My 1680 - an interesting example? Thoughts welcome!

[Guitarfan]

Thanks Bill. I bought it from a very experienced dealer so I don't think the 'worst case' is at all likely.

I'd also be incredibly surprised if an old man with a nice watch and a few pieces of paper managed to pull on a con on them!

[marcello pisani]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

Yes I am still thinking what to do, Marcello.

I trust the dealer as I think would a lot of people in the Rolex world.

bring the watch to Rolex UK ( the best option in my opinion ) or to an authorised Rolex dealer and ask to check :
1) where this damned case number has been sold and when
2) if the present case is a replacement of an older one ( but really this option it's almost impossible )
I'm becoming more and more desolate ... it seems that all we have written was in vain ..
just one more question : ask to that famous dealer which kind of time machine has been used to sell in 1975 a case produced in 1978 ...
I'm really curious ...

[marcello pisani]

Originally Posted by bplein

Guitarfan,

I think what you have, at best, is an honest dealer who was handed a bunch of paperwork by the prior owner, and does not have the same background and resources as some of the experienced people here who have responded. Maybe the paperwork belonged to another watch by the same owner (simple mistake) or maybe the prior owner was less than honest.

The watch could be from the later years, or a replacement case on what was legitimately a 1975 watch. Nobody here seems to think that it could be a late model serial sold in an early year (but as noted, strange things have happened)

What you have, at worst, is a less than honest dealer who has pieced together some stuff and sold it to you at inflated prices.

As said by a few people already, if you can return it to the dealer, you will have greater peace of mind. You won't think about it every time you look at the watch or see similar pieces here on RolexForums.

If you like the watch enough, and the dealer is willing to buy the paperwork back, essentially putting it back to a street price of a 1975-1978 Sub without papers and with some service parts, then that's an option for you too.

I'd go with the former, and look longer for that watch that fits your desire to have a clean history and paperwork.

and in Rome we have a sentence : < bona a' seconda > LLOOLLL

[Guitarfan]

I'm not near to London so I cannot take the watch to Rolex UK I'm afraid, much as I would love to! Will they tell me over the phone?

My local AD isn't far away so I can call in there if they will have access to the original sale date information?

[marcello pisani]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

I'm not near to London so I cannot take the watch to Rolex UK I'm afraid, much as I would love to! Will they tell me over the phone?

My local AD isn't far away so I can call in there if they will have access to the original sale date information?

is go to the Rolex AD with the watch and tell him all details of the question : he can ask to Bexley himself.

[Guitarfan]

I've just been to the AD. They told me Rolex will only check the lost/stolen register for any watch that the AD is taking in on a trade, and that they will not speak to me directly. I cannot get any information out of them.

I suppose Rolex St James in London may help further if I went in person, but it's not possible for me to do that easily.

Hmmmm...

[Vincent65]

How about calling St James, explain everything, and see if you can email as much info/pics as possible to get some clarification? Just a thought.

[Guitarfan]

Unfortunately they don't do that kind of stuff - it'd be great if they did!

[jedly1]

Ok ... Lets clear up a few uk things before people go off half cocked ....

1. Watches of Switzerland were crap ... They did a lot if dumbass things staffed by children, so mismatching boxes , booklets and all manner of papers is not unusual... Seeing short non chrono papers put with a chrono watch is one of their most common transgression ... Closely followed by pitting the wrong punched papers with a watch

2. They often used stock code not serial inside WOD .. Bloody annoying

3. Unless you are the kinda person that buys a single scratch card every week and wins £250 then Rolex uk will have no interest in helping you. The Hudson era is over.

4. Rolex ad's will be beyond no help.

Rolex is no longer at bexley , I say this because I know two people ( one from this forum ) who reading that googled Rolex bexley for the address and went only to find .... Nada :-)

[stevedssd]

Really sorry how this has turned out but if you look objectively:

You have paid top price for a 1976 White 1680 in original condition with original papers.

You have a very nice 1680 White that has a Serial number consistent with late 1978

You have Jan/Feb 1976 papers that are not the correct issue for a 1680 (so won't at any time be considered as correct by collectors)

There is a question mark over the discrepancy between the date of sale and generally accepted manufacture period for a 5.8 serial number (something that will require documentation from Rolex, for future reference and possibly even then wouldn't satisfy most collectors)

The dial is considered by a whole series of experienced collectors to be a service dial (and would be in the future if you came to sell)

The dealer is prepared to take it back and give a full refund

If you are happy with the watch and prepared to accept that its future value would be based on it having a service dial (nothing wrong with that) and not having "original papers", then by all means negotiate a refund for the difference on what you paid.

Others have already said take it back to the dealer, I agree and with your money back you can look for another that has all the things you thought you were getting.

Good luck

[Guitarfan]

Thanks Jedly, much appreciated! That seems to have been the WoS way.

Thanks Steve too, a nice common sense summary!

So the real question for me is whether a 5.8m watch could be sold in January 1976. In theory, Rolex could have had a massive pile of cases made in the mid seventies and someone in the factory grabbed a new one instead of using one of the older numbered stock first. Just a theory, but as Steve says common knowledge seems to suggest otherwise. I'd love to find another example of a serial number so far out from the charts, but it seems very unlikely.

Taking it back seems the best option I agree...

[Mark020]

Forget about the serial number being far off by accident. The papers you have don't belong to the watch you bought. You paid for those papers. Return the watch and buy a no questions one.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

Thanks Jedly, much appreciated! That seems to have been the WoS way.

Thanks Steve too, a nice common sense summary!

So the real question for me is whether a 5.8m watch could be sold in January 1976. In theory, Rolex could have had a massive pile of cases made in the mid seventies and someone in the factory grabbed a new one instead of using one of the older numbered stock first. Just a theory, but as Steve says common knowledge seems to suggest otherwise. I'd love to find another example of a serial number so far out from the charts, but it seems very unlikely.

Taking it back seems the best option I agree...

You seem "hell bent" on making this watch correct or something it isn't. You've been given much sound advice which is why you came here in the first place. Since you really don't care to follow the advice or suggestions given to you, keep the watch and let this go. It doesn't matter who did what 30- years-ago, the paperwork is not correct and will mean nothing to a future collector or buyer. The dial is a replacement, which isn't the end of the world, but it is in fact a replacement dial. Additionally, Rolex wasn't selling watches from from 1978 in 1976, that is a ridiculous assumption.

[nycpassat]

+1 and keep the watch.

Originally Posted by springer

You seem "hell bent" on making this watch correct or something it isn't. You've been given much sound advice which is why you came here in the first place. Since you really don't care to follow the advice or suggestions given to you, keep the watch and let this go. It doesn't matter who did what 30- years-ago, the paperwork is not correct and will mean nothing to a future collector or buyer. The dial is a replacement, which isn't the end of the world, but it is in fact a replacement dial. Additionally, Rolex wasn't selling watches from from 1978 in 1976, that is a ridiculous assumption.

[Vincent65]

end of!

[KlausM]

Remember that regardless of what the seller and previous owner says and regardless of serial numbers and production/sold years being correct or not there is absolutely NO link between the paperwork and the watch.
In this case the paperwork is worth nothing no matter how you look at it.
BR
Klaus

[Guitarfan]

Guys I hear you, I do. I was just exploring all possibilities :)

Thanks for everything, the watch will be going back.

[Mark020]

Originally Posted by springer

Additionally, Rolex wasn't selling watches from from 1978 in 1976, that is a ridiculous assumption.

Well: I have a 1655 made in 1976 and sold in 1982 but: 1) a sub is not a 1655 and 2) this dealer is a high turnover one. So: indeed no way this was in store for 2 years.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Mark020

Well: I have a 1655 made in 1976 and sold in 1982 but: 1) a sub is not a 1655 and 2) this dealer is a high turnover one. So: indeed no way this was in store for 2 years.

Yes, quite true but your example is the opposite of what we are discussing here.

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

I guess the same supplier could have produced tritium dials (with closed 6s) and then switched to luminova with open 6s?

The dial and the date wheel are totally separate parts of the watch. It's possible to have an original dial with a service replacement date wheel or vice versa.

Glad to hear you're taking it back. It's a gorgeous watch...if only it was advertised/priced appropriately for having a service dial, and sold without nonsensical papers. Good luck with everything.

[skprd13]

Originally Posted by springer

You seem "hell bent" on making this watch correct or something it isn't. You've been given much sound advice which is why you came here in the first place. Since you really don't care to follow the advice or suggestions given to you, keep the watch and let this go. It doesn't matter who did what 30- years-ago, the paperwork is not correct and will mean nothing to a future collector or buyer. The dial is a replacement, which isn't the end of the world, but it is in fact a replacement dial. Additionally, Rolex wasn't selling watches from from 1978 in 1976, that is a ridiculous assumption.

X2 well spoken John! This thread is crazy but amusing?

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

The dial and the date wheel are totally separate parts of the watch. It's possible to have an original dial with a service replacement date wheel or vice versa.

Glad to hear you're taking it back. It's a gorgeous watch...if only it was advertised/priced appropriately for having a service dial, and sold without nonsensical papers. Good luck with everything.

I believe he's talking about the 6s on the dial, not the date-wheel...

[Guitarfan]

Yep, I was walking about the 660ft on the dial :0)

[Mark020]

JUST RETURN THE WATCH DUDE. Can't make it much clearer. Enough red subs around.

Originally Posted by springer

Yes, quite true but your example is the opposite of what we are discussing here.

Well: I clearly indicated that didn't I

[Guitarfan]

Hey guys I heard you - check post #77!!!

It's going back next weekend :0)

[Robbyvm]

i had fun reading this thread

the harder you pull a pigs tale, the harder it pulls foreward....

[Guitarfan]

I'm glad you liked it - it's been an education for me