F.P. Journe Chronometer Bleu pricing going through the roof!

[Mills_]

Is a lower serial number more desirable if there are known issues with the lower serial numbers?

[jenniferjanef]

Originally Posted by GB-man

That last bit is pretty stupid if you ask me. All things equal I would want the lowest number possible.

Not saying you’re incorrect I have no idea just stating my thoughts on early vs late production of any watch.

Well that’s what I observed from the preowned market.. particularly full set from 2019 and later are asking for top money.

[unknown]

Originally Posted by jenniferjanef

Well that’s what I observed from the preowned market.. particularly full set from 2019 and later are asking for top money.

Sometimes the first examples are more expensive sometimes the last

Take the 5711 steel... the 2019-2020 are definitely more expensive than a 2006-2008-....
Maybe because of the hacking second ?

Concerning the FPJ CB.... no idea if there is a big difference between a 2010 and 2019
If so.... maybe the 2019-2020 were ment for special clients cause afaik around that time they did not take extra orders and a bit later I was told only VIP could order one.
Also today.... if you’re on the list you can forget it. Seems they don’t make or deliver them anymore unless you are a top FPJ client

[jenniferjanef]

Originally Posted by unknown

Sometimes the first examples are more expensive sometimes the last

Take the 5711 steel... the 2019-2020 are definitely more expensive than a 2006-2008-....
Maybe because of the hacking second ?

Concerning the FPJ CB.... no idea if there is a big difference between a 2010 and 2019
If so.... maybe the 2019-2020 were ment for special clients cause afaik around that time they did not take extra orders and a bit later I was told only VIP could order one.
Also today.... if you’re on the list you can forget it. Seems they don’t make or deliver them anymore unless you are a top FPJ client

I actually own 3 CB, 2011, 2019 and 2021.

I currently do not have excess to my 2011 and 2019 due to lockdown.. but the current 2021 I just received, the white seems to be more off-white/creamy than what I recalled from my other CBs.

I also agree what you mentioned very early and last batches are more collectible.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by unknown

Sometimes the first examples are more expensive sometimes the last

Take the 5711 steel... the 2019-2020 are definitely more expensive than a 2006-2008-....
Maybe because of the hacking second ?

True but this has more to do with 2019-2020 SS 5711s being still under warranty and often unworn IMO. Also the second hand could always be stopped with a little back pressure. Some sellers are asking for a little more for the very early 5711s as well with the low point in the 2010-2015 period.

One guy said I am lucky to own a rare 2018 transitional model with the latest dial but still the 324 movement. Doesn't matter as Patek buyers don't seem to care about such details. Lots of changes in 15 years - 315, 324, 330 movements, Geneva vs Patek seal, screws vs pins, various dials including the LED dial...

In the end any 5711 is trading at crazy prices as we speak just like the CB.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by ts3

True but this has more to do with 2019-2020 SS 5711s being still under warranty and often unworn IMO. Also the second hand could always be stopped with a little back pressure. Some sellers are asking for a little more for the very early 5711s as well with the low point in the 2010-2015 period.

One guy said I am lucky to own a rare 2018 transitional model with the latest dial but still the 324 movement. Doesn't matter as Patek buyers don't seem to care about such details. Lots of changes in 15 years - 315, 324, 330 movements, Geneva vs Patek seal, screws vs pins, various dials including the LED dial...

In the end any 5711 is trading at crazy prices as we speak just like the CB.

ts3 is 100% spot on with these observations. Only with Rolex is every nuanced design change in a model valued differently. With all other brands unless there is a major change, like a brass vs. gold movement, older models are worth less simply because they are older and likely to have more wear and be closer to needing a servicing. Owners of early 5711s have argued for the 315 movement and Geneva Seal making their versions special only to be met with yawns as newly minted blue dial 5711s command a premium.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by Mills_

Is a lower serial number more desirable if there are known issues with the lower serial numbers?

I would imagine early serial numbers like 8, 88, and 888 would be worth more than other serial numbers whether higher or lower.

[GB-man]

agreed the hype market doesn’t care about nuance like early vs late production in Patek but Journe literally numbers them sequentially which makes it a bit more easily identifiable. I think long term since there isn’t much to differentiate them by visually collectors will value really early examples like the one sold naked here.

Then again what the hell do I know

[lanteanflux]

I think for CB as there’s no obvious Mach 2 (though some people have tried to argue for it) that later and newer is simply more desirable as it’s fresher - unless the number is something like single digits then earlier wouldn’t be more desirable.

However for basically all other FPJ watches I’d think the earlier are more desirable, not least because they’re nicer imo than current production versions (thinking octo lune, tourbilllon, resonance etc)


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[llngoc]

Originally Posted by unknown

Sometimes the first examples are more expensive sometimes the last

Take the 5711 steel... the 2019-2020 are definitely more expensive than a 2006-2008-....
Maybe because of the hacking second ?

Concerning the FPJ CB.... no idea if there is a big difference between a 2010 and 2019
If so.... maybe the 2019-2020 were ment for special clients cause afaik around that time they did not take extra orders and a bit later I was told only VIP could order one.
Also today.... if you’re on the list you can forget it. Seems they don’t make or deliver them anymore unless you are a top FPJ client

How is a top client being defined? Someone who’s been with the brand since the early days or someone already owned a few pieces?

I think FPJ does not care where you got the pieces (boutique vs AD vs auction). Is that correct?

[Bloomberg]

At this price level, I will never pay for a Watch without paper.
I think I am not alone. That explains the discount.

[lanteanflux]

I’d also literally never heard of loupethis until that post in this forum which I think explains the majority of the discount… if a CB is auctioned in a forest but no one was there to bid it, did it make a sound?

As for box and papers and provenance, FPJ can actually verify if it’s lost or stolen before you purchase it if you can get your hands on the serial number so this would waylay concerns of no box and papers a lot I think. I would certainly take a 40k discount for no box and papers in this case I think haha that’s one expensive box.


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[rockdrock]

So lately I noticed 15 CBs in C24 with prices decreasing 15%. Overlooking these price for a sec, what’s up with the offloading from owners?

Any ideas why so many out there now? Oddly no Resonance s?

[gliazzurri]

Realizing that the bubble will burst and getting out of position probably.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by rockdrock

So lately I noticed 15 CBs in C24 with prices decreasing 15%. Overlooking these price for a sec, what’s up with the offloading from owners?

Any ideas why so many out there now? Oddly no Resonance s?

As I’ve said before I feel there’s just a lot of them in circulation relative to other Journe references. Name an automatic Journe that’s been produced unchanged in greater numbers.

[GB-man]

Meant to say mechanical ie) non quartz

[fourtaelsgold]

Originally Posted by GB-man

As I’ve said before I feel there’s just a lot of them in circulation relative to other Journe references. Name an automatic Journe that’s been produced unchanged in greater numbers.

I think CS are most certainly produced in greater numbers

[Parapraxis]

Originally Posted by jenniferjanef

I actually own 3 CB, 2011, 2019 and 2021.

I currently do not have excess to my 2011 and 2019 due to lockdown.. but the current 2021 I just received, the white seems to be more off-white/creamy than what I recalled from my other CBs.

I also agree what you mentioned very early and last batches are more collectible.

Damn, you trying to sell any?

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by fourtaelsgold

I think CS are most certainly produced in greater numbers

Yeah prob the platinum and rose gold with the whitened guilloché silver dials. They been around what 17 years. The CB has to be up there though. Definitely not low total production by FPJ standards seeing as the formula hasn’t really been tweaked from what I can tell over the years. Im sure an expert could tell me there’s some variances.

[Skyrider01]

Based on serial numbers of recently produced CBs and CSs, my guesstimate is that there are around 1600 CBs and 2000 CSs.

But the CSs include several different variants (RG, PT, and different dial colors). And CBs are all the same.

So as GB-man implied a few posts above, the CB seems to be the most produced automatic Journe reference.

[Bloomberg]

Automatic?

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Bloomberg

Automatic?

Lol I made that mistake as well. I’m so use to saying automatic as shorthand for mechanical. Silly and wrong of course. Particularly when I’ve been buying and loving so many manual winds lately.

[dh1]

Looks like they are hovering in the $90k-110k range at most dealers again after having dropped to the $80k range for a few months.

[lanteanflux]

Originally Posted by dh1

Looks like they are hovering in the $90k-110k range at most dealers again after having dropped to the $80k range for a few months.

Think they were mostly 100+ except for private sellers. But not many are trading there it seems. The one listing which surprised me was EWC had one for 90 at low end of range and that just got bought by looks.


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[DGB]

16 CB for sale on C24, never saw so many for sale.

I have noticed EWC dropped their price recently from $100k to upper 80.

A sign of time changing?


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[JR16]

Originally Posted by DGB

16 CB for sale on C24, never saw so many for sale.

I have noticed EWC dropped their price recently from $100k to upper 80.

A sign of time changing?


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I’m not surprised at that number - once a sub $30k watch starts selling for triple , I think a lot of owners who haven’t totally bonded with it start thinking about those numbers. I don’t think you would see that many for sale if they were selling in the $40s.


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[shafran]

but I sold my Journe due to the insane price increase for the 1 year I owned it.

[Bloomberg]

The CB is an awesome watch. Very qualitative, very rare.
Market will decide the price.
From my point of view, once it will be discontinued, it will reach 150/180 ke or more.
If I was an investor (I am not) I would take 2 CB in addition to my CB.
You can say : price is decreased, price is decreasing, price begin to decrease, price will decrease. It will not. Small price fluctuation on a non liquid watch, that’s all.

[edhahn44]

What’s the current view on the CB? I’ve the feeling that the market softened quite a bit recently and pieces are not really moving.
Seems like, given the comparably high production numbers and the relatively unpretentious appearance vs a Nautilus or RO, that all real connoisseurs have now one and the rest is interested in other watches.
I’ve also heard they’ll continue production for some years which doesn’t help the price development either.


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[daytonaTBR]

Still a bargain compared to the 5711