FP Journe Appreciation Thread, an Evolution.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Am hesitant to give a recap as my personal angst about the current market may have me reading more into what Pierre said. Plus i haven't had my morning glass of ristretto yet. So from my own personal perspective, here's what i felt were the highlights. Will focus on the constructive / positive, because we all know the current environment and challenges with ensuring you're a passionate enthusiast. This can be quite tricky due to (my own words here) the undesirable investment / flipper types.

1. FPJ seeks true enthusiast
2. You have a deep passion for horology
3. There's a model you desire because....
4. We're part of a warm and welcoming 'family'.

For me, point four is what i sooooo miss about the 'old days' of horology on the retail side. You know, back when my AD and i had time, as good friends, to go out for dinners with our wive/girlfriends too. With a good friendship, your AD joins you during an important life event (or SCCA race in my case back then), or you join theirs (their daughter gets married, an anniversary celebration, etc). Sure we love horology and discuss various aspects, new developments, our desires.... If i may say, there's more to life than a watch.

Perhaps i'm old, or a hopeless romantic, yet recall a time when procuring a timepiece was a celebration, a very special moment in life. Something truly precious and rare (as it pertains to your life experience, NOT the item itself).

---------

Steven's Side Story
While not watch-related, for me personally it is akin to the feeling when the exceedingly rare Sonor 14" x 8" deep cast bronze snare drum arrived here. Ok, that might not make much sense to 'normal people', yet for a long time and classically-trained percussionist and drummer, the magic of that musical instrument (and the absolutely super-fun super-rare 6.5" cast bronze) in how they bring a lifetime of bliss... and 'opens the door' for many musical possibilities not attainable with any other musical instrument.

If you're a musician reading this, odds are there's an instrument or three that has very special qualities that, once you meld with that instrument and experience/explore the possibilities, you realize there's no other instrument in the world that can 'equal' it in its ability in providing your deeply heartfelt emotional expression. In a sense, you become 'one with the instrument' as emotional expression electrifies your senses.

jmho

I did appreciate his honesty about the current environment. Seems to be a sentiment shared by other brands as well, Ed Meylan (the CEO of Moser) was also vocal against flippers in a recent interview.

I do wonder how how much of Pierre’s comments were lip service though. I’ve been on the CB waitlist for 3.5 years now. I was one of the first to fill out the new application card process at the NYC boutique. I wrote a lengthy description to FP of what the watch would mean to me. Since then, I’ve went into that NYC boutique and struck up numerous conversations with the manager to show I am an “enthusiast” (William is a great guy btw). You know what? Still on the waitlist. A month ago I went, in person, to check on my status and the saleswoman there basically insinuated that I needed to purchase other pieces; having a CB as a first watch is almost impossible.

This is not meant to come off as sour grapes, but FPJ seems to be like every other brand. They prioritize certain people. Younger, newer collectors kind of get overlooked because they don’t have history. You can put in face time. Go to events. Strike up “enthusiast” level conversations with managers. Doesn’t matter.

[GB-man]

I thought it was a great chat and Pierre seemed very straightforward and down to earth. It seems going forward they aim to provide collectors with one mechanical piece per year which has ruffled some feathers combined with the massive price hikes on certain references (hello black label resonance).

I’m excited to see what FPJ has up his sleeve next. It seems like they have all the tools and funds at his disposal and as a creative he could go on a run the next decade.

[JR16]

I enjoyed the honesty, straight-shooter talk from Pierre , assuming it was all sincere. I like that he and FP recognize it’s a small company and that it should stay small so as not to stray from their values. The emphasis on people/collectors over assets/$ was refreshing , recognizing though at the end of the day we are talking about $50-$100k+ entry into the FPJ “community”. I enjoyed the dive into some of the details surrounding number of watches they make, number of watchmakers they have for each model etc. Will be interesting to see how the one watch per collector plays out, and what they do with prices (retail) over the next few years. I feel lucky to have acquired two special ones at what now seems like “cheap” prices, but do get anxious over what it will cost me to get the next one by the time i get it (if I get it… need to make a trip into NY).


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[enjoythemusic]

Yes indeed, am glad FPJ wants to remain true to his vision, and insists on producing the best possible. With their current size of highly talented craftspeople, there is a natural limit to production at these levels. A great point brought up by Pierre is that resources to realize FPJ's artistic dreams are increasing. This bodes well to support his future horological masterpieces.

[F131F]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I do wonder how how much of Pierre’s comments were lip service though. This is not meant to come off as sour grapes, but FPJ seems to be like every other brand. They prioritize certain people. Younger, newer collectors kind of get overlooked because they don’t have history. You can put in face time. Go to events. Strike up “enthusiast” level conversations with managers. Doesn’t matter.

This is correct.

I’ve been on the CB waitlist for 3.5 years now. I was one of the first to fill out the new application card process at the NYC boutique. I wrote a lengthy description to FP of what the watch would mean to me. Since then, I’ve went into that NYC boutique and struck up numerous conversations with the manager to show I am an “enthusiast” (William is a great guy btw). You know what? Still on the waitlist. A month ago I went, in person, to check on my status and the saleswoman there basically insinuated that I needed to purchase other pieces; having a CB as a first watch is almost impossible.

This is also correct. The wait list for the CB was closed in 2019 and that watch now is only available to "established" boutique customers.

[BlueIn2Red]

Originally Posted by F131F

This is also correct. The wait list for the CB was closed in 2019 and that watch now is only available to "established" boutique customers.

Surely the point is that they closed it to new applicants - those who had applied before and been told they were on the list can rightly still expect to get a watch in my opinion.

[F131F]

Originally Posted by BlueIn2Red

Surely the point is that they closed it to new applicants - those who had applied before and been told they were on the list can rightly still expect to get a watch in my opinion.

Can't argue with that.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by BlueIn2Red

Surely the point is that they closed it to new applicants - those who had applied before and been told they were on the list can rightly still expect to get a watch in my opinion.

Exactly. So, to be told that I basically keep getting pushed back in the queue to make way for existing clients, who requested the watch years after me, makes FPJ no different than other brands. Make no mistake, I'm not lamenting over their business practice or saying it's wrong or even unethical. That said, don't sell me a bridge on wanting to connect with enthusiasts.

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Exactly. So, to be told that I basically keep getting pushed back in the queue to make way for existing clients, who requested the watch years after me, makes FPJ no different than other brands. Make no mistake, I'm not lamenting over their business practice or saying it's wrong or even unethical. That said, don't sell me a bridge on wanting to connect with enthusiasts.

I am sorry to hear about your situation and having to wait 3.5 years and being told there is little to no chance...I've been there and I am there even as a seasoned collector with more than 1 Journe.

I have seen firsthand how the US FP Journe team has had to adopt to what has taken place in the past 18 months. I would say, they make 900 non Elegante every year and some of the less popular watches would sit even as early as Q1 2020. So lets just say out of the 900 watches -

pre-2020:

1) 300 of the 900 (like the CB, Havana and others) were sold out and had perhaps a 1 year wait list. Demand was say 600 a year.

2) 500 of the 900 were sold within months, there was just a small lag. So annual demand was say 500 a year (supply = demand).

3) 200 of the 900 sat around for a year. So annual demand was say 100 a year.

Post 2020 and today - given what happened with auction results, pretty much every watch collector with the means want one:

1) 300 of the 900 (like CB, havana and others) - were sold out and had 1 year, demand has grown from 600 a year now to 2000 a year (conservative estimate but given how a CB can be flipped for x5, demand for it is probably unlimited) Realistically, how can they allocate this to new customers when there is a 7 year waitlist and its closed? Maybe they allocate 50? You fall in this category, how do you convince them you are that 1% that will keep the watch - it can be done but go by more often.

2) 500 of the 900 were sold within months, there was just a small lag. So annual demand was say 500 a year (supply = demand).Now demand is also 2000 a year. That's a 4 year wait.

3) 200 of the 900 sat around for a year. So annual demand was say 100 a year. Now say the demand is 200 a year - you probably have your best shot at this.

I would say instead of being hell bent on 1 dream watch, be practical and realstic and go for category #2 or #3. The supply demand equation will only get worse. If you really don't want to settle, go grey - the market is efficient enough that really the watches are trading at fair value (less 10-15% dealer margin).

[turborolex]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

I am sorry to hear about your situation and having to wait 3.5 years and being told there is little to no chance...I've been there and I am there even as a seasoned collector with more than 1 Journe.

I have seen firsthand how the US FP Journe team has had to adopt to what has taken place in the past 18 months. I would say, they make 900 non Elegante every year and some of the less popular watches would sit even as early as Q1 2020. So lets just say out of the 900 watches -

pre-2020:

1) 300 of the 900 (like the CB, Havana and others) were sold out and had perhaps a 1 year wait list. Demand was say 600 a year.

2) 500 of the 900 were sold within months, there was just a small lag. So annual demand was say 500 a year (supply = demand).

3) 200 of the 900 sat around for a year. So annual demand was say 100 a year.

Post 2020 and today - given what happened with auction results, pretty much every watch collector with the means want one:

1) 300 of the 900 (like CB, havana and others) - were sold out and had 1 year, demand has grown from 600 a year now to 2000 a year (conservative estimate but given how a CB can be flipped for x5, demand for it is probably unlimited) Realistically, how can they allocate this to new customers when there is a 7 year waitlist and its closed? Maybe they allocate 50? You fall in this category, how do you convince them you are that 1% that will keep the watch - it can be done but go by more often.

2) 500 of the 900 were sold within months, there was just a small lag. So annual demand was say 500 a year (supply = demand).Now demand is also 2000 a year. That's a 4 year wait.

3) 200 of the 900 sat around for a year. So annual demand was say 100 a year. Now say the demand is 200 a year - you probably have your best shot at this.

I would say instead of being hell bent on 1 dream watch, be practical and realstic and go for category #2 or #3. The supply demand equation will only get worse. If you really don't want to settle, go grey - the market is efficient enough that really the watches are trading at fair value (less 10-15% dealer margin).

Nice summary, thanks!

What would you consider to be category 2 and 3?


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[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by turborolex

Nice summary, thanks!

What would you consider to be category 2 and 3?


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I think a basic CS in rose or platinum would be category 3. I think still some of the linesports is category 3.

Category 2 would be the Optimum, vertical Torb perhaps boutique black dial with rose case. This category is getting crazy since category 1 is unobtanium.

Category 1 would be Resonance, CB, Havana, black labels, limited editions.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

I am sorry to hear about your situation and having to wait 3.5 years and being told there is little to no chance...I've been there and I am there even as a seasoned collector with more than 1 Journe.

I have seen firsthand how the US FP Journe team has had to adopt to what has taken place in the past 18 months. I would say, they make 900 non Elegante every year and some of the less popular watches would sit even as early as Q1 2020. So lets just say out of the 900 watches -

pre-2020:

1) 300 of the 900 (like the CB, Havana and others) were sold out and had perhaps a 1 year wait list. Demand was say 600 a year.

2) 500 of the 900 were sold within months, there was just a small lag. So annual demand was say 500 a year (supply = demand).

3) 200 of the 900 sat around for a year. So annual demand was say 100 a year.

Post 2020 and today - given what happened with auction results, pretty much every watch collector with the means want one:

1) 300 of the 900 (like CB, havana and others) - were sold out and had 1 year, demand has grown from 600 a year now to 2000 a year (conservative estimate but given how a CB can be flipped for x5, demand for it is probably unlimited) Realistically, how can they allocate this to new customers when there is a 7 year waitlist and its closed? Maybe they allocate 50? You fall in this category, how do you convince them you are that 1% that will keep the watch - it can be done but go by more often.

2) 500 of the 900 were sold within months, there was just a small lag. So annual demand was say 500 a year (supply = demand).Now demand is also 2000 a year. That's a 4 year wait.

3) 200 of the 900 sat around for a year. So annual demand was say 100 a year. Now say the demand is 200 a year - you probably have your best shot at this.

I would say instead of being hell bent on 1 dream watch, be practical and realstic and go for category #2 or #3. The supply demand equation will only get worse. If you really don't want to settle, go grey - the market is efficient enough that really the watches are trading at fair value (less 10-15% dealer margin).

It’s a tough situation for all involved. Unfortunately for me, aesthetically I’m really only attracted to the CB and CS Havana (both unobtanium). I have no problem waiting and being patient. I’m not paying grey prices, as much as I love the watches, there are better options at those price points (imho).

I have no disillusion about where this places me. I likely will get nothing…and I’m okay with that.

My only point about posting my situation was not to garner sympathy or advice. It was just to highlight that FPJ is like any other brand. They may talk of wanting to get watches to enthusiasts. They may say how Journe himself wanted the CB to be a gateway to the brand and he personally hates what has become of it. But, at the end of the day, they are no better than the practices employed by AP, RM, etc. They shouldn’t be commended for lip service while practicing AP-level tactics.

[djnick]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

It’s a tough situation for all involved. Unfortunately for me, aesthetically I’m really only attracted to the CB and CS Havana (both unobtanium). I have no problem waiting and being patient. I’m not paying grey prices, as much as I love the watches, there are better options at those price points (imho).

I have no disillusion about where this places me. I likely will get nothing…and I’m okay with that.

My only point about posting my situation was not to garner sympathy or advice. It was just to highlight that FPJ is like any other brand. They may talk of wanting to get watches to enthusiasts. They may say how Journe himself wanted the CB to be a gateway to the brand and he personally hates what has become of it. But, at the end of the day, they are no better than the practices employed by AP, RM, etc. They shouldn’t be commended for lip service while practicing AP-level tactics.

It is what it is at this point. I’m not sure what you wanted to hear on that call. Production will essentially remain the same and the demand far out weighs supply. In the end it just sounds like they want to cultivate a community for enthusiasts/collector whether or not that means you have a Journe on your wrist or not. Like Pierre said many times on the call end of the day it’s just a watch

[F131F]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

My only point about posting my situation was not to garner sympathy or advice. It was just to highlight that FPJ is like any other brand. They may talk of wanting to get watches to enthusiasts. They may say how Journe himself wanted the CB to be a gateway to the brand and he personally hates what has become of it. But, at the end of the day, they are no better than the practices employed by AP, RM, etc. They shouldn’t be commended for lip service while practicing AP-level tactics.

This is 100% correct and will not change anytime in the future.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by djnick

It is what it is at this point. I’m not sure what you wanted to hear on that call. Production will essentially remain the same and the demand far out weighs supply. In the end it just sounds like they want to cultivate a community for enthusiasts/collector whether or not that means you have a Journe on your wrist or not. Like Pierre said many times on the call end of the day it’s just a watch

“Cultivating a community” means allowing younger/newer enthusiasts to actually obtain watches. Only allowing a select few existing clients to obtain all the desirable watches you make is not “cultivating”. They don’t practice what they preach. I’m only calling out the hypocrisy.

[RobGomez]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

“Cultivating a community” means allowing younger/newer enthusiasts to actually obtain watches. Only allowing a select few existing clients to obtain all the desirable watches you make is not “cultivating”. They don’t practice what they preach. I’m only calling out the hypocrisy.

My experience with FPJ is the opposite of yours. You are a single data point as I am. I can personally attest to what Pierre mentioned - FPJ does prioritize those who demonstrate passion and enthusiasm for the brand. That’s the whole point of their continued investment in getting to know collectors through frequent events and parties. I don’t know of any other brand (small or big) that places such resources on getting to know their current and prospective clients. I’m sorry you haven’t gotten your CB, but strongly disagree with discounting FPJ to the level of other OEMs.


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[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by RobGomez

My experience with FPJ is the opposite of yours. You are a single data point as I am. I can personally attest to what Pierre mentioned - FPJ does prioritize those who demonstrate passion and enthusiasm for the brand. That’s the whole point of their continued investment in getting to know collectors through frequent events and parties. I don’t know of any other brand (small or big) that places such resources on getting to know their current and prospective clients. I’m sorry you haven’t gotten your CB, but strongly disagree with discounting FPJ to the level of other OEMs.


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Curious then, what was your first Journe and when did you acquire it?

All I can say is, I have been active in the community. I have written a lengthy letter on my application to show my enthusiasm and interest. Only to be told flat out by the boutique that they prioritize existing customers, flying in the face of what they are saying to everyone else.

You may have anecdotal evidence, but I can tell you for 100% certainty that the NYC boutique contradicted what Pierre/the brand was preaching and what Journe himself intended the CB to be.

[stonejordan]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Curious then, what was your first Journe and when did you acquire it?

All I can say is, I have been active in the community. I have written a lengthy letter on my application to show my enthusiasm and interest. Only to be told flat out by the boutique that they prioritize existing customers, flying in the face of what they are saying to everyone else.

You may have anecdotal evidence, but I can tell you for 100% certainty that the NYC boutique contradicted what Pierre/the brand was preaching and what Journe himself intended the CB to be.

Not the poster above, but I acquired my CB around 2018. 10 month wait. No prior purchase history. However, I have been (and remain) extremely active in the community (visited my main boutique at least once a month; attended all of their events; also visited all of the other boutiques in the US several times a year, and several other others internationally).

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by stonejordan

Not the poster above, but I acquired my CB around 2018. 10 month wait. No prior purchase history. However, I have been (and remain) extremely active in the community (visited my main boutique at least once a month; attended all of their events; also visited all of the other boutiques in the US several times a year, and several other others internationally).

I think, unfortunately, things have changed since then. It's virtually impossible for a newcomer to now acquire one of the highly desirable watches without becoming an established customer first. I'm not necessarily saying there's anything wrong with that, prioritizing existing customers is certainly defensible.

[CFR]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Watching live now, and enjoying hearing some wonderfully frank and honest talk.

Agreed, Steven. Pierre's a great guy, and I love that he's never tried to push the brand, even before all the recent interest. He's candid, well-informed, well-spoken, and a ton of fun!

I was smiling when he was talking about European Watch Company. I had visited EWC in their new location (they moved in December) a few weeks ago and was talking with some of the guys there about FPJ. We were joking about how CB's used to sit in their case for weeks at $18K. There's something wrong with a world in which the preowned market values a simple CB at 5x the price of a Lange 1815 (they were about the same price til a few years ago, preowned).

Originally Posted by JR16

Looking forward to hanging out at the new Maison in NYC whenever it opens.

Does anyone know the exact location of the new Maison? I forgot to ask.

[I'm hoping it's somewhere near Midtown and not waaaay downtown.]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

All I can say is, I have been active in the community. I have written a lengthy letter on my application to show my enthusiasm and interest. Only to be told flat out by the boutique that they prioritize existing customers, flying in the face of what they are saying to everyone else.

How frustrating! I really hope they deliver that CB to you soon.

[Just1More]

The new MAISON will be at 53 MERCER. SOHO area.


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[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by CFR

I was smiling when he was talking about European Watch Company. I had visited EWC in their new location (they moved in December) a few weeks ago and was talking with some of the guys there about FPJ. We were joking about how CB's used to sit in their case for weeks at $18K. There's something wrong with a world in which the preowned market values a simple CB at 5x the price of a Lange 1815 (they were about the same price til a few years ago, preowned).

Niiice, how is Albert's new location? Yes indeed the market has lost its friggen mind. Then again all those trillions in newly created currency have to land somewhere.

Am of two thoughts:

1. Growth is very easy right now, yet beware! The financial hangover could get seriously ugly, so a bit of prudent caution is wise. Grow a company too big too fast in this environment would be a mistake; better to build infrastructure to ensure a company's longevity.

2. Let's be grateful all these tr€££ion$ have fueled the most creative time within horology in a long, long time. We're getting familiar with many more truly talented watchmakers too.

Ignoring #1 because we've all been through 2008, and the 1995 Asian crash, and the whole crazy 1980s in ALL its forms....

#2 is very exciting! From 'inexpensive' passion plays to mind-boggling designs I don't believe would have been capable/possible just 20 years ago. While I'd like to be soooo angry at the crazy market, that same craziness seems to be bringing more youth into choosing to be watchmakers, or at a minimum bringing it into their thoughts. Frankly, luxury home audio could use some of this PR push.

My FPJ love would be their Centigraphe Calibre 1506 in 18k 6N gold on bracelet. Let us all take a moment to fully appreciate this fantastic chonographe. Am not sure the wait for one, yet 2022 already has a Czapek Monochrome, and 2023 is the MB&F LM101... (plus a few other 'normal' pieces over the months including my wife's Rolex TIF we're waiting on). FPJ is 2024 at the soonest, perhaps 2025.

So, how is EWC's new digs? Hey, did you ever buy his book, the pics and info are spectacular!!!

[Just1More]

Does anyone know where a price list is published? THE HOUR GLASS website used to have the prices and now they took them down and now say ENQUIRE.


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[F131F]

Originally Posted by Just1More

Does anyone know where a price list is published? THE HOUR GLASS website used to have the prices and now they took them down and now say ENQUIRE.

You need to call a boutique for pricing.

[Just1More]

Originally Posted by F131F

You need to call a boutique for pricing.

I was looking for a published list for public viewing. It is unlikely they will fax one. Or I could just call for a couple of prices.


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[gliazzurri]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I wrote a lengthy description to FP of what the watch would mean to me. Since then, I’ve went into that NYC boutique and struck up numerous conversations with the manager to show I am an “enthusiast”.

I think this entire concept is totally messed up. It is straight up bizarre to have to write an essay fundamentally to get something like this. I understand the market, the production, the interest, the supply and demand conversations that happen here or on car forums but seriously…if you take a step back and ask yourselves what are we really doing here by having to go through such machinations to buy a watch? Or a car etc? It is borderline absurd. No, it is absurd. Some brands requiring a one page book report to determine if you are good enough. Others wanting to know your income or similar profile material. This sort of nonsense ruins the experience for those without the street cred already because you can’t even pay to play and I also think it just gives the whole industry a bad rap. The discussions of 4, 5, 9, n years to buy a fill in the blank watch to be on a waitlist is just crazy. If it is like that, don’t have a list. Don’t tell people to wait. One is not getting it and no one except for the chosen ones will have it for half a decade. Or more. I’ve had these situations come up and readily moved on. They should just say no. Don’t give impressions that will not be managed realistically.

[gliazzurri]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

But, at the end of the day, they are no better than the practices employed by AP, RM, etc. They shouldn’t be commended for lip service while practicing AP-level tactics.

Excellent point and agreed.

[marcusgoh]

I find it hilarious that these “enthusiasts” are calling the brand hypocritical just because they are not allocated one of the most popular yet one of the most affordable watch in the collection as a first purchase. The CB’s list price is probably not far off from the cost of making that watch.

And chances are once these “enthusiasts” get it, will they continue supporting the brand in purchasing other pieces? I have my doubts.

How is this model sustainable for a business? It doesn’t sounds like those are enthusiasts of the brand; but rather enthusiasts of just a model.

[mchen42]

Agreed. They are just the most basic models from Journe.

Originally Posted by marcusgoh

I find it hilarious that these “enthusiasts” are calling the brand hypocritical just because they are not allocated one of the most popular yet one of the most affordable watch in the collection as a first purchase. The CB’s list price is probably not far off from the cost of making that watch.

And chances are once these “enthusiasts” get it, will they continue supporting the brand in purchasing other pieces? I have my doubts.

How is this model sustainable for a business? It doesn’t sounds like those are enthusiasts of the brand; but rather enthusiasts of just a model.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by marcusgoh

I find it hilarious that these “enthusiasts” are calling the brand hypocritical just because they are not allocated one of the most popular yet one of the most affordable watch in the collection as a first purchase. The CB’s list price is probably not far off from the cost of making that watch.

And chances are once these “enthusiasts” get it, will they continue supporting the brand in purchasing other pieces? I have my doubts.

How is this model sustainable for a business? It doesn’t sounds like those are enthusiasts of the brand; but rather enthusiasts of just a model.

By Journe's own account, the CB was meant to be the gateway watch; the watch for newcomers to get into the brand. We are told he apparently hates what has become of the CB, it is not what he intended it to be. The company is also saying they are trying to foster and "cultivate" a community of watch enthusiasts. In practice, they are allocating the watches to existing customers at the expense of newcomers. That is the antithesis of what they are preaching. Hence the hypocrisy.

You can choose to drink the kool-aid all you want. I'm not here to argue what the best business practice would be. I'm not here to argue if newcomers would turn around and buy other watches. Im stating the very clear fact that this brand does not practice what they preach.

While we are on the subject of "enthusiasts". I identified the CB as a watch I would like to have 3.5 years ago (when I was 31). I apologize if I didn't have the money at 31 for a resonance or tourbillon to prove my loyalty. I apologize that I didn't have the funds to outright buy one in my late 20s when they were readily available. I guess that doesn't make me an enthusiast. I also love that existing customers (or people with unlimited funds to buy their way in) who realized they want a CB in 2021 get priority over me. They are true enthusiasts, right?

At the end of the day, the brands should tread carefully how they treat potential new customers. By and large, they are alienating younger customers who will become the majority buyers in 15 years.