A 5513 I am considering

[Texasjim]

If a watch is relumed / stabilized lume does it truly kill the value? (If done professionally). Sometimes the original owner did this before it was fashionable to keep it all in original spec. How does one say what’s honest watch or not if it has all the OEM parts? I have a 6205 with a service dial that’s still over 50 years old…is this a honest watch? We, including myself, sometimes get wrapped up in the minutia of in the details of a honest watch. Buy what you like, pay what you want, enjoy what you will.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Texasjim

If a watch is relumed / stabilized lume does it truly kill the value? (If done professionally). Sometimes the original owner did this before it was fashionable to keep it all in original spec. How does one say what’s honest watch or not if it has all the OEM parts? I have a 6205 with a service dial that’s still over 50 years old…is this a honest watch? We, including myself, sometimes get wrapped up in the minutia of in the details of a honest watch. Buy what you like, pay what you want, enjoy what you will.

I don't know what you think "honest" means, it seems like a vague and useless term in this context. If you are happy with a relumed dial or a service dial, then that's obviously your choice. Nobody is criticizing an owner for making those choices. But they definitely affect collectible value. Obviously you don't like to hear that, but it's a fact.

[Texasjim]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I don't know what you think "honest" means, it seems like a vague and useless term in this context. If you are happy with a relumed dial or a service dial, then that's obviously your choice. Nobody is criticizing an owner for making those choices. But they definitely affect collectible value. Obviously you don't like to hear that, but it's a fact.

Hi Dan, What I like to hear or not you know little about. I do agree with you about value and originality, the point I am trying to make is sometimes folks dogpile on the flaws or perceived flaws of a particular watch not completely understanding most all of these watches have some type of altered, repaired, services, buffed, etc condition. Never thought the term “Honest” would be vague or useless. Cheers amigo…I mean no disrespect.
Jim

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Texasjim

Hi Dan, What I like to hear or not you know little about. I do agree with you about value and originality, the point I am trying to make is sometimes folks dogpile on the flaws or perceived flaws of a particular watch not completely understanding most all of these watches have some type of altered, repaired, services, buffed, etc condition. Never thought the term “Honest” would be vague or useless. Cheers amigo…I mean no disrespect.
Jim

I never suggested you were disrespectful, but I still don't know what you mean by "honest." It mainly seems to be a term that dealers use to describe a watch that is in rough condition. Obviously you don't mean "all-original," which is how some people use the term. Perhaps you mean "one owner," "authentic?" I truly don't know. Why not be more specific about what you mean?

Anyway, in contrast with your claim, I think we all understand very well that the vast majority of vintage watches are not in good, original condition. In fact, that is exactly why we hunt patiently for the good ones, and value them highly.

For some reason, you just don't seem to like it when members point out condition issues in watches posted to the forum, but that is exactly what people are asking for ... an honest evaluation. Then they can decide if they are happy with the watch and the price.

[springer]

Those vintage tritium watch hands - we're talking 50, 60, 70 and older hands, were never expected to last forever. The tritium is expected to be functional for only a couple decades which is why hands have been replaced in so many of the vintage models - replaced with either newer tritium or luminova hands or relumed or stabilized. With this being said, collectors have looked at alternatives to protect and keep their tritium hands original as much as possible.

Some of the alternatives in keeping the vintage watch vintage when the hands start to have tritium or corrosion issues is to replace the hands, stabilizing the hands on the back side to preserve the original tritium from cracking or falling out or reluming and/or color matching the hands to match the dial markers.

Personally, I believe that eventually, there will only be two types of hands found in many vintage models and that would be those that have been relumed and/or repaired and those hands that will be relumed/repaired. Again, as I mentioned earlier, these hands were never meant to last for countless, endless decades of use.

As far as repairs affecting the value for vintage models, it will, but not significantly. There are those purists that believe everything has to be 100% original in a vintage watch, but, there are many more that understand that keeping these vintage models functional will require some repairs during decades of use which will include replacement or repaired parts - to include the hands where the tritium lume will become very fragile after several decades.

At this time in the collector market, original hands do add some value to a vintage model, but, as time progresses, I see a point where collectors will worry more about the hands themselves being original and worry less about whether the hand lume is original since the tritium is no longer functional. The best scenario for me would be to stabilize tritium hands before they begin to fully corrode and lose its tritium.

The value difference I speak of is determined by each individual collector when comparing original tritium hands to relumed, exchanged or stabilized hands.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Texasjim

Hi Dan, What I like to hear or not you know little about. I do agree with you about value and originality, the point I am trying to make is sometimes folks dogpile on the flaws or perceived flaws of a particular watch not completely understanding most all of these watches have some type of altered, repaired, services, buffed, etc condition. Never thought the term “Honest” would be vague or useless. Cheers amigo…I mean no disrespect.
Jim

Hello fellow Texasn,

I can't say that I would agree with the highlighted comment in your statement about "dog-piling." Many posts in the Vintage sub forum are from members seeking out honest opinions on a particular watch that they might be interested in purchasing. Many of these solicited opinions are not positive but, instead, are honest opinions for which the member is soliciting.

jP

[baumare]

I can only agree regarding the approach people have on this Forum, if I post a watch to share my new acquisition I can expect compliments, but if I post asking for comments on originality and condition I'm expecting a "dogpile" of comments on the flaws, so that I can be able to evaluate the pro and cons based on my personal preference.

[Kingcobb]

As the person who originally posted the watch I had a concern or two about the dial but had read good things about the seller.

The complete honesty about the concerns on this watch was greatly appreciated and was exactly why I posted it.

I personally have no issue with repairs/service/etc if they are disclosed and the price reflects it.

Currently still looking and debating if a late model 5513 or early 14060 is different enough from my 124 sub. Also looking at a 8.3 serial 166600 and there is that 1968 5513 with Mk 2 service dial and hands.....decisions decisions lol

[LateLearner]

I’m not opposed to service parts or reluming original or correct hands/dial. I’m not a collector, so YMMV.

Glad to read the OP moved on. The bottom of the 12 o’clock marker would bother me every time I looked.


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[prk154]

Experts, I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread or piggy back on this one. However, I've been on the hunt for a nice, original, clean 5513 for some time now and I came across the link below. I share the sentiment that has been voiced here...that I don't know what I don't know. So any input would be appreciated!

https://mctimepieces.com/products/ro...um-oyster-5513

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by prk154

Experts, I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread or piggy back on this one. However, I've been on the hunt for a nice, original, clean 5513 for some time now and I came across the link below. I share the sentiment that has been voiced here...that I don't know what I don't know. So any input would be appreciated!

https://mctimepieces.com/products/ro...um-oyster-5513

I would suggest starting your own thread instead of hijacking this one. And if you can post the photos directly, you will probably get more engagement.

[AJMarcus]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Agreed. All you people should stay away from vintage watches. Except when I am selling something.

Keep us posted.