Price of gold is sky high

[East of Eden]

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

in Dollar terms - sure. But Gold has been going down in real-value terms for a decade. If not more. It should be worth much more than it's current valuation imo.

Up 29% the last year, in the early 2000s and there was a long stretch when gold beat Warren Buffet. It’s a pretty main stream position to have some of your assets in PMs.

[Masteryacht]

“For the last 24 years, the S&P 500, with dividends reinvested, has risen by 572%.

Gold is up 990% for the same period with much less volatility.

Gold ownership is like a hidden, well-guarded secret. Very few, not even professional investors, know that gold has gone up 1,000% or 11X in this century.

Still, very few own gold, and even fewer are aware that gold fulfils the dual function of being both the ultimate protector and ultimate enhancer of your wealth.

If you own gold, you never have to worry about the price. Because on your side stand governments and central banks who will always support gold by creating an endless amount of new money, thus expanding debt and the money supply. This guarantees the continuous debasement of paper money, directly reflected in the gold price.”

“Gold is money, everything else is credit.” JP Morgan

[East of Eden]

Originally Posted by Masteryacht

“For the last 24 years, the S&P 500, with dividends reinvested, has risen by 572%.

Gold is up 990% for the same period with much less volatility.

Gold ownership is like a hidden, well-guarded secret. Very few, not even professional investors, know that gold has gone up 1,000% or 11X in this century.

Still, very few own gold, and even fewer are aware that gold fulfils the dual function of being both the ultimate protector and ultimate enhancer of your wealth.

If you own gold, you never have to worry about the price. Because on your side stand governments and central banks who will always support gold by creating an endless amount of new money, thus expanding debt and the money supply. This guarantees the continuous debasement of paper money, directly reflected in the gold price.”

“Gold is money, everything else is credit.” JP Morgan

Very true, your friendly financial advisor won’t tell you, he makes nothing when you buy gold. The Founders were opposed to paper money, considering it a giant swindle. Gold has always and everywhere been highly valued, and has never been worth nothing, unlike many stocks and fiat currencies.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by Masteryacht

“For the last 24 years, the S&P 500, with dividends reinvested, has risen by 572%.

Gold is up 990% for the same period with much less volatility.

Gold ownership is like a hidden, well-guarded secret. Very few, not even professional investors, know that gold has gone up 1,000% or 11X in this century.

Still, very few own gold, and even fewer are aware that gold fulfils the dual function of being both the ultimate protector and ultimate enhancer of your wealth.

If you own gold, you never have to worry about the price. Because on your side stand governments and central banks who will always support gold by creating an endless amount of new money, thus expanding debt and the money supply. This guarantees the continuous debasement of paper money, directly reflected in the gold price.”

“Gold is money, everything else is credit.” JP Morgan

just to provide some stats (these won't include reinvesting dividends) :

gold dropped 22% during an extremely brutal bear market in 2022 while the s&p dropped 27%, barely much of a difference. since both bottoms the s&p has outperformed it 72% to 61%

it did hold up better in 2008 and the few weeks when banks were collapsing in 2023 though, but if you bought the top of the s&p in 2007 you still outperformed gold 280% to 230% in that same time, and 771% to 260% from both bottoms in 2008

so for many people investing with a 20-30 year outlook (i say 20-30 years because you brought up 24), there's no point in doing anything other than the S&P, and diversifying into gold just gives them a reason to worry about macroeconomics or geopolitical issues. i get the need to diversify when you're wealthy because you can't just have everything in an index or stocks but gold isn't really a wealth protector these days outside of black swan events like the covid crash, and on the upside it never outperforms the S&P

also saying 24 years ago kinda implies buying the top of the dot com bubble no?

[Masteryacht]

It was just an article I saw that I thought was interesting. I wouldn’t have guessed gold did so well during a time frame the Dow quadrupled.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by Masteryacht

It was just an article I saw that I thought was interesting. I wouldn’t have guessed gold did so well during a time frame the Dow quadrupled.

well to be fair, i didn't think it went up that much either lol. but also think it's really surprising that the S&P holds up just as well as the one asset everyone considers a wealth protector, even during record inflation

in reality i think the only way to protect your wealth is through real estate

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I’m buying bananas and duct tape.

They’re worth WAY more than gold

Now that is funny.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GusFring]

107g of 18kt in a 36mm daydate for reference which works out roughly $6,400

[Krash]

Originally Posted by East of Eden

Very true, your friendly financial advisor won’t tell you, he makes nothing when you buy gold. The Founders were opposed to paper money, considering it a giant swindle. Gold has always and everywhere been highly valued, and has never been worth nothing, unlike many stocks and fiat currencies.

Actually, my financial advisor has me heavily invested in the stock market, but through the years, he has advised me to buy gold bars. Real gold, hard assets as he described, not an ETF. I was interested, but always perceived it to be a logistical challenge.

Where do I get it, how do I transport it, where do I store it??? I didn’t want it shipped, but never did any in-depth research into it anyway to be totally honest.

I know Costco recently started selling it, but they have significant limits in terms of how much you can buy to the point where it’s not even worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jari from Finland]

I have paid attention that some sort of hype comes every now and then as to comes models, metals, colors and so on. Probably the time for gold watches is coming now.

[East of Eden]

Originally Posted by Krash

Actually, my financial advisor has me heavily invested in the stock market, but through the years, he has advised me to buy gold bars. Real gold, hard assets as he described, not an ETF. I was interested, but always perceived it to be a logistical challenge.

Where do I get it, how do I transport it, where do I store it??? I didn’t want it shipped, but never did any in-depth research into it anyway to be totally honest.

I know Costco recently started selling it, but they have significant limits in terms of how much you can buy to the point where it’s not even worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He’s right, physical, not ETFs is the way to go. I’ve bought quite a bit from Apmex, no tax if over a $500 purchase I believe. If you don’t want it shipped any local coin store will sell what you want, or buy it back. Gold is very liquid.

You can store $1,000,000 in gold in an average sized safety deposit box.

[East of Eden]

Delete

[East of Eden]

Originally Posted by huncho

well to be fair, i didn't think it went up that much either lol. but also think it's really surprising that the S&P holds up just as well as the one asset everyone considers a wealth protector, even during record inflation

in reality i think the only way to protect your wealth is through real estate

I’m not sure holders of office or retail real estate today would agree with that. Nobody knows which way will turn out best, which is why I’m diversified with real estate, gold, and the S&P.

[wm82]

Right now platinum and silver are very cheap relative to gold. I just bought some from www.jmbullion.com , especially the lunar calendar series is a favourite of mine.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by East of Eden

I’m not sure holders of office or retail real estate today would agree with that. Nobody knows which way will turn out best, which is why I’m diversified with real estate, gold, and the S&P.

One of my friends is heavily invested in real estate. He also gets income from renting properties out. I took a different track. I picked the stock market. If I had to guess, I would say that over the last thirty years or so, I’m probably ahead. I don’t know that for sure, but I know the properties he has, and I know what he’s getting in terms of rent. Plus, I’m undoubtedly more liquid, and have a lot less headaches than he does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[East of Eden]

Originally Posted by wm82

Right now platinum and silver are very cheap relative to gold. I just bought some from www.jmbullion.com , especially the lunar calendar series is a favourite of mine.

Very hard to store a lot of silver, $1M worth is roughly 1,750 lbs.

[East of Eden]

Originally Posted by Krash

One of my friends is heavily invested in real estate. He also gets income from renting properties out. I took a different track. I picked the stock market. If I had to guess, I would say that over the last thirty years or so, I’m probably ahead. I don’t know that for sure, but I know the properties he has, and I know what he’s getting in terms of rent. Plus, I’m undoubtedly more liquid, and have a lot less headaches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

More liquid and less headaches yes, but are you only comparing your stock returns with his rental income? His rental properties are worth waay more today than 30 years ago, and he gets to take depreciation expense to offset his taxes on an asset that is appreciating. Strategies like cost segregation put that depreciation on steroids. If he qualifies as a real estate professional which he probably does his property depreciation expense can offset any W2 income from he and his wife if married filing jointly.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by East of Eden

More liquid and less headaches yes, but are you only comparing your stock returns with his rental income? His rental properties are worth waay more today than 30 years ago, and he gets to take depreciation expense to offset his taxes on an asset that is appreciating. Strategies like cost segregation put that depreciation on steroids. If he qualifies as a real estate professional which he probably does his property depreciation expense can offset any W2 income from he and his wife if married filing jointly.

No, I’m comparing stock returns with the value of his properties. Again, I’m not sure. We never compare net worth. We’re definitely in the same ballpark, same lifestyle. That’s for sure. And in terms of liquidity, I’d rather be in my position. We do talk about that a lot. He often laments that all his wealth is tied up. He wants to sell some property off because of that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HogwldFLTR]

Gold and Sky, hmmm. what could this be about?

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Krash

No, I’m comparing stock returns with the value of his properties. Again, I’m not sure. We never compare net worth. We’re definitely in the same ballpark, same lifestyle. That’s for sure. And in terms of liquidity, I’d rather be in my position. We do talk about that a lot. He often laments that all his wealth is tied up. He wants to sell some property off because of that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds parallel to me and a friend of mine. He’s got that vast majority of his assets tied up in real estate. He’s done very well for himself. He’s a builder, so he has the advantage of having a company that can fix anything that’s broken.

Me, I’d rather own REIT’s and clip a dividend each month. I’ve looked at buying rental income property and for me, it just doesn’t make sense, but everyone’s situation is unique and different.

I don’t think one is necessarily better than the other but I agree with @east of eden in that a diversified approach is best. Some gold, some stocks, some real estate.

Last, I think for Joe average, if you own a home, you probably have enough real estate exposure

[East of Eden]

Originally Posted by Krash

No, I’m comparing stock returns with the value of his properties. Again, I’m not sure. We never compare net worth. We’re definitely in the same ballpark, same lifestyle. That’s for sure. And in terms of liquidity, I’d rather be in my position. We do talk about that a lot. He often laments that all his wealth is tied up. He wants to sell some property off because of that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m guessing due to his RE holdings he’s paid a lot less in income taxes than you the last 30 years.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by East of Eden

I’m guessing due to his RE holdings he’s paid a lot less in income taxes than you the last 30 years.

I wouldn’t doubt that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[codecow]

Originally Posted by Krash

Actually, my financial advisor has me heavily invested in the stock market, but through the years, he has advised me to buy gold bars. Real gold, hard assets as he described, not an ETF. I was interested, but always perceived it to be a logistical challenge.

Where do I get it, how do I transport it, where do I store it??? I didn’t want it shipped, but never did any in-depth research into it anyway to be totally honest.

I know Costco recently started selling it, but they have significant limits in terms of how much you can buy to the point where it’s not even worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You collect it and accumulate it over time and store in one or more bank safes. I don’t do this but I have family that has done it and over a period of several years managed to accumulate a decent position.

[BraveBold]

None of the following is investment advice, just musings.

At different points in history different assets or asset classes can claim having been the “right choice” through cherry picking time frames. There is also no “right” answer for everyone. Over extended time frames to today, 100% equity wins. So for the immortals among us, easy choice. For those with exceptional net worths (high 8 to 9+ figures) you may be best suited by a 90/10 approach (Buffett’s recommendation for his wife, who even after charitable giveaways would be in that category), with 10 being a bond mix.

Otherwise my opinion (highly informed as it is, still just an opinion) is to diversify and tailor the specific mix to a host of factors, including age. Most financial advisors are not really savvy enough - just the reality of things - to do this correctly. So there are many who get burned when things turn south…

As for gold, I first invested in 1999 and then cashed out for graduate school (to fund). But I make sure to keep a position - and well aware of returns over selected time frames. I do recall with amusement my discussion with my mentor (a Yale econ PhD who I ghost wrote papers for while in college), re: my gold holdings. How it was a mistake on my part given it is a non-productive asset, etc. I believe gold was around $320/oz at that time. There are many opinions on portfolio mix, many updated studies on optimal balances, and so on… but simplifying it - there are mental and financial yields, and sacrificing a bit on either side may make sense.

[Kinnakeet]

Originally Posted by Krash

Actually, my financial advisor has me heavily invested in the stock market, but through the years, he has advised me to buy gold bars. Real gold, hard assets as he described, not an ETF. I was interested, but always perceived it to be a logistical challenge.

Where do I get it, how do I transport it, where do I store it??? I didn’t want it shipped, but never did any in-depth research into it anyway to be totally honest.

I know Costco recently started selling it, but they have significant limits in terms of how much you can buy to the point where it’s not even worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For me precious metals is mostly something I enjoy. It’s easy to purchase, there are probably 2 or 3 places with in a short drive from you. Storage is not a problem for gold. Ounce bars are good. I like 1 ounce eagles and maple leafs. Avoid Krugarrands. It’s easy to catch gold fever. Also, pre 1933 gold coins can be a very good buy once you learn what to look for. The right ones can be purchased for very close to gold spot.

If it’s something you are interested in I would recommend starting with some silver, get opinions and learn from that. One thing I have learned is that in the US I will no longer buy silver maples ( I will in Canada) or the European silver 1 oz coins. Only generic rounds or eagles. Also filling tubes of Franklin and Kennedy halves in 90% silver can be fun.

[mpkRolex]

Originally Posted by robbrum

The price of gold is sky high on the moment.

Intresting to know what will be the next price increase of Rolex???


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

5 - 7% up every year for the next 4 years at least.

[enjoythemusic]

Be a bankster, or a middleman for transactions and take a small bite of each transaction (i.e. Visa, MasterCard, PayPal, BTC tumbler / mixer, etc).

[4reRlxGuy]

Originally Posted by East of Eden

Very hard to store a lot of silver, $1M worth is roughly 1,750 lbs.

This

[EverCloserUnion]

Originally Posted by Kinnakeet

Avoid Krugarrands.

Genuine question from someone who's been thinking of buying gold - is there a reason to avoid Krugarrands?

[Kinnakeet]

Originally Posted by EverCloserUnion

Genuine question from someone who's been thinking of buying gold - is there a reason to avoid Krugarrands?

In North America many dealers won’t buy them back or will pay much less than spot. They just aren’t desirable.