32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[Smobews]

Originally Posted by amanbra

This isn’t true. The 4130 it’s only got one barrel and keeps time very well over the bulk of the pr.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you provide your findings for us. It would be interesting to compare to 32xx.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by amanbra

This isn’t true. The 4130 it’s only got one barrel and keeps time very well over the bulk of the pr.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is why we are tracking amplitude and instantaneous seconds per day, to get a more precise picture. As you can see in my 72 hour PR test (https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...&postcount=427) at the end of the run (71 hours) I was within 2 seconds of the atomic clock. After 48 hours I was 4 seconds ahead, then over the last 23 hours the watch slowed more and more and ended at 2 seconds slow. Looking at the timekeeping alone one could say it was "near perfect" the whole way. But looking at s/d and amplitude along the way we see there were big changes towards the end. For example, at hour 68 it was losing 16 s/d, at 70 hours it was losing 40 s/d. In dial up performance, it was pretty stellar until the final few hours. Of course the real world presents more than one position. I believe due to my excessively low amplitude, any vertical positions were bad from hour 60 onward (amplitude was in the 120s and was losing 15 to 20 s/d at that point). If my watch had vertical performance more on par with the horizontal, the results would indeed be incredible. And I think that is the result the 32xx design should produce once sorted. In the meantime, it might be a bit hit or miss. On the other hand, if one stays active, wears the watch daily, and keeps the PR topped off, you might never drift into the part of the range where this matters.

[Lol-x]

Do you think that one needs to buy an expensive timegrapher to get accurate results or would a $100 unit yield the same results?

Maybe the daily error is just a function of some other timing variation and not the Rolex movement.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Do you think that one needs to buy an expensive timegrapher to get accurate results or would a $100 unit yield the same results?

Maybe the daily error is just a function of some other timing variation and not the Rolex movement.

I have actually searched for any evidence that a cheap timegrapher produces untrustworthy results but I haven't been able to find that. I think that the reality is a watch is moving in super slow motion compared to even the most modest integrated circuit. If you've got a processor "ticking" at even 1MHz that is so far beyond a watch at 5Hz it's hard to imagine it not being able to track things precisely. As well, just doing a sanity comparison test, I get higher amplitudes from all my other watches (even a vintage 1675) than I do on the new Sub so this too makes me feel more confident it's not just outputting junk/random numbers. I think what the $2000 timegraphers buy you are the fancier features like letting you zoom in on the waveform captured by the mic to literally see problems in one part of the beat pattern versus another. The simple sec/day check and even the amplitude measurement, seem to be achievable by all hardware.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Smobews

Can you provide your findings for us. It would be interesting to compare to 32xx.

Hey I’m. Not in a position to do this anytime soon partly because I’m wearing the watch but secondly because of life.

Here is the graph of my new op36 3230 one time where I wore the watch for 3 days straight and then checked the time as the pr ran out. You can see it ran a tad fast towards the end and then fall right off a cliff towards the end of the PR which is a trait I see for all my watches that are running well. This is what happens with my nomos lambda omega 8500 etc and as you can see the new Rolex movement.

The thing is when the amp issue hits the graph is totally different.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Hey I’m. Not in a position to do this anytime soon partly because I’m wearing the watch but secondly because of life.

Here is the graph of my new op36 3230 one time where I wore the watch for 3 days straight and then checked the time as the pr ran out. You can see it ran a tad fast towards the end and then fall right off a cliff towards the end of the PR which is a trait I see for all my watches that are running well. This is what happens with my nomos lambda omega 8500 etc and as you can see the new Rolex movement.

The thing is when the amp issue hits the graph is totally different.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So, to make this easy enough even a Dorklehead like me could understand...

Is this suggesting that all automatic watches, when they reach a certain point in their power reserve the amplitude (and therefore accuracy) fall off dramatically? And therefore the results showing the 3235 amplitude falling after 48ish hours of use/wind is not unexpected?

Serious question, I’m trying to understand everything here and if I’m way off please set me straight.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

So, to make this easy enough even a Dorklehead like me could understand...

Is this suggesting that all automatic watches, when they reach a certain point in their power reserve the amplitude (and therefore accuracy) fall off dramatically? And therefore the results showing the 3235 amplitude falling after 48ish hours of use/wind is not unexpected?

Serious question, I’m trying to understand everything here and if I’m way off please set me straight.

Hey yes this is what I've noticed even in my Lambda and Omega which are double barrel.

So what i've noticed is for normal watches which are running properly, as the main spring power starts to drop a bit the amplitude drops and the oscillation actually gets quicker for that period. Then right at the end of the PR it slows right down. So when I put my OP36 on the timegrapher at the 69 hour mark it was actually at like -70s per day before it completely ran out.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Hey yes this is what I've noticed even in my Lambda and Omega which are double barrel.

So what i've noticed is for normal watches which are running properly, as the main spring power starts to drop a bit the amplitude drops and the oscillation actually gets quicker for that period. Then right at the end of the PR it slows right down. So when I put my OP36 on the timegrapher at the 69 hour mark it was actually at like -70s per day before it completely ran out.

Thanks, and this makes sense. If 3235 owners ( I am one by the way) are upset because their watches will not hold accuracy throughout their power reserve, that is understandable, but doesn’t mean the movement itself is a failure.

Mine runs consistently- 1.4 seconds a day. I wear it all the time so it rarely loses power reserve down to less then 24 hours (I’m guessing) and I can live with an automatic watch that has that accuracy; so I really have no issues. I guess this is what PADI is referring to when he posts this is much ado about nothing and there are more important things in life to be concerned about; (didn’t mean to paraphrase you PADI).

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Thanks, and this makes sense. If 3235 owners ( I am one by the way) are upset because their watches will not hold accuracy throughout their power reserve, that is understandable, but doesn’t mean the movement itself is a failure.

Mine runs consistently- 1.4 seconds a day. I wear it all the time so it rarely loses power reserve down to less then 24 hours (I’m guessing) and I can live with an automatic watch that has that accuracy; so I really have no issues. I guess this is what PADI is referring to when he posts this is much ado about nothing and there are more important things in life to be concerned about; (didn’t mean to paraphrase you PADI).

Yeah so with problem movements what I've seenin my DJ36 is it starts off slow and then the SPD just keeps going more and more negative as the PR runs down.

Do you see this?

For me this is a dead set give away there is something wrong.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Yeah so with problem movements what I've seenin my DJ36 is it starts off slow and then the SPD just keeps going more and more negative as the PR runs down.

Do you see this?

For me this is a dead set give away there is something wrong.

That does sound concerning. My watch is only three months old, and consistently is 1.4(ish) slow per day. The watchmaker at my AD showed me his readout and it was amplitude above 230 in all positions and accuracy of less then +-2 in all positions. I can’t complain at all.

Sure hope your situation gets worked out, good luck!

[Fuzzyme]

I would like to bring up a few points that have not been discussed on this thread yet.

You've all, kind of lost the point of buying an automatic watch.

The advantage here, is to have the watch completely wound within a few hours of waking up, and have it run at the amount of wind throughout the entire day, which keeps the timing of the watch to a constant all day long.

If the 32XX has an issue with timing differences according to different amplitudes (which has not been proven) having it run at around 270 degrees amplitude all day, surely make the watch maintain good timing throughout the day

We're talking about the watch potentially losing time during the night, when you put it down to sleep.

For most of us that maybe 7 hours a day.
If you find your watch gains or loses overnight.
Try this.

The watch has 5 other positions that it can run while set down.
Find the position that loses or gains nothing over night, and your problem is solved.
Or find the position where it catches up or loses what it has gained or lost during the day.

Next point I would like to bring up.
Most of us on this forum do not have Vibrographs to put our watches on.

I would like to know how people are actually timing their watches.
Is that an effective and accurate way to check the timing of your watch??

Last point.
Every 32XX watch that rolls out of the factory, has been sent to COSC for timing.
I'm not sure all of you understand that the movement is sent to COSC alone.
No automatic, no calendar mechanism, and a generic dial with only 3 hands.

The watch is wound completely by hand and left in the same position for the entire day.
Next day, wound by hand, and set aside for the entire day in that position.

Here we have no ability for the automatic to recharge the dying mainspring and the watch is left to it's own devices as the amplitude dies throughout the entire day.

And don't forget, every watch sold, has passed this process.

And then after assembly, the watch is put onto a secondary test , the Green Seal.

Search The Rolex Way, Tested to Extremes

Stringently tested after casing, not only for timing, waterproof as well. With dial and hands, cased and ready to go.

Are these checks not enough????????

[francis]

Originally Posted by Fuzzyme

I would like to bring up a few points that have not been discussed on this thread yet.

You've all, kind of lost the point of buying an automatic watch.

The advantage here, is to have the watch completely wound within a few hours of waking up, and have it run at the amount of wind throughout the entire day, which keeps the timing of the watch to a constant all day long.

If the 32XX has an issue with timing differences according to different amplitudes (which has not been proven) having it run at around 270 degrees amplitude all day, surely make the watch maintain good timing throughout the day

We're talking about the watch potentially losing time during the night, when you put it down to sleep.

For most of us that maybe 7 hours a day.
If you find your watch gains or loses overnight.
Try this.

The watch has 5 other positions that it can run while set down.
Find the position that loses or gains nothing over night, and your problem is solved.
Or find the position where it catches up or loses what it has gained or lost during the day.

Next point I would like to bring up.
Most of us on this forum do not have Vibrographs to put our watches on.

I would like to know how people are actually timing their watches.
Is that an effective and accurate way to check the timing of your watch??

Last point.
Every 32XX watch that rolls out of the factory, has been sent to COSC for timing.
I'm not sure all of you understand that the movement is sent to COSC alone.
No automatic, no calendar mechanism, and a generic dial with only 3 hands.

The watch is wound completely by hand and left in the same position for the entire day.
Next day, wound by hand, and set aside for the entire day in that position.

Here we have no ability for the automatic to recharge the dying mainspring and the watch is left to it's own devices as the amplitude dies throughout the entire day.

And don't forget, every watch sold, has passed this process.

And then after assembly, the watch is put onto a secondary test , the Green Seal.

Search The Rolex Way, Tested to Extremes

Stringently tested after casing, not only for timing, waterproof as well. With dial and hands, cased and ready to go.

Are these checks not enough????????

Well my 3235 was losing 30 seconds a day no matter the position so maybe they forgot to do all that stuff to mine?

[Fuzzyme]

Yes, your watch has a problem.
At 30 seconds a day, I would go so far as to say, perhaps something like a broken mainspring, or very low amplitude do to some other contributing factor.
If you bring it back, it should be an easy fix for them??
Is it under warrantee still?

[francis]

Originally Posted by Fuzzyme

Yes, your watch has a problem.
At 30 seconds a day, I would go so far as to say, perhaps something like a broken mainspring, or very low amplitude do to some other contributing factor.
If you bring it back, it should be an easy fix for them??
Is it under warrantee still?

Yes it is under warranty and I did send it back. It was having all the issues outlined in this thread. There was nothing broke in it. It runs fine now but some on here have said after a few months the problem starts again. It is a known issue with this newish movement..

[Fuzzyme]

Your watch is running fine????

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Fuzzyme

I would like to bring up a few points that have not been discussed on this thread yet.

You've all, kind of lost the point of buying an automatic watch.

The advantage here, is to have the watch completely wound within a few hours of waking up, and have it run at the amount of wind throughout the entire day, which keeps the timing of the watch to a constant all day long.

If the 32XX has an issue with timing differences according to different amplitudes (which has not been proven) having it run at around 270 degrees amplitude all day, surely make the watch maintain good timing throughout the day

We're talking about the watch potentially losing time during the night, when you put it down to sleep.

For most of us that maybe 7 hours a day.
If you find your watch gains or loses overnight.
Try this.

The watch has 5 other positions that it can run while set down.
Find the position that loses or gains nothing over night, and your problem is solved.
Or find the position where it catches up or loses what it has gained or lost during the day.

Next point I would like to bring up.
Most of us on this forum do not have Vibrographs to put our watches on.

I would like to know how people are actually timing their watches.
Is that an effective and accurate way to check the timing of your watch??

Last point.
Every 32XX watch that rolls out of the factory, has been sent to COSC for timing.
I'm not sure all of you understand that the movement is sent to COSC alone.
No automatic, no calendar mechanism, and a generic dial with only 3 hands.

The watch is wound completely by hand and left in the same position for the entire day.
Next day, wound by hand, and set aside for the entire day in that position.

Here we have no ability for the automatic to recharge the dying mainspring and the watch is left to it's own devices as the amplitude dies throughout the entire day.

And don't forget, every watch sold, has passed this process.

And then after assembly, the watch is put onto a secondary test , the Green Seal.

Search The Rolex Way, Tested to Extremes

Stringently tested after casing, not only for timing, waterproof as well. With dial and hands, cased and ready to go.

Are these checks not enough????????

Thank you for talking to us without fully understanding how this thread came to be while assuming we don't understand the basics.

[francis]

Originally Posted by Fuzzyme

Your watch is running fine????

Yes. Apparently they put a little spot of oil where they normally don’t to temporarily fix the problem...

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Fuzzyme

I would like to bring up a few points that have not been discussed on this thread yet.

...

Are these checks not enough????????

Originally Posted by Fuzzyme

Yes, your watch has a problem.
At 30 seconds a day, I would go so far as to say, perhaps something like a broken mainspring, or very low amplitude do to some other contributing factor.
If you bring it back, it should be an easy fix for them??
Is it under warrantee still?

It seems as though you have not actually gone through the info in this thread. If the topic interests you I would suggest going back through the posts and you will see the specific damage (including pictures) found. And the RSC watchmaker opinion that there is no long term fix at this time. And the reports of significant time loss appearing after months of previously great performance. And the reports of watches developing the problem a second or third time after official Rolex servicing. Etc. etc. Nobody here has ever suggested that the timing standards Rolex tests against at the factory are the issue here.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Mine runs consistently- 1.4 seconds a day. I wear it all the time so it rarely loses power reserve down to less then 24 hours (I’m guessing) and I can live with an automatic watch that has that accuracy; so I really have no issues. I guess this is what PADI is referring to when he posts this is much ado about nothing and there are more important things in life to be concerned about; (didn’t mean to paraphrase you PADI).

So if you have a car that runs fine when you are on the gas but dies when you let off at a stop sign, would you consider that a problem? You can just keep the rpms at 4000 while at the light and it'll never stall. All good? The point being, sure, certain behavioral patterns can hide/bandaid certain problems. But at the end of the day no watchmaker will claim that a pivot should be "grinding to dust" (Bas's words) nor that amplitude should be below 200 degrees only 12 hours after a full 80 rotation winding (this is my 126613's behavior). Honestly we're just at the beginning of this exploration. Nobody has put forth any meaningful description of a true fix for this problem. We have been told Rolex knows it's an issue, but their own watchmakers don't think their advised "fix" is actually a fix. Is Rolex 1 week away from a more permanent solution? 5 years? Will they launch a 33xx next year and just consider this 32xx a bust? Who knows.

On a related topic, I just received my copy of The Watch Book: Rolex by Brunner. So far it appears to be a great repository of trivia, ads, and photos. I just came across this blurb tonight which made me laugh:

"A wristwatch that one cannot rely on isn't worth owning" aptly describes how Hans Wilsdorf thought and acted. There was more than enough mediocre merchandise on the market. Others might have been satisfied with it, but not Wilsdorf. His priorities were reliability, unconditional precision and affordable prices. Only by offering all three could Rolex effectively combat the persistent skepticism about timepieces that were strapped prominently around the wrist. Even dealers who earned their livings by selling wristwatches were initially hesitant. As late as 1916, when Rolex had already set acknowledged standards for precision, one of these diehards continued to insist that the penchant for wristwatches was an error of female taste - because the wrist is surely the least suitable place to affix a watch. This same critic lamented the inaccurate rate of wirst-borne timepieces, although he admitted that this shortcoming was of little concern to the ladies who compromised the predominant clientele for this genre of watch. Women, he remarked, needn't know the time to the nearest second.

I'm certainly not endorsing the sexism, but I do find it comical that the naysayers in this thread are pretty much parroting this same outdated (by about 100 years) logic.

[Fuzzyme]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

It seems as though you have not actually gone through the info in this thread. If the topic interests you I would suggest going back through the posts and you will see the specific damage (including pictures) found. And the RSC watchmaker opinion that there is no long term fix at this time. And the reports of significant time loss appearing after months of previously great performance. And the reports of watches developing the problem a second or third time after official Rolex servicing. Etc. etc. Nobody here has ever suggested that the timing standards Rolex tests against at the factory are the issue here.

When you finish your significant Poll and send you results to HQ, I certainly hope you tell them to throw out all that expensive testing equipment they have now and buy Timegraphers and start using apps to time the watches before they send them out.

I also suggest you ask them exactly what is the lift angle of a 32XX

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Fuzzyme

When you finish your significant Poll and send you results to HQ, I certainly hope you tell them to throw out all that expensive testing equipment they have now and buy Timegraphers and start using apps to time the watches before they send them out.



I also suggest you ask them exactly what is the lift angle of a 32XX

Good one

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[5513-L Series]

Just picked up a 2021 124060 No Date Submariner. I keep it on my wrist 12 hours a day and store it dial up at night. Over a 7 day period I lost a total of 1 second! It’s by far the most accurate Rolex I’ve ever owned. The movement is incredibly accurate on my wrist and I couldn’t be happier.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

So if you have a car that runs fine when you are on the gas but dies when you let off at a stop sign, would you consider that a problem? You can just keep the rpms at 4000 while at the light and it'll never stall. All good? The point being, sure, certain behavioral patterns can hide/bandaid certain problems. But at the end of the day no watchmaker will claim that a pivot should be "grinding to dust" (Bas's words) nor that amplitude should be below 200 degrees only 12 hours after a full 80 rotation winding (this is my 126613's behavior). Honestly we're just at the beginning of this exploration. Nobody has put forth any meaningful description of a true fix for this problem. We have been told Rolex knows it's an issue, but their own watchmakers don't think their advised "fix" is actually a fix. Is Rolex 1 week away from a more permanent solution? 5 years? Will they launch a 33xx next year and just consider this 32xx a bust? Who knows.
.

My engine DOES die when I come to a stop sign....


I drive a hybrid.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by 5513-L Series

Just picked up a 2021 124060 No Date Submariner. I keep it on my wrist 12 hours a day and store it dial up at night. Over a 7 day period I lost a total of 1 second! It’s by far the most accurate Rolex I’ve ever owned. The movement is incredibly accurate on my wrist and I couldn’t be happier.

Yep when they run on spec they are insanely good.

A lot of us starting having issues one year in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PekWatchGuy]

+1

Originally Posted by amanbra

yep when they run on spec they are insanely good.

A lot of us starting having issues one year in.


Sent from my iphone using tapatalk

[TswaneNguni]

Btw,where have the Rolex TechXperts (Bas and Scott ) gone ?

I see they haven't been on the forum for quite some time .

[Guybrush]

fwiw---as much as anecdotal evidence is ever worth---my 126610, picked up in October, was running a few sec/day slow at first. Didn't really bother me, but I did notice it and tried various resting positions, none of which seemed to have made a big difference. Now, after a few months of daily wear, it seems to have "broken in" and is keeping incredibly accurate time. I'd say I've gone from losing 2 seconds a day to losing maybe a second every 10 days. I've never owned a mechanical watch this accurate before. Granted, I don't know anything about amplitude.

[Tritto]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Btw,where have the Rolex TechXperts (Bas and Scott ) gone ?

I see they haven't been on the forum for quite some time .

Too busy fixing busted 32xx movements to bother with TRF?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Btw,where have the Rolex TechXperts (Bas and Scott ) gone ?

I see they haven't been on the forum for quite some time .

Maybe they got a "talkin' to"

[5513-L Series]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Yep when they run on spec they are insanely good.

A lot of us starting having issues one year in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wasn’t the 3230 movement just released last Sept?