I need your opinion on a bad transaction from TRF

[subtona]

Originally Posted by 77T

Ryan - thanks for your answer to my earlier question. By explaining this was a very recent deal, I was able to form an opinion free of any doubts.

Here is what I think:

1. The spread between retail value of a new Speedy Pro and the one you bought was very wide. I do not know the seller, but my first worry would be how he got it and why he would ask so little for a "new" watch.
   
2. The market value for your 2-month old PO would be about half the value of a pre-owned Speedy Pro.
   
3. The extra $400 you had to add into the deal is low; in a normal deal you might be asked to add something like $1000.
   
4. The seller does claim to be 25 years old, earns over 6 figures, owns investment real estate and joined here in May, 2011 - his 20+posts before he started selling in August, 2011 gives no hint of a good reputation as a seller. I'd say he has a long way to go before becoming a trusted seller on TRF.
   
5. I can't join into a high-tech lynching - the other side of the story needs to be explained by the seller - but I'd say you got a good deal even if he had said it was previously worn.
   
6. Bottom line he should make it right without low-balling the settlement as it appears. But on the other hand I think you did get a good deal. I think you could resell it with honest pre-owned disclosure and not lose anything.

This example and a few others over the past few months indicates a voluntary "sellers code of ethics" may be worthwhile. In it the community ought to agree on the expectations we informally agree upon.

Buying from people with no track record is just risky and this deal outlines some of the risks - I hope you do get some consolation from my input.

Just my 2¢ - no harm meant to seller or buyer.

you make some good points...
i disagree on a bit though, the buyer sought out a good deal, cant fault him for that (if it sounds too good to be true.../ but sometimes there are just good deals????)
the seller advertised a product he was not selling with a questionable warranty... looking at the details, i would say it qualifies as fraud.

[rpryan55]

Twelve hours since the Seller searched this thread. More than enough time to post a reply if he was at all in the right. Time to post his name - it is only fair to the rest of us who do deals on TRF.

[77T]

Originally Posted by subtona

you make some good points...
i disagree on a bit though, the buyer sought out a good deal, cant fault him for that (if it sounds too good to be true.../ but sometimes there are just good deals????)
the seller advertised a product he was not selling with a questionable warranty... looking at the details, i would say it qualifies as fraud.

Understand. Didn't mean buyer did anything wrong by seeking good deal. Just meant my sonar would ping in similar circumstances.

But at the end of the day fraud is hard to say with what appears now to be NOS.

The long silence from seller is puzzling when he's been able to share his side for a while now.

[kilyung]

Seller should make right based on inaccurate description of the watch. To be honest, I would not have bought this piece based on the incongruencies between the pictures and description.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by 77T

Just meant my sonar would ping in similar circumstances...

The long silence from seller is puzzling when he's been able to share his side for a while now.

Originally Posted by kilyung

Seller should make right based on inaccurate description of the watch. To be honest, I would not have bought this piece based on the incongruencies between the pictures and description.

agree, i wouldn't have bought either but we all have to learn sometime

[vmm]

The watch was described as never worn, sized, and with protective plastics in place. That's clearly not what the buyer received. Am I naive to assume that such a watch should not have scratches, dings, etc? The warranty sounds sketchy as well.

[Welshwatchman]

No one has asked for my opinion but here it is anyway.

Both watches are great.

The deal was fair at $400.

The offer was fair at $200. The counter offer unreasonable at $800.

Resolve it quickly and politely since there is no need for this to turn south.

Also, one must leave the seller $$$$$$ in pocket for his Pledge 2012 donation.

He is a prolific seller.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

No one has asked for my opinion but here it is anyway.

Both watches are great.

The deal was fair at $400.

The offer was fair at $200. The counter offer unreasonable at $800.

Resolve it quickly and politely since there is no need for this to turn south.

Also, one must leave the seller $$$$$$ in pocket for his Pledge 2012 donation.

He is a prolific seller.

Well Paul, as a member, your opinions were solicited in the OP's first post. And agree with your assessment it was a decent deal value-wise.

I still think a code of ethics could help avoid misunderstandings.

[hanybad]

After reading every post I think refunding Ryan his cash $400 is fair enough and put this in the history books and live goes on.

[rajurama]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

No one has asked for my opinion but here it is anyway.

Both watches are great.

The deal was fair at $400.

The offer was fair at $200. The counter offer unreasonable at $800.

Resolve it quickly and politely since there is no need for this to turn south.

Also, one must leave the seller $$$$$$ in pocket for his Pledge 2012 donation.

He is a prolific seller.

Excellent solution, indeed very wise. Hopefully both the buyer and seller accept this and learnt a lot from this deal. It will be their maturity to end this amicably.

[Andelain]

Originally Posted by hanybad

After reading every post I think refunding Ryan his cash $400 is fair enough and put this in the history books and live goes on.

I tend to agree with this.

[paracord]

Originally Posted by Andelain

I tend to agree with this.

Guys,

OK i'm reasonable here. I'll go to the seller and ask for my $400.

This is strange though that he has contacted me but refuses to post his side here.

Adds to the shadiness.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[paracord]

Just sent this to the seller:

-------------------------------------------------

XXXXXXX,

The forum suggests a refund of my $400. I can live with this.

SURELY this will be acceptable to you as this is still NO MONEY OUT OF YOUR POCKET even after misrepresenting an item.

Please get back to me quickly if you are willing to make this agreement and bring this all to an end.

Thanks

[paracord]

Everyone,

I'd like to report that the seller has agreed to return my $400. Although I'd have much preferred to just reverse the deal, this is probably the best I can do and it has been suggested by the forum so I will accept their decision. I am happy that he has done this.

I'd like to thank everyone for taking the time to weigh in. If it were not for the pressure exerted by this thread, there is no way I would have gotten closure on this. This matter is now resolved between the seller and I (at least after it clears PayPal), but since I've involved all of you, I realize that you all now have a stake in this as well.

I realize that I have taken everyone's time to arbitrate this. I'm sure that after examining all the evidence that there is still a desire to see the seller. I don't want to bail on this thread just because I got some compensation. That would be selfish of me and I want this thread to help keep our boards clean. To the Mods: If you feel it is still necessary to post the seller info, please PM me. I will provide and you can disseminate in a manner of your choosing. I'd prefer to not disclose since he finally did man up, but it is up to the community and not me.

I feel this is only fair as you guys now have a stake in this too.

Anyway, here is how it went down today for the public record. Out of total fairness I wanted to provide the seller's perspective as well and our email thread is all I have as he prefers not to weigh in here (I informed him that I would share our email exchanges today as can be seen in the correspondence below). Thanks again everyone and mods let me know how to proceed.






---------------------------------------------------------------------

Appreciate if you can leave out my name/ID. I don't think that is necessary at this point.

Sent from my iPad
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I will do that xxxxx. I will actually post our last few emails to confirm it. Once again I confirm that we are settled.

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Ok. Plz post and say the issue is settled.

Sent from my iPad

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xxxxx,

You still don't get it. I did not ruin your reputation. You did. This forum is 95% in my favor. If you had a leg to stand on, you would have contributed to the forum.

I am happy that you finally decided to try to make this right once the forum pressure became high. And I will post that. This will settle the argument in my view and you will never hear from me again. However, the thread is property of TRF, and they can do with it what they want. Once again, this is why I did not want to take this public.

Thank you,
Ryan

---------------------------------------------------------

Stop thanking me. You ruined my reputation on the forum. Even by not disclosing my id, everyone knows who I was, which is why I didnt even wanna respond and make this a public argument.

As you saw from the moderator's post, original deal we had was fair even if the watch was NOS. My offer Of $200 refund was also fair. Now I gave you $400 and you are still not happy.

I need to know if this refund settles the issue. If I don't get confirmation here and on the forum by tonight I am canceling the refund.

It Is paypal's policy to hold refund until Thursday. I can't do anything about that.

Sent from my iPad

----------------------------------------------------------
I still do not have the money in my account, it is still pending. To answer your question of "are we good," here is my response:

You asked me to clear your name. My job is not to clear your name. The facts will or will not clear your name. All I've done is accurately post the facts, and the board will form their opinions. I never wanted this to go public in the first place.

Your comment that you did not knowingly mislead me is fine. I disagree with it, but I will grant that you didn't knowingly do it.....all you had to do to was make it right once I pointed out your mistake. None of this would have gone public. Mistakes happen. If you made it right we would not have come to this.

I will certainly post these emails and report that you have now paid me the $400 that was suggested. I'm sure some of the members will be glad you did and that will make their perception more favorable of you and of this transaction. I'm also sure that there will be some that feel it shouldn't have come to a public squabble to make you reconcile. I can't control their perceptions.

Thanks again,
Ryan

----------------------------------------------------------

Are we good or should I cancel the refund?

Sent from my iPad

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Gave you the $400.

Sent from my iPad

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I'll refund the $400 but I didn't misrepresent anything. Based on the info I had the watch is new in my mind.

I've refunded you $200 first and will give you the other two after you clear my name.



----------------------------------------------------------

xxxxx,

The forum suggests a refund of my $400. I can live with this.

SURELY this will be acceptable to you as this is still NO MONEY OUT OF YOUR POCKET even after misrepresenting an item.

Please get back to me quickly if you are willing to make this agreement and bring this all to an end.

Thanks,
Ryan



----------------------------------------------------------

Whether you believe it or not is up to you but I honestly didn't know the watch was old stock but I doubt it is 5 years old. Even if you buy a new watch from the AD it doesn't mean it is produced that day. Even if the AD sell you one that has been in inventory for 2 years it is still labeled new. In fact for the higher end watches, it isn't uncommon for them to sit on the shelf for a few years before being sold as new.

Anyways, I understand where you are coming from. I can't return the watch to you anymore but I can refund you $200 to smooth things over. That is my final offer to you to put this behind us. If that is not acceptable then you should do what you gotta do.

[Anthony.S]

Sorry, I have to say this.

Unless you name the seller this is all just useless drama, I want to avoid him. Not naming him puts us all at risk of having to deal with this person

I will not deal with this person and the fact that he never spoke up speaks volumes to me.


Edit: also if he claims he did nothing wrong why is he refunding you 400 dollars? (rhetorical question) He knows what he did was wrong.

[johnbeth]

Originally Posted by Anthony.S

Sorry, I have to say this.

Unless you name the seller this is all just useless drama, I want to avoid him. Not naming him puts us all at risk of having to deal with this person

I will not deal with this person and the fact that he never spoke up speaks volumes to me.


Edit: also if he claims he did nothing wrong why is he refunding you 400 dollars? (rhetorical question) He knows what he did was wrong.

I agree 10000%

[STEELINOX]

A MOD will either lock this pup or someones gonna be outed and its a matter of time's all ...

[Matdaytona]

check out the link on pg2

[johnbeth]

Originally Posted by johnbeth

Is this the watch u bought??
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=216868

Originally Posted by Matdaytona

check out the link on pg2

You mean this??

Not sure if its correct though..Waiting for OP to confirm.. I have asked but no answer received as yet.

[STEELINOX]

Okay, well, he's outed now, so Im goin to JJ's Bar for a beer !

[johnbeth]

Originally Posted by STEELINOX

Okay, well, he's outed now, so Im goin to JJ's Bar for a beer !

My link has not been confirmed as yet by the OP...Have asked, no answer...

[STEELINOX]

Originally Posted by johnbeth

My link has not been confirmed as yet...

Well, I wont save ya a seat at the Bar if you dont leave this thread now

[STEELINOX]

Comon Paracord, you can say it, sounds like: "Watch + ya + lookin + at" !

[springer]

While I haven't been asked for an opinion either, and after reading all that has been placed here so far, the seller was shady at best, and a scoundrel at worst, regardless of the dollar amount. A little integrity goes a long way - it's a virtue that can't be taught.

It's sad to read about another deal gone "south" here on the forum. I'd post the info you have on the seller here, and in the "Who's who" section.

[johnbeth]

Originally Posted by STEELINOX

Well, I wont save ya a seat at the Bar if you dont leave this thread now

On my way..

[paracord]

Originally Posted by johnbeth

My link has not been confirmed as yet by the OP...Have asked, no answer...

Guys,

I'm not ignoring you....I'd just prefer to follow the Mod's lead on this.

[STEELINOX]

Originally Posted by paracord

Guys,

I'm not ignoring you....I'd just prefer to follow the Mod's lead on this.

okay...

[liuk3]

Seller is definitely sketchy. OP didn't ruin his reputation. His actions on this transaction did enough to ruin his own reputation. IBTL.

[Shikar]

The seller is obviously the same linked above.
I will avoid the seller for sure.

Regards.

[rajurama]

The matter is resolved we need to close this thread. No need for name shame party.