Random serial numbers- for or against, and why?

[toolr]

I think anyone buying a new watch from an AD that says it doesn't matter the serial number is being somewhat disingenuous. Given two identical watches sitting in the display case, one a F serial and one a V serial I think all but a few who do not know watches or do not like the rehaut engraving would opt for the V serial. The lubricants are fresher and the watch would normally be less case worn and handled.

[Perdu]

I'm with Padi on this.

[toolr]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

Whilst I appreciate the analogy, it's not quite the same as what's happening with Rolex. In your analogy, it'd be the same as, for example, selling a 16200 BNIB for the same price as a 116200 through an AD. This simply doesn't happen - when models are discontinued, they remain at the old price (with relative price increases if there's a universal rise), and are not sold at the same price as the new model.

The issue that people have with Rolex is that they could be selling a watch that's been sitting in stock for an extended period of time for the same price as one that's come direct from the factory. I don't have a problem with this - the watch isn't in use, modern lubricants don't dry out anywhere near as quickly as older oils, and if it's been looked after properly by AD staff, it'll be in perfect condition. It won't affect the running of the watch, and even if it did, there's a two year warranty to cover this. The problem is, serial number hysteria is becoming a serious problem for ADs - why should they order another watch when there's a perfectly good one in stock, just to get a perceived "newer" case stamp? It makes no business sense whatsoever - ADs have to make a living as well, and the margins aren't as big as you'd think.

Take, for example, the case in this thread: the 116200 hasn't changed at all, a D serial is identical to a V serial. The client got a factory fresh watch direct from Rolex, but this wasn't seen as good enough. As far as Rolex (and myself) are concerned, the client was getting a brand new Datejust, yet the growing opinion is that unless it's the latest serial number, it's not good enough. This is simply ludicrous, and I'm looking forward to not having to deal with such nonsense any more


Just my

The simple fact is..."the customer is always right", and in this case it means if he/she decides they do not want to pay current retail price for a five year old watch and instead wants a current serial number instead well that's their prerogative. I for one will not pay current price for a five year old Datejust, I do not care what the AD thinks. I'll just go to another AD if that's what it takes.

[BDSmith]

I wonder if there are really enough people that are picky about the serial number to justify this of if it's to keep the dealers off their backs?

You ask the year when buying a used watch, but I'm not sure how many people I know that would ask on a brand new watch. I could very well see the dealer going "Nuh uh, this is old. We want a newer one to put on the shelf."

It's going to screw up the used market. Having "papers" now is going to mean a lot more so you can prove when it was purchased at the very least.

[Speed]

Yup...B&P will be so important that you can count on the fakers going to town on these items more than today.

[Singslinger]

Originally Posted by Perdu

I'm with Padi on this.

Yup, so am I. No other watch brand's fans are as concerned with serial numbers as are Rolex's fans.

It's their serial numbering system and they're free to do what they want with it.

[C. Davidson]

For it.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by chris russell

However, you won't have to look very far on this very Forum for a post from a disgruntled recipient of a gift Rolex that his wife was led to believe was new, but turned out to be several years old. And she indeed paid more than the watch's original MSRP, despite being told she was getting a 'discount'.

I can absolutely GUARANTEE that tt Rolexes, and especially gold Rolexes, COMMONLY stay in inventory for five or MORE years before moving. If you can give me a logical reason why the customer should be PREVENTED from knowing the production date of a watch he/she is spending hard-earned money on, I will shut up. But we know that won't happen because there is none. I can accept that the vast majority of customers may not care, and that's their prerogative, but to PREVENT me from knowing, when service costs $800? Can't happen.

So, seriously, Padi, please answer the question.

Like I stated in several post yes there will be a minority of Rolex watches sitting in safes or shelves longer that the faster moving Rolex thats a fact of life.But if not used not a problem modern oils do not dry up like the older mineral types.And wonder what you would buy say a new watch unused say at AD for 5 years,or one thats been on winder for 5 years.And regarding the price rises well thats in every walk of life.When you have a petrol rise it normally goes up and if the seller has 30000 gallons in his stations tanks or well and good for him but bad for you.But very occasionally petrol goes down so swings and roundabouts.Regarding Rolex watches world wide there are a very very very very small proportion of watches 5 years old at AD.Say Rolex produces 500,000 Cal 3135 movements a year how do you know that movement is older newer in a particular date case or has been sitting on Rolex shelves for a few years.With movements being tested at COSC returning from COSC and the failed movements sent back to Rolex.Then Rolex re-oil re calibrate sent back for testing then returned who knows how old that particular movements is.All you got is a Internet code giving a rough indication when a case was stamped.When you go and buy say a TV you don't ask the salesman when that TV was made.Same for most other goods bought if you went out and say bought a Seiko high end, or volume seller, you would not ask when the watch was made.Its only Rolex you get this silly case date stuff I buy Rolex because I like the brand.But many today just think of will I make £££$$$ on this watch, now IMHO they just wear a brand, instead of a Rolex watch.

[BigWatchFan]

Originally Posted by Singslinger

Yup, so am I. No other watch brand's fans are as concerned with serial numbers as are Rolex's fans.

It's their serial numbering system and they're free to do what they want with it.

Yes, I agree completely. It's their system and they can change it as they please. Conversely, it's also our right to disagree wholeheartedly. And loudly. (for all the good it will do...)

And the reason no other watch brand has these issues with serial numbers is that Rolex's code was cracked and it gave the consumer some very valuable information that other manufacturers did not have to deal with.

Rolex now seeks to take back that information.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by MortgageGuy

I think it is terrible...: I dont believe anyone is alright with this new "system". It is geared to make more $$$ for the Ad's and screw the consumer... If you say your ok with it, let me ask you this...

Its 2010, are you ok buying a BRAND NEW 2002 Mercedes Benz E Class for $60,000.00 USD (the 2010 price)? WHY NOT??? Its brand new and has a full factory warranty...so what if the features are slightly different or the body style has changed ever so slightly... ITS BRAND NEW!!!

Come on, give me a break this is bad for the consumer, you know it, I know it... PERIOD

If I buy it, will I get a new set of tyres, belts, aircon seals, battery, all fluids and a free yellow paint job, etc etc,
IMO that was a great analogy.

[Tek]

[padi56]

Originally Posted by BigWatchFan

Yes, I agree completely. It's their system and they can change it as they please. Conversely, it's also our right to disagree wholeheartedly. And loudly. (for all the good it will do...)

And the reason no other watch brand has these issues with serial numbers is that Rolex's code was cracked and it gave the consumer some very valuable information that other manufacturers did not have to deal with.

Rolex now seeks to take back that information.

Yes and all those many many other high and low end brands selling millions upon millions of watches over the decades.Its only the Rolex buyer in the last around 20 years have been obsessed with the holograms and case date stamps.

[Tek]

I'm not buying another Rolex until they fix this by that time I should be able to afford another one

[Andad]

Originally Posted by padi56

Yes and all those many many other high and low end brands selling millions upon millions of watches over the decades.Its only the Rolex buyer in the last around 20 years have been obsessed with the holograms and case date stamps.

I agree and from next year all used Rolex watches with random s/n's might be BNIB.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by C. Davidson

For it.

Why???

[chris russell]

main to put a positive 'spin' on something, using every kind of convoluted reasoning, twisting the truth, obfuscating, dithering, etc., when it's patently obvious even to newborns that it's complete hogwash, the word I use to describe the tactic is 'quacking'.

Is it feeding time at the duck farm around here?

As I said, I don't even believe the supporters of this 'random serial number' policy, let alone agree with them.

[MortgageGuy]

Originally Posted by directioneng

If I buy it, will I get a new set of tyres, belts, aircon seals, battery, all fluids and a free yellow paint job, etc etc,
IMO that was a great analogy.

Absolutely, free oil changes for life too That is because your buying the white elephant This must be what the AD says when someone walks out with there 5 year old DD with an additional 7k added to the watch for price increases over the years and then they charge them full price too

You guys for the new "random serial"... Anyone looking to refinance their home??? I have 18% mortgages... we are using rates from the early 80's but there still FIXED rates

I agree that it is Rolex policy and they can do what they wish but that doesnt mean I have to like it... Again, I am not upset with Rolex, I am sick and tired of hearing people justify why an AD should charge todays full price for a 5 year old watch... How can this be??? And then tell me they wont discount Thats a good one

[padi56]

Originally Posted by MortgageGuy

Absolutely, free oil changes for life too That is because your buying the white elephant This must be what the AD says when someone walks out with there 5 year old DD with an additional 7k added to the watch for price increases over the years and then they charge them full price too

You guys for the new "random serial"... Anyone looking to refinance their home??? I have 18% mortgages... we are using rates from the early 80's but there still FIXED rates

I agree that it is Rolex policy and they can do what they wish but that doesnt mean I have to like it... Again, I am not upset with Rolex, I am sick and tired of hearing people justify why an AD should charge todays full price for a 5 year old watch... How can this be??? And then tell me they wont discount:Barton::Barton::Barton::Barton: Thats a good one:Barton::Barton::Barton:

Have you any positive proof first of any watches being 5 years old at ADs except for the one recorded incident on TRF.The amount of Rolex watches being over 6-9 months at AD must be very very small.Its only the precious metal diamond and possible some TT models could hang about at AD.And yes on those there could have been some price hikes by Rolex.Its the same for retail goods at say supermarkets you get your price increases the price goes up on all the stock at store.Myself and many others buy a Rolex watch and not a approx case date,and when bought new get the same 2 year warranty no matter what the case stamp was.Now what if Rolex stopped putting serials on there watches would we all stop buying Rolex watches I would doubt it.

[MortgageGuy]

Originally Posted by padi56

Have you any positive proof first of any watches being 5 years old at ADs except for the one recorded incident on TRF.The amount of Rolex watches being over 6-9 months at AD must be very very small.Its only the precious metal diamond and possible some TT models could hang about at AD.And yes on those there could have been some price hikes by Rolex.Its the same for retail goods at say supermarkets you get your price increases the price goes up on all the stock at store.Myself and many others buy a Rolex watch and not a approx case date,and when bought new get the same 2 year warranty no matter what the case stamp was.Now what if Rolex stopped putting serials on there watches would we all stop buying Rolex watches I would doubt it.

You are correct. I have seen quite a few D serial DJ's in AD cases about a month ago when I was looking for a new watch for my wife. I really dont have an issue with New/Old Stock I just have a difficult time with the increase of price for an older watch to an unsuspecting buyer... Thats all. I guess I have made my point...

You do have a point, I would NOT stop purchasing and I am certain no one else would either... I will just stomp my feet, scream and yell but at the end of the day I wont do a damn thing.

[DSJ]

Originally Posted by padi56

Lets be perfectly honest here Chris most of the Rolex watches especially sports types are not long enough at ADs to gather dust most are gone as soon as AD gets them in.

Though my F-Series Explorer II (with clasp code CL6) was first sold in Jan 2008. It has an older-style warranty card and older style box, so it was likely assembled YEARS (3+) before initial purchase.

(Luckily the original owner didn't like it, returned it shortly afterwards, paid a restocking and I got a screaming deal - Thanks "Dr. Tom!" The only thing missing was the Swimpruf tag and I called Dr Tom to try and recover - no luck.)

[Dr.Brian]

Originally Posted by chris russell

turned out to have been in stock on the dealer's shelf for five years, (VERY possible), and its timing started deteriorating two days after the warranty expired showing it needed a full service right away?

What if the price had gone up by 35% during the time it was sitting on the shelf, and thus you paid MORE than its original MSRP, rather than getting the 'discount' you thought you bargained for?

And what if, unbeknownst to you, Rolex had in the time since it was made, included a small change in the dial or the movement that was considered desirable by the Rolex community, and that reduced the value of your 'new' five-year-old watch by 30 or 40%?

Would you still be completely OK with it all?

It's warrantied for two years from purchase. It doesn't matter if it is 2 months since production or 2 years. There is already confusion with when the solid gold watches were produced. I think the tables really only apply to the high turn over steel models anyway, and even than, they are a guideline only. How do we know that a Z was put together in early 2007 or late 2008. Why not 2009? No one but rolex knows, and they don't say. They do guarantee it for 2 years from the time of purchase though. That's good enough for me. Does it have the most modern movement, etc? Yes? Fine. The serial number means nothing.
BTW the analogy to cars is false as they would not survive years of non use, and they also change significantly each year. A Rolex doesn't have that problem.
If ADs really have several dozen Rolex watches in the back safe collecting dust for several years, they won't be around long anyway.
I don't see this as a problem. The second hand and/or gray market may have some problems as they cannot prove age with non existent or unfilled paperwork. That's their problem. Perhaps they will have to throw in a professional exam, lube and pressure check with each watch. That would probably benefit everyone in the long run anyway. Price goes up a couple hundred, so what? I expect that folks will start faking sales slips now, to try to prove their watch is "nearly new". No original papers = no known age. Watches with original stamped papers and confirmatory sales documentation will probably have a bit more value. I bought a Z SD in late 09, it was a pristine safe queen, tight, unmarred and apparently untouched. Two M's I looked at were obviously a bit shopworn, one more than the other. Who got the new watch? When was mine assembled? Who's to say that it was not made in 2009 from the last run of some "old" cases? When did production of the SD really stop? How long are watches waiting fully assembled in Geneva before they go out? What about the really low volume sellers? No one knows. Well someone does, but they're not talking. Now they really don't have to. They could offer a service to give you the year of original sale if they wanted. It could generate some $$. Send the watch to them and for $100 they date the serial number. And while it's here, if you get a full service, we give you the date certification for free...
This might hurt gray market sales. Good strategy from Geneva.