Picked up a couple Rolexes that I am dubious about...

[Prester John]

Originally Posted by gqllc

If the hands move clockwise when you turn the crown clockwise that is the real deal then. ETA movements are the opposite...Turn crown clockwise and hands move counterclockwise in ETA....My offer still stands on the 30K

If you had been in a mall jewelery store a few weeks ago I would have jumped at the offer. hahaha! I am not a good rolex owner, because I wear any watch I have everyday while welding, shooting, or anything else I may be doing. Anything I get is going to be used to the max.

D

[esm]

Originally Posted by Prester John

If you had been in a mall jewelery store a few weeks ago I would have jumped at the offer. hahaha! I am not a good rolex owner, because I wear any watch I have everyday while welding, shooting, or anything else I may be doing. Anything I get is going to be used to the max.

D

I'm pretty sure any Rolex will be able to out-live you while doing whatever you are doing.

Here is another offer for you - since you are not a good Rolex owner, I'm happy to sell all of my 12 G Shocks in exchange for your USD$30k....

[BOA]

Originally Posted by gqllc

If the hands move clockwise when you turn the crown clockwise that is the real deal then. ETA movements are the opposite...Turn crown clockwise and hands move counterclockwise in ETA....My offer still stands on the 30K

It should be noted that the above statement is not valid for all Rolex movements. For example, the hands on my Explorer I turn counter-clockwise when I wind the crown clockwise, and it's certainly not a fake in any way, so there are obviously exceptions to the rule.

[gqllc]

Not so sure that is true. I think all men's movements since 1988 go clockwise. That is why I say modern movements. Women's dont apply. The last explorer I had from 2002 went clockwise

[Ebruner]

Originally Posted by BOA

It should be noted that the above statement is not valid for all Rolex movements. For example, the hands on my Explorer I turn counter-clockwise when I wind the crown clockwise, and it's certainly not a fake in any way, so there are obviously exceptions to the rule.

What movement do you have in the explorer??

-Eddie

[BOA]

I'm not sure which movement it has, but I bought it 6-21-94, and the serial is N443XXX. Does that help identify the movement? It's been in for full service several times. Trust me. When I wind it clockwise, the hands go counterclockwise, and it's the real deal.

I just looked up the N serial, and it started in Nov. 1991, so I suppose one might think my watch might have sat around a couple of years. But I bought it at Smart Jewelers in Lincolnwood, IL, which was a very busy Rolex AD at that time, so my guess would be that it sat at Rolex.

[gqllc]

Explorer II?????? I think N series is around 1991 or so.

[gqllc]

I think 3185 movement was introduced in 1988. I have never seen one where the hands go counterclockwise when moving the crown clockwise to set the time.

[BOA]

My Explorer II is an "S" serial, which was 1993. Wound clockwise, hands go clockwise.

My Explorer I is an "N" serial, which was 1991, but I bought it new in June, 1994. Wound clockwise, hands go counterclockwise.

You mentioned you thought all movements since 1988 go clockwise. 1991 was only three years later. Maybe Rolex was still easing the new movements into the line, which would make sense given how the company seems to like to transition slowly rather than to suddenly change gears.

Now I'm hoping my Explorer I is a very rare and coveted watch, but that never happens to me, so I'm guessing all the N serial Explorers operate like mine.

[xjeeunitx]

I don't know what others are thinking but that Sub looks pretty damn real to me. From the pictures... I can't tell anything different from my own Sub?

Anyone want to point out why they think it is.....?

[gqllc]

I am not sure about "all" but every sports model both SS, TT, and all gold I have only seen do this. The same goes for my datejusts!

[BOA]

I spoke with my friend at the AD where I now buy and send my Rolexes through for service, told him about this discussion and gave him all the information on my Explorer. He's calling Rolex next week to find out what he can regarding Rolex's timetable for switching movements from clockwise/counterclockwise to clockwise/clockwise, and I'll post back here after I talk with him.

[gqllc]

Looking forward to hearing what they have to say. Maybe you have the earlier caliber in yours??

[BOA]

I think that it must be the earlier movement, which makes it extremely rare and historically important, right?

[kyle L]

Can't tell from the pictures... Only real way to see if they are real is to get them both opened up and post pictures. Good luck.

[Grissom]

Looking forward to seeing how this all resolves. As others have said, and having worked extensively abroad, extremely well paid, and such, in equally dicey locations in South America, I must say I would not be quite as calm, at potentially having lost $30,000.00. When I am paid well, in order to put my life on the line, in another country, I definitely value each and every dollar I earn!

Do post the final word, Prestor John, when you have it!

[brkanand]

Most members feel these are fakes. Sorry you ended up paying a hefty sum to buy them?

[Andelain]

Originally Posted by rolexfan11

You guys are calling this guy out without providing any evidence. And I doubt he is some guy trying to get trade secrets to perfect some replica in china....both of these are legit, milgauss is ugly as hell but gen

let me tell you why, on the millie, not one fake has the lightning bolt edges on the second hand pointy like it is here...the crystal looks green not just green coating, and the engraving is spot on though some of the reps have this right

The sub is most likely legit, or at the least a franken replica of sorts. The insert has a nice pearl in a correct shaped triangle. The cyclops looks right with AR, and correct mag, date font looks right, the rehaut looks aligned though the font MAY be a tad bit large, the markers are correct shape, most get these looking way wrong, and the hour hand is correct, again a common tell. If the pics were a bit larger on the sub, I could tell for sure.

I hope you're right and they're both real. It'd be nice to see the OP vindicated after some of the crap that's been slung at him in this thread.

[jnkay]

All fishy things aside, anybody NOT think the sub is fake? It looks completely legit to me, and I know how to spot a copy. The Milgaus is another story, of course.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by BOA

My Explorer II is an "S" serial, which was 1993. Wound clockwise, hands go clockwise.

My Explorer I is an "N" serial, which was 1991, but I bought it new in June, 1994. Wound clockwise, hands go counterclockwise.

You mentioned you thought all movements since 1988 go clockwise. 1991 was only three years later. Maybe Rolex was still easing the new movements into the line, which would make sense given how the company seems to like to transition slowly rather than to suddenly change gears.

Now I'm hoping my Explorer I is a very rare and coveted watch, but that never happens to me, so I'm guessing all the N serial Explorers operate like mine.

I think Rolex changing gears is the answer.

[smith one]

Originally Posted by Prester John

Allow me to clarify a few things:

1) I'm in an area of work that kind of requires I be vague on some of the details here. I am not trolling or Phishing or trying to find out how to make a better fake. I am simply in a line of work where my professional and personal dealings are best not openly discussed.

2) I paid full Rolex retail on them, as I was led to believe they were the real thing. Something I felt quite confident of after a brief look at the catalogue.

3) I am embarrassed, but I did my internet reading and these watches didn't have any of the things I usually see as glaring "fake" signatures, so I bit. I came here because I was certain you gentlemen, and or ladies would have a more trained eye than myself.

4) To answer the previous gentlemen, I was sure the Milgauss was not going to be worth its full amount even if it WAS a rolex, because it had the modded black coating and the saphire bezel. I just happened to like it, so i went ahead and bought it. Does that make more sense? I wasn't trying to make conflicting statements, just that I was aware to a true collector, this watch wouldn't be worth anything.

EDIT: Where I am, I'd do better to hire a hit squad than to hire an "advocat"... unfortunate reality of being in an unpleasant geographical area.

OMG!!! Do you work for the C.I.A.!! Puh Leeze!!!

[toph]

I am another who for the life of me cannot see one thing that makes either of them a fake. Badly modded milgauss yeah BUT on both
End links seem good, dials seem good, stampings seem good , script seems good.

[BOA]

Looking at the Milgauss, fourth picture down, I have concerns about the thickness of the crystal. Comparing it to mine at the same angle, using a flashlight and even taking a picture with a flash, no matter what I do, I cannot get the same thickness of the crystal above the rehaut at 12:00, which makes me wonder about it.

Also, at the angle of the picture, the markers at 5:00 and 7:00 are just touching the bottom edge of the crystal. When I tilt mine to achieve the same look, it is a much more severe angle, and the crystal at the bottom rises higher than in the picture.

In any case, the bezel in the picture is ridiculous, and one might argue that it throws off the whole identification process, but I'm sitting here comparing my absolutely authentic one to the pictures, and I'm not convinced the Milgauss is real.

Also, comparing the sub to my ceramic Hulk, the numbers on the bezel in the pictures are slightly thicker than on mine. Unless someone tells me that the numbers on the green and black ceramic sub bezels are slightly different, then I have reasonable doubts on the authenticity of the sub in the pictures as well.

[kyle L]

Originally Posted by toph

I am another who for the life of me cannot see one thing that makes either of them a fake. Badly modded milgauss yeah BUT on both
End links seem good, dials seem good, stampings seem good , script seems good.

Like I said, open it up and it'll be clear!

[BOA]

Well, the first answer back from my AD who called Rolex is that my Explorer shouldn't be doing that (winding clockwise/counterclockwise), and they want me to send it in for service. I'm having him call back and ask more specific questions because it's running fine. I'd like to know if it's possible it is a earlier movement and also whether it could have been reassembled incorrectly and do that. Very mystifying first response because I believe it's been doing that since day one (1994).

[08pirate]

Looks legit to me! Everything is too "crisply" put together. The bezel insert looks spot on so do bezel teeth. Hope there's a Rolex movement inside

[BOA]

OK, got the definitive answer, first from my AD, who made a second call, and from Rolex after I was invited to call if I had any further questions, which I did. Basically, I have the Caliber 3000, which goes clockwise/counterclockwise. The Caliber 3100 replaced it, but not until the year 2000, so anyone with an Explorer I purchased before 2000 may find that the hands go counterclockwise when setting the time by turning the crown clockwise.

I spoke with the manager of service for Rolex in New York, who said she had just encountered one like mine this morning. So there it is. Not as rare as I'd hoped, and no free service to put it back together right. It is right for the movement. By the way, she also indicated there are several other movements that operate like mine in other models, but I'm sorry to say I forgot to ask which models and whether any of those are still current or when they were phased out. Sounds like a topic for its own thread.

[conrail]

Originally Posted by Prester John

I saw the milgauss for sale from a supposedly reputable online vendor and thought it might have been a "modified" real one. The Sub has the etching in the crystal so I thought it was fine, especially since they both came with warranty cards and in "genuine rolex boxes". I feel foolish for not seeing the obvious... and poorer. HA! What are the big tells?

D

If you can casually/esily see the etching on the crystal without optical aid, it is fake. Post some clearer pics.

People use light tricks, cameras, loupes, etc. and still can't see their etched coronets FOR A REASON.

[gqllc]

Originally Posted by BOA

OK, got the definitive answer, first from my AD, who made a second call, and from Rolex after I was invited to call if I had any further questions, which I did. Basically, I have the Caliber 3000, which goes clockwise/counterclockwise. The Caliber 3100 replaced it, but not until the year 2000, so anyone with an Explorer I purchased before 2000 may find that the hands go counterclockwise when setting the time by turning the crown clockwise.

I spoke with the manager of service for Rolex in New York, who said she had just encountered one like mine this morning. So there it is. Not as rare as I'd hoped, and no free service to put it back together right. It is right for the movement. By the way, she also indicated there are several other movements that operate like mine in other models, but I'm sorry to say I forgot to ask which models and whether any of those are still current or when they were phased out. Sounds like a topic for its own thread.

I figured it had to be a caliber issues. 3185 from 1988 goes clockwise/clockwise.
I think 3185/3186/3187 is in most sport watches per say. Such as the ExplorerII, GMT, Yachtmaster, Submariner and it is in my Datejust. Not sure about the Sea Dweller, DSSD, Milgauss, airking, date, ladies watches..etc

[gqllc]

Since Prestor John answered my question about the hand movements I also believe those watches to be real.