I May Have Been Scammed Right Here On TRF

[tnt]

A nice looking family, Doc.
Congratulations on happy ending as well

[dkpw]

What excellent news that your watches are back in their rightful place. After all the stress and your efforts, you may need either a holiday or perhaps a trip to your nearest AD for a new 16618...?

Good luck in 2010!

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by dkpw

What excellent news that your watches are back in their rightful place. After all the stress and your efforts, you may need either a holiday or perhaps a trip to your nearest AD for a new 16618...?

I am leaving for Mexico (the Mayan Riviera) in 17 days. I'm sure that will help alleviate some stress.

[dmc]

http://articles.bplans.com/small-bus...-contracts/182


Simple and Enforceable Contracts
by Nolo

For most contracts, legalese is not essential nor helpful; contractual agreements are best expressed in simple, everyday English. Although lots of contracts are filled with mind-bending legal gibberish, there’s no reason why this has to be true. For most contracts, legalese is not essential or even helpful. On the contrary, the agreements you’ll want to put into a written contract are best expressed in simple, everyday English.

All that is necessary for most contracts to be legally valid are the following two elements:

all parties are in agreement (after an offer has been made by one party and accepted by the other)
something of value has been exchanged, such as cash, services or goods (or a promise to exchange such an item) for something else of value.
In a few situations, a contract must be in writing to be valid. State laws often require written contracts for certain transactions such as real estate sales or contracts that will last more than one year. You’ll need to check your state’s laws to figure out which contracts must legally be in writing. Of course, because oral contracts can be difficult or impossible to prove, it is wise to write out most agreements, even if not legally required.

Let’s look a bit more closely at the two elements — agreement between the parties and exchange of things of value — necessary for a valid contract.

1. Agreement between parties, a.k.a. offer and acceptance
Although it may seem like stating the obvious, an essential element of a valid contract is that all parties really do agree on all major issues. In real life there are plenty of situations that blur the line between a full agreement and a preliminary discussion about the possibility of making an agreement. To help clarify these borderline cases, the law has developed some rules defining when an agreement legally exists.

The most basic rule of contract law is that a legal contract exists when one party makes an offer and the other party accepts it. For most types of contracts, this can be done either orally or in writing. Let’s say, for instance, you’re shopping around for a print shop to produce brochures for your business. One printer says (or faxes) that he’ll print 5,000 two-color flyers for $200. This constitutes his offer. If you tell him to go ahead with the job, you’ve accepted his offer. In the eyes of the law, when you tell the printer to go ahead, you create a contract, which means you’re liable for your side of the bargain (in this case, payment of $200). But if you tell the printer you’re not sure and want to continue shopping around (or don’t even respond, for that matter), you clearly haven’t accepted his offer and no agreement has been reached. Or if you say his offer sounds great, except that you want the printer to use three colors instead of two, no contract has been made, since you have not accepted all of the important terms of the offer — you’ve changed one term of the offer. (Depending on your wording, you may have made a counteroffer, which is discussed below.)


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Sure enough, in real, day-to-day business the seemingly simple steps of offer and acceptance can become quite convoluted. For instance, sometimes when you make an offer it isn’t quickly and unequivocally accepted; the other party may want to think about it for a while or try to get a better deal for himself. And before he accepts your offer, you might change your mind and want to withdraw or amend your offer. Delaying acceptance of an offer and revoking an offer, as well as making a counteroffer, are common situations in business transactions that often lead to confusion and conflict. To minimize the potential for a dispute, here are some general rules you should understand and follow.

How long an offer stays open. Unless an offer includes a stated expiration date, it remains open for a “reasonable” time. What’s reasonable, of course, is open to interpretation and will vary depending on the type of business and the particular fact situation. To leave no room for doubt as to when the other party must make a decision, the best way to make an offer is to include an expiration date. And if you want to accept someone else’s offer, the best approach is to do it as soon as possible, while there’s no doubt that the offer is still open. Keep in mind that until you accept, the person or company who made the offer — called the offeror — may revoke it. Revocation is discussed below.
Counter offers. Often when an offer is made, the response will not be to accept the terms of the offer right off, but to start bargaining. Of course, haggling over price is the most common type of negotiating that occurs in business situations. When one party responds to an offer by proposing something different, this proposal is called a “counteroffer.” When a counteroffer is made, the legal responsibility to accept, decline or make another counteroffer shifts to the original offeror.For instance, if your printer (here, the original offeror) offers to print 5,000 brochures for $300 and you respond by saying you’ll pay $250 for the job, you have not accepted his offer (no contract has been formed), but instead have made a counteroffer. If your printer then agrees to do the job exactly as you have specified for $250, he’s accepted your counteroffer and a legal agreement has been reached. While it is true that a contract is only formed if the accepting party agrees to all substantial terms of an offer, this doesn’t mean you can rely on inconsequential differences to void a contract later. For example, if you offer to buy 100 chicken sandwiches on one-inch-thick sourdough bread, there is no contract if the other party replies he will provide 100 emu fillets on rye bread. But if he agrees to provide the chicken sandwiches on one-inch-thick sourdough bread, a valid contract exists, and you can’t later refuse to pay if the bread turns out to be a hair thicker or thinner than one inch.
Revoking an offer. Whoever makes an offer can revoke it as long as it hasn’t yet been accepted. This means if you make an offer and the other party says she needs some time to think it through or makes a counteroffer with changed terms, you can revoke your original offer. Once she accepts, however, you’ll have a binding agreement. Revocation must happen before acceptance.An exception to this rule occurs if the parties agree that the offer will remain open for a stated period of time. This type of agreement is called an option, and it usually doesn’t come for free. Say someone offers to sell you a forklift for $10,000, and you want to think the offer over free of the worry that the seller will withdraw the offer or sell to someone else. You and the seller could agree that the offer will stay open for a certain period of time, say thirty days. Often, however, the offeror will ask you to pay for this 30-day option — which is understandable, since during the 30-day option period he can’t sell to anyone else. Payment or no payment, when an option agreement exists, the offeror cannot revoke the offer until the time period ends.
2. Exchange of things of value
In addition to both parties’ agreeing to the terms, a contract isn’t valid unless both parties exchange something of value — in anticipation of the completion of the contract. The “thing of value” being exchanged — which every law student who ever lived has been taught to call “consideration” — is most often a promise to do something in the future, such as a promise to perform a certain job or a promise to pay a fee for that job. For instance, let’s return to the example of the print job. Once you and the printer agree on terms, there is an exchange of things of value (consideration): the printer has promised to print the 5,000 brochures and you have promised to pay $250 for them.

The main importance of requiring things of value to be exchanged is to differentiate a contract from generous statements and one-sided promises that are not enforceable by law. If a friend offers you a gift, for instance, such as offering to stop by and help you move a pile of rocks, without asking anything in return, that arrangement wouldn’t count as a contract because you didn’t give or promise him anything of value. If the other party never followed through with his gift, you would not be able to enforce his promise. However, if in exchange for helping you move rocks on Saturday, you promise your friend you’ll help him weed his vegetable garden on Sunday, a contract exists.

Although the exchange of value requirement necessary to form a valid contract is met in most business transactions by an exchange of promises (”I’ll promise to pay money if you promise to paint my building next month”), actually doing the work can also satisfy the rule. If, for instance, you leave your printer a voice-mail message that you’ll pay an extra $100 if your brochures are cut and stapled when you pick them up, the printer can create a binding contract by actually doing the cutting and stapling. And once he does so, you can’t weasel out of the deal by claiming you changed your mind.

Copyright © Nolo

[sea-dweller]

Glad to hear that things worked out !!!

[nirun4444]

Big Congrats Doc... I just spent the last 2 hours reading all 34 pages in one sitting.. I am soo glad you were able to recover the watches, and before long the money also would be back in your accounts!!!

[bt8897]

i just joined this forum tonight after reccomendation from a friend on another watch forum, and i am absolutly shocked and amazed at the support shown by the community for your situation! Im so glad you got your watches back and its a great lesson for everyone!!

Brian

[Desperado]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

Or you could drop cash in a bag at the corner of Lake and Chicago at midnight, and I promise to mail you the watch Tuesday.

I assure you that you will send the watch it is clear for everybody that you are a respectable person and a man of your word (thats why you got your things back)

Big Congrats & a Happy new year to you and the family

[Deeper]

Good for you mate. Happy new year

[Colnago]

Due to the outcome.....that is possibly the best thread I have read on here.....I missed it over Christmas and just found it this morning....I read through it all without jumping to the end......all I can say is that once again it has been confirmed to me that TRF is a very very special place.......the "family" here never ceases to amaze me.......

Mark, I am so pleased for you that things turned out great......if those two watches were mine they would never be leaving me again........some have said before that watches carry stories....those two have a pretty interesting "Thelma and Louise" road trip story to tell.....

Part way through the thread where you went into detail about your chosen career brought tears to my eyes and gave me a lump the size of a beach ball in my throat, you and yours deserve medals like dinner plates for doing what you do.....

You're a good guy....good things happen to good guys....this story is proof of that

Bill

[eteo]

Congrats Joey on getting your property back.

Great idea of having a written contract.

I wonder if a simple template could be drawn up that is available for download on TRF for all of us to use? Something simple and in plain English with blanks to be filled in for the watch to be sold and price to be paid. Perhaps a TRF member who is a lawyer could do that?

Cheers and Happy New Year.

[BTSinAustin]

Oh man. What a story. I have not been on in a while, came on to help a buddy looking for an 18k Y DD. Thanks for all the info and thank goodness you where made whole again. Happy New Year indeed.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Nicko

He is banned here,,,OMG, let' hope everything works out.

Good god, I hope everything works out.....if he was banned here how the hell was his rubbish on the sales corner?
I was lazy and only viewed the first page, looks as though everything worked out and i am glad to hear it!!!

[joeychitwood]

I just received a very interesting call from an investigator with the South Carolina State Police regarding a report I had filed with the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3.) I advised him of the facts of the case, and he stated that Hayes could indeed be brought up on criminal charges of "obtaining goods under false pretenses." He told me how rare it was that someone actually gets their money and/or goods back in a case like mine, and he partially credited jumping into action as soon as possible. He said that the longer someone waits, the less likely that stolen goods are ever returned.

I laughed out loud when he said that he read my complaint (he did not yet know the outcome so far) and just had to follow up on it, as "this one would be like shooting fish in a barrel" as far as busting Hayes goes.

Once again, I have been impressed by the diligence and professionalism of the South Carolina law enforcement agencies. I personally find it very reassuring that officers are so driven and willing to help someone in another state. They have my thanks and admiration.

[Safetrends]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

I just received a very interesting call from an investigator with the South Carolina State Police regarding a report I had filed with the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3.) I advised him of the facts of the case, and he stated that Hayes could indeed be brought up on criminal charges of "obtaining goods under false pretenses." He told me how rare it was that someone actually gets their money and/or goods back in a case like mine, and he partially credited jumping into action as soon as possible. He said that the longer someone waits, the less likely that stolen goods are ever returned.

I laughed out loud when he said that he read my complaint (he did not yet know the outcome so far) and just had to follow up on it, as "this one would be like shooting fish in a barrel" as far as busting Hayes goes.

Once again, I have been impressed by the diligence and professionalism of the South Carolina law enforcement agencies. I personally find it very reassuring that officers are so driven and willing to help someone in another state. They have my thanks and admiration.

Doctor
As I stated before he has violated state and federal crimes and they will go after him, it cost money to investigate a crime and the investigators will not stop when the property has been returned. The property crossed state lines and you need to follow up in having this man put in Jail.

David

[joeychitwood]

The decision to charge him or not will not be mine. The SCSP officer stated that county prosecutors will make the decision, but the fact that Hayes has no prior criminal convictions and I have/will have received my goods and money back will lessen the likelihood that he will be charged. He also stated that though twelve grand is a lot of money to me and him, it is chump change in terms of other active internet fraud cases, and the small amount won't draw much attention from prosecutors.

There's an old prayer that applies: "grant me the serenity to accept the things cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." This is out of my hands.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by miked

Good god, I hope everything works out.....if he was banned here how the hell was his rubbish on the sales corner?


I was lazy and only viewed the first page, looks as though everything worked out and i am glad to hear it!!!

Yup, you were. Got the chronology all wrong as well.

[Mosco]

Paul, your avatars are getting increasingly more disturbing!

[Pietro T]

Wow, I am new to this forum hate to read things like this. Hope it all works out for you. Enjoy you trip.

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

The decision to charge him or not will not be mine. The SCSP officer stated that county prosecutors will make the decision, but the fact that Hayes has no prior criminal convictions and I have/will have received my goods and money back will lessen the likelihood that he will be charged. He also stated that though twelve grand is a lot of money to me and him, it is chump change in terms of other active internet fraud cases, and the small amount won't draw much attention from prosecutors.

There's an old prayer that applies: "grant me the serenity to accept the things cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." This is out of my hands.

I am very surprised he has no criminal past (at least not getting caught). He seems like a small time crook who has probably skirted the law multiple times. I hope SC prosecutors do file charges against him. It would be an open and shut case and he certainly deserves it.

Have a great vacation Mark.

[Rscmaine]

I came perilously close to doing a deal for the TT serti - this guy was good - he began by being reluctant to do the deal - I did check out his posts and noted that he had boosted his post count in one day.

Here's our email chatter and why I bailed -

The identical watch was listed on TZ under a new and different ID - I contacted that "seller"

1)

Author
NatP


Posts: 369
Location: In the woods in Maine
Registered:
March 2007

What gives? Dec 19, 2009 - 03:10 PM
I thought we were discussing a deal for this watch... Now it is listed here under a different name? Huh? NatP


Tony: So you never seen Doc Cu
2)

Author
rolexsmanq


Posts: 0
Registered:
December 2009
[add to buddy list]

Re: What gives? Dec 19, 2009 - 03:16 PM
i have no ideal who you are or the deal??

3)

Author
NatP


Posts: 369
Location: In the woods in Maine
Registered:
March 2007

Re: What gives? Dec 19, 2009 - 03:19 PM

Then how do you explain the fact that the same watch is listed in the Rolex Forum with this listing - Up for sale is my Mens Rolex Submariner - 18K Gold (Two-Tone) Champagne Serti with Diamonds and Sapphires - LNIB (Like New in Box). It comes with Original Box and Papers. Model = 16613 and Serial = Z86. As you can see in the Photos it is in Mint Condition! Free Fex-Ex 2 Day Insured Shipping in Continental US. PRICE : $5,450.00 Payment by BANK WIRE ONLY. EMail: [email protected] Seems remarkable that there are 2 identical watches with the same description and serial number and the same offer of 2 day fedex...






4)
Author
rolexsmanq


Posts: 0
Registered:
December 2009
[add to buddy list]

Re: What gives? Dec 19, 2009 - 03:31 PM
i'm look to sell it hear my name is TheRolex88 on wathcforum ? is that ok with you.
5)
Author
NatP


Posts: 369
Location: In the woods in Maine
Registered:
March 2007

Frankly you can do whatever you want Dec 19, 2009 - 03:35 PM
I've already reported your post as a possible scam. Do not reply or call me.


Tony: So you never seen Doc Cusamano going out at three in the morning on a call? Meadow: Did the Cusamano kids ever find $50,000 in krugerrandts and a .45 automatic while they were hunting for Easter eggs?
__________

I reported the listing to the admin folks and all his posts were deleted on the site, and his posting rights revoked.

There are a bunch of folks who do this crap all day every day just hoping to get a wire for big bucks from somone.

It sucks, but the watch community is pretty good at self policing this stuff.

NP

From Him -

Hello Nathaniel:

Im sorry I am late getting back to you. I had an issue that came up that made for a rather unpleasant weekend. I just tried to call you on the number you gave me and I spoke with a lady ( I am assuming wife) and she said you were out on a business trip and that even she can not get through to you on you cell phone. Anyway I am ready to finish this up as well. My address is 404 Waterville Dr. Columbia SC 29229 and my phone number is 803-543-2281. I forgot to bring my cell with me today so I will not be able to check voicemail until tonight. Ether you can send me your cell # and I can try you tonight or I can call your other number and perhaps your wife can relay a message to me. Or drop me a note through email. I will talk to you soon and thanks for getting rid of the "Bonehead" on the other board!

Thank you
Andy (TheRolex88)
--------------------------

From me - no reply back from him -

Hi andy. I'm staying at a motel with internet and cell coverage. My cell is 207XXXXXXX. After chatting with wife and my insurance carrier I'm afraid I will need to see a picture of the warrantee paper with your name written on a scrap of paper next to it. Nothing fancy. Like my photo with the watch, rscmaine/natp and the date. Nothing personal. That scammer spooked me.

Ill be available via cell until around 9-9:30 then going to bed as I have to be up at 4am

Nat


And POOF he was gone.

I'm so glad that you got your watches back Doc...amazing.

Feel free to pass my info on to the SC prosecutors - perhaps it will establish a "pattern of behaviour" sufficient to trigger a criminal prosecution of this guy.

[ocwatching]

been in conference for few days and didn't get on TRF..but so glad this "case" has a happy ending...congrats you Doc...
and lovely family you have...congrats!

[joeychitwood]

Rscmaine, those emails are fascinating. I still cannot believe this guy was conducting these scams with his own name, address, phone number and bank account number. It's like leaving a business card at the scene of a robbery. I truly hope he is charged and convicted for obtaining goods under false pretenses. Everything I hear about him makes me even more grateful to have received my watches and money (eventually, guaranteed by the banks) from him.

[Nicko]

WOW! Now that's some scary stuff. What a sneaky (and stupid) bastard.

[Rscmaine]

Hello,

I read about the Mark's experience with this guy on the Rolex Forum, and thought it might be of interest to you that he attempted an identical scam on me.

I have retained all the emails and some private messages from another watch forum (timezone) where he apparently created a second persona and utilized a second email in an effort to further obscure his identity. I caught the second ID by noticing similarities between the listings.

I believe this second (and provable) attempt shows a "pattern of criminal behavior and intent" and raises Mr. Hayes from the status of a one time mistake, to that of someone who will almost certainly try this again if he is not prosecuted.

I would be happy to forward all of our communication to you if it would help attain an indictment,

Feel free to call me directly at (207) XXX XXXX if you want to interview me about this case.

Thank you,

Nat Parkinson


Lets see whether a pattern of behavior has any impact on their decision to prosecute...I'll follow up if I hear from them.

[Cocobaci]

Joey, did you end up getting your funds?

[Safetrends]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

Rscmaine, those emails are fascinating. I still cannot believe this guy was conducting these scams with his own name, address, phone number and bank account number. It's like leaving a business card at the scene of a robbery. I truly hope he is charged and convicted for obtaining goods under false pretenses. Everything I hear about him makes me even more grateful to have received my watches and money (eventually, guaranteed by the banks) from him.

As I said in the past Doctor 90% of the criminals are not smart and that is why they get caught.!

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by Cocobaci

Joey, did you end up getting your funds?

The funds are frozen in the scammer's bank account. The reversal paperwork is being done. Both his bank and mine have said it will take another week or so, but I will get the money back.

[Safetrends]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

The funds are frozen in the scammer's bank account. The reversal paperwork is being done. Both his bank and mine have said it will take another week or so, but I will get the money back.

The good news is it is a paper trail leading to the idiots front door!

[Speed Metal Army]

I hope this twit gets roasted.Im paranoid as it is sending $$$ to someone ive never met.Im glad the good Doctor has his nuts in in a bit of a bind!