted by Vanyo

I can share a real story related to an official Rolex AD in Kiev, Ukraine. It’s called Royal Time, and you can easily check its status on the official Rolex page.

I wanted to buy my first Rolex in 2018. I wasn’t into watches at that moment and wanted a SS Submariner. I went to a local AD in Amsterdam and was told that I would need to wait 3-6 months. This seemed completely strange to me. Previously, if I wanted to buy a luxury item, I just bought it. I left the store and forgot about the watch until mid-2020. Considering that I’m a very frequent flyer and travel a lot through Amsterdam and Munich, where AD stores are present in the airports, I started asking for a SS Submariner each time. All of my attempts, maybe a hundred, were unsuccessful. After reading this forum and watching some YouTube videos, I understood why. I also realized that my desire to have a SS Rolex came at the wrong time.

I changed my strategy and approached several ADs in EU countries where I work. I tried a lot of models but liked the 41mm OP with black and blue dials the most. As I was searching for an optimal everyday watch, the OP, which only comes in SS, seemed like a perfect entry-level watch. However, nothing was available for me. I also rejected direct offers from two EU ADs to buy women’s watches and Messika jewelry to build a purchase history.

In spring 2021, I was landing in Kiev and realized I had completely forgotten about the AD in my former hometown. Once I landed, I called Royal Time, and it turned out they had SS OP 41 (black and Champagne), SS SeaDweller 43, SS SeaDweller 44 James Cameron, and tons of PP and TT models available. All this information was provided to me over the phone! I went to the boutique right from the airport and was surprised to find that: (i) their terminal for card payments was permanently not working, and they only accepted cash in UAH, USD, and EUR (which is completely illegal), and (ii) the prices for the watches were similar to those from grey dealers.

Despite my general frustration, I considered that buying from an AD at a grey market price was better than buying from a grey dealer. So, I visited several ATMs, withdrew the cash, and bought my first Rolex, an SS OP 41 with a black dial.

When my friends have trouble buying Rolex watches—usually after seeing many on my wrist and talking to me about them—and I don’t have time to help them, I send them to this AD. The last purchase was made several months ago by my Ukrainian colleague, who bought an SS Submariner from them.

To end my story on positives, yesterday, on my way to Mauritius I got a wonderful OP41 with green dial. This was a walk in purchase in airport with AD with which I had some reasonable purchase history.

congratulation that is the most verastile OP, may i ask if it was readily available or reserved for VIP customers?

[njlam]

I am seeing greys offer PM, less sought after models with recent warranty cards below MSRP. The only way this works is if they buy bundles from the ADs...the greys maximize profits by selling sought after models way above MSRP and limit their losses by selling the less sought after models slightly below MSRP.

This way the ADs don't have to try to sell the hard to sell models (lazy).

I think this is more the norm than the flippers. Better to go with regular large bundles than the singular flipper.

Those who continue not to believe this happens (regularly) probably also believed Biden was "better than ever" (a month before he pulled out of the race...)

[Vanyo]

Originally Posted by dandy

congratulation that is the most verastile OP, may i ask if it was readily available or reserved for VIP customers?

Thank you! It looks superb with casual wear and in sunny weather.

I’m definitely not a VIP with that AD. USD equivalent of my spendings before the OP purchase was around 20k. I was genuine regarding green dial as this was my first try of OP with such dial combination and SA, I believe, saw my real interest.

[Jake Sully]

I am not a big AD fan and have been going grey for 40+ years. However with that being said an AD is a business and in the old days they had to discount watches to move them. Since its turned around they are more in the driver seat and to think they would take money off the table is foolish. It goes in cycles and if your patient (I'm not) the AD route may be for you. But dont hate the player, hate the game.

[Emery]

Regular customer picks up watch from AD and brings it to reseller on the same day.
Reseller sells it within an hour because it looks like they price their stock well.
Reseller obviously redacts personal info from the invoice before passing on to new buyer.

Meanwhile, TS is salty about what I don’t know.

Besides, don’t US ADs date their cards MM/DD/YY?

[Barada7]

You can’t lose if you don’t play.

Maybe Rolex is permissive for the moment because they’re riding a wave.

[1st amg]

Why don't you send an email to the Rolex Rep in the area? Ruffle some feathers for the heck of it.

[massabee]

Originally Posted by massabee

The AD has to sell at MSRP.

So,

What is the benefit to the AD unless it is a model it can't sell? On higher demand models the AD would just as soon sell to regular people I am sure versus flippers. But what does a flipper look like anyway, does he have three arms or three eyes stands out easily?

And if it is a lower demand model the AD can't sell like Datejusts or two tones what do you care who buys it?

Originally Posted by subtona

Kickbacks

The AD can't report sales above MSRP, so now we're talking about tax evasion and a criminal conspiracy to hide the sales so they aren't reported in any way?

More likely is just a bunch of sore potential buyers getting shut out by others who buy more and more regularly, and hatching up conspiracy theories.

This sort of thing (kickbacks) probably has happened but to assume it happens regularly seems to be going too far.

[Calatrava r]

Those photos really show nothing to me as to who is selling. As stated, this could be people flipping watches they just bought and the more stuff from the AD they show adds legitimacy to their sale in their minds. No AD, in the US, would do anything blatant in selling watches against Rolex policy. Sales by ADs to people/dealers for more money than MSRP may happen, but you can be sure if ADs do it, they will cover their tracks.