Kayci Hickox, please go away! Literally.

[Brunotheboxer]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

Don't put words in my mouth and read what I have previosly posted - particularly my first post un this thread.

Ebola risk is the same in the US and Europe and it's serious stuff.
But the degree of hysteria about ebola is only in the US.

Lies.

[Scot_3]

Thanks Judy, your clarity is appreciated,

[wantonebad]

Judy, awesome post, you are the best!!

[hdrazor251]

Yeah Judy!!!!!!!!!

[GermanyMatt]

Hell yeah, Judy! Open that can of whip ass!

[bayerische]

I just checked the front page of the biggest newspaper in Finland, not a single "ebola" word.

There was a person suspected of being infected this week in Finland. Tests where carried out, and it turned out to be negative.

No one speaks of Ebola here. Sure Eva and I talked about it for two minutes when we heard about the possible infection. Next day it was announced he/she (don't remember) wasn't infected.

Europe has had more Ebola deaths than the US. But panic isn't being seen anywhere (as far as I can see ) Not in the media, not on any government level. There seems to be a good system of keeping the infected patients from spreading the disease.

Simply put, Ebola is not headline news here.

So, is Europe taking this any less seriously? I don't think so. But there's no point making the general public scared. Fear is a powerful tool. There's a lot of bigger issues in Europe at the moment than Ebola.

Am I for restrictions on travel from the African countries worst hit with Ebola?
-Yes!

But here we enter a problem. Without getting into things we can't discuss, where should we end and begin these travel restrictions? In my eyes travel restrictions get very Orwellian quick, on the borderline to a police state.

[bayerische]

Just adding, I agree with the thread regarding the Nurse. Isolating yourself should be a natural concern of a healthcare worker without protest.

[Kingair]

Great post Judy !

Now I would do the same. . . isolate myself

And as a nurse this, woman should know better

Imagine living with her . . . .

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by bayerische

I just checked the front page of the biggest newspaper in Finland, not a single "ebola" word.

There was a person suspected of being infected this week in Finland. Tests where carried out, and it turned out to be negative.

No one speaks of Ebola here. Sure Eva and I talked about it for two minutes when we heard about the possible infection. Next day it was announced he/she (don't remember) wasn't infected.

Europe has had more Ebola deaths than the US. But panic isn't being seen anywhere (as far as I can see ) Not in the media, not on any government level. There seems to be a good system of keeping the infected patients from spreading the disease.

Simply put, Ebola is not headline news here.

So, is Europe taking this any less seriously? I don't think so. But there's no point making the general public scared. Fear is a powerful tool. There's a lot of bigger issues in Europe at the moment than Ebola.

Am I for restrictions on travel from the African countries worst hit with Ebola?
-Yes!

But here we enter a problem. Without getting into things we can't discuss, where should we end and begin these travel restrictions? In my eyes travel restrictions get very Orwellian quick, on the borderline to a police state.

I totally agree with this post, to say there is great concern or panic here (UK) is just not true, precautions have been taken but it certainly is not on the news, in the papers or on everyones lips. It just isn't.

[vitalsignsrn]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the kudos. There was no back slapping back then. We were scared. The hospital had prepared us well, in comparing to the Dallas fiasco, we were prepared well. We worked in teams, dressed each other up & dressed each other down. And often we would have 4 to a patient for this. The suits were hot & was hard to see through the goggles. We never lost sight that we came 1st to make sure no one got it. We had Bleach soaked mats everywhere, was like Hopscotch. I know there was a lot of grumbling back then, but no one outright refused quarantine. They would have been tied to a post & burned. Us nurses were under a microscope & if the public thought we werent doing the right thing, we were slaughtered in the press. Yes, it happened. Cant please everyone but internally, we were following protocols. Hysteria, fear, obligation etc. You name it, we were feeling it. I didnt want to really talk about that time but I think that those not familiar with the history of SARS here might like to know how it was.

Hey, if she is claiming her "rights"...let her take a walk without security or any escorts. Lets see how far she gets. ;-) Make you wonder what her agenda was when she went to Africa. Maybe looked good on a resume. Her behaviour certainly doesn't reflect a selfless, caring person. S.B (also known as stupid bitch..LOL)

[locutus49]

Maybe Doctors and Nurses should have to score above 90 (with 100 being average or median) on a basic IQ test before being allowed to work on Ebola patients. Because the nurse and doc seem to be sub-normal in IQ or common sense. Or else they are narcissists and so self-centered they have no feeling or responsibiity for those around them.

[hsfrank]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

The point is this. Whether or not she has ebola is almost moot. She was asked by multiple agencies to briefly isolate and avoid contact with others as a preventative measure. She refused, citing mostly self-serving reasons. Had I been asked to make the same small sacrifice as our members of the military working in the ebola zone make when they return to home soil, I could not imagine refusing.

This is not a problem that would have occurred with my grandfather's generation.

Or my generation. As you pointed out earlier this is the same self-serving attitude that exposes others to disease by the anti-vaccinators.they refused to listen to the mountain of scientific evidence that is been established over the years.

[cruvon]

I have been following this case with interest and was speaking to someone in the US with knowledge about it and who's deeply involved in the medical and public health space. This is what was his opinion/understanding of this case is.

He said that in this case the CDC, NIH and all scientific orgs actually say it makes no medical or epidemiological sense to quarantine a person who has been in west Africa for 21 days. Also that it's an unreasonable burden that is neither medically effective nor cost-effective. The official recommendation is to monitor that person's temperature for 21 days and report those numbers to the doctors. If there is no fever, the medical understanding is that there is no risk at all of spreading Ebola.
Also his understanding is that the nurse is not making a case for or against human rights, that the nurse is actually on the side of CDC, NIH and UN health orgs....it's the politicians who are insisting she be quarantined without scientific basis and which is why a judge threw out the requirement that she be quarantined forcibly. He reckons all in all, trying to lock her up for 21 days was never a wise strategy to begin with.

On the other confusion about whether she can call herself a epidemiologist, seems there isn't any specific certification to be an epidemiologist, she has probably done a Public health degree at University and Doctors Without Borders sent her to Africa as a nurse epidemiologist.

Offcourse everyone will have different opinions and is a hard topic with scientific organisations, the judiciary and the medical fraternity going one way and the politicians and public opinion going the other and the fear factor everywhere.

Hope we see the end of this Ebola malaise, esp with all the travelling during the upcoming December holiday season, take care folks!

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

So when journalists write of Ebola fears in Europe, it's "stirring up a story based on minor local incidents," but when the same stories appears in the US, it's evidence of "hysteria?" I guess I'll have to take your word for it. Your US friends have confirmed it.

No offense Joey but here in Europe (or at least here in the Netherlands) our headlines and news stories are a lot less dramatic.

[vitalsignsrn]

I think she acted selfishly. I absolutely don't think she acted with any of the agencies what so ever. She came from directly caring for patients WITH the virus. Unless she was under a rock, she was very well aware of what was happening in the U.S. She could have simply agreed to be quarantined at home for 7-10 days or even the full 21 days. I don't think such a big hoopla would have happened had she just simply said.."ya, you know...I don't really know if I have it, I have people in my life I don't want to hurt & I think I'll just chill at home for a week away from everyone & regroup from being in Africa". Somehow, this seems like a decent compromise. It's cold & flu season & as many have pointed out, the flu kills. So..why not remove yourself from that possibility? She might have not had enough sleep, improper nutrition, high stress which can all contribute to a weak immune system. Its basic, you don't need an advanced degree to know this. If you are run down, theres a higher chance of picking something up. Now, to be fair, she might have had 5 star service in Africa, somehow, I'm sure not. If you are at home, in your own space, bed, computer, food, environment, privacy, & more importantly, you are also keeping yourself safe from the other germs out in the community. No..cant convince me that she is acting on behalf of anyone but herself. Something isn't right with all this to me. You cant be super selfless & giving of everything you have, including your life, to treat people with a deadly disease to coming home & being outraged because your government is telling you you have to remain quarantined because of the chance you might have it. She flipped out. Guess she's now not only gotten her 15 minutes of fame, but now is in the history books too.

The probability of getting Ebola may be rare for the general public, but this woman came right from the epicenter. This is where the angst from the public is coming from, as far as I can see. I don't know how she can call herself an epidemiologist, perhaps she did take an advanced course to obtain the title. Who knows...her title means jack sh**. She might have that piece of paper that says she is, but a virus doesn't know that.

Maybe she will get off her soap box now & integrate herself back into society without the spotlight. ** shrugs **

[Rootbeer]

I think it times of crisis you've got to follow that which is known to be true and can be relied on. That's the science.

A reasonable precaution might be regularly checking for early signs like taking temp.

Putting someone in an unheated tent in a car park with no running water for (potentially) 21 days not so much. That was contrary to science, contrary to medicine and also as it turned out unlawful. No wonder she got a lawyer.

All I hear in US media is panic and concern about the virus here. No recruitment or fundraising for West Africa at all.

Ebola has the potential to be such a good news story in the US:

1. All promptly diagnosed patients successfully treated so far.
2. Potentially a vaccine on the horizon.
3. No members of the public infected.

But we risk getting bogged down in following the latest witch hunt in the media. First the CDC; then Amber Vinson; then Dr Craig; and now KH, someone who doesn't even have the disease.

At the start of this I was a bit critical of KH as she seemed to become very political very quickly. But as time went on I've realised that she has largely had to react to the obstacles put in her way by some big politicians. All the time KH has unwaveringly proffered science as her defence. Shouldn't that simple sword of truth suffice? But it doesn't seem enough here in the US and that is a shame.

Here's a link to the DEC campaign raising funds for West Africa:

http://www.dec.org.uk/appeals/ebola-crisis-appeal

[lavaman]

Wow.

Sad.

Horrifying.

I realize the Facebook Physicians are terrified. I know Ebola is a scary pathogen, a Level 4 biocontaminant, a filivurus with a kill rate in excess of 90% in one of its strains. When I finished paramedic school and was pre-med in college, I read The Coming Plague, The Hot Zone, and others.

But....


the cries for forced internment remind me of an era not so long ago. all that hysteria needs to bring back mob rule is just a slight push it seems.

I thought we were past the days of witch trials and town Confessors for the crown and other such things. I am horrified and said to see that we are not.

4 years of biology, chemistry, microbiology, and virology in college I guess didn't do me any good. Good thing I also went to law school.

Suspend the Constitution? Suspend habeas corpus?

Wow.



-20-

[bayerische]

I can't believe how fast and big the info is about someone infected in the west. (I'm including Europe here) And how slow and non existent the news of the same persons survival and beating of the disease is.

Makes one wonder of the agenda...

[Brunotheboxer]

Originally Posted by lavaman

Wow.

Sad.

Horrifying.

I realize the Facebook Physicians are terrified. I know Ebola is a scary pathogen, a Level 4 biocontaminant, a filivurus with a kill rate in excess of 90% in one of its strains. When I finished paramedic school and was pre-med in college, I read The Coming Plague, The Hot Zone, and others.

But....


the cries for forced internment remind me of an era not so long ago. all that hysteria needs to bring back mob rule is just a slight push it seems.

I thought we were past the days of witch trials and town Confessors for the crown and other such things. I am horrified and said to see that we are not.

4 years of biology, chemistry, microbiology, and virology in college I guess didn't do me any good. Good thing I also went to law school.

Suspend the Constitution? Suspend habeas corpus?

Wow.



-20-

So why has the Ebola czar been so quiet?

Hahahahahaha.

[Dan Pierce]

Churchill was spot on when he declared America can always be counted on to do the right thing after all other avenues have been exhausted.
dP

[incontrol]

Originally Posted by vitalsignsrn

I think she acted selfishly. I absolutely don't think she acted with any of the agencies what so ever. She came from directly caring for patients WITH the virus. Unless she was under a rock, she was very well aware of what was happening in the U.S. She could have simply agreed to be quarantined at home for 7-10 days or even the full 21 days. I don't think such a big hoopla would have happened had she just simply said.."ya, you know...I don't really know if I have it, I have people in my life I don't want to hurt & I think I'll just chill at home for a week away from everyone & regroup from being in Africa". Somehow, this seems like a decent compromise. It's cold & flu season & as many have pointed out, the flu kills. So..why not remove yourself from that possibility? She might have not had enough sleep, improper nutrition, high stress which can all contribute to a weak immune system. Its basic, you don't need an advanced degree to know this. If you are run down, theres a higher chance of picking something up. Now, to be fair, she might have had 5 star service in Africa, somehow, I'm sure not. If you are at home, in your own space, bed, computer, food, environment, privacy, & more importantly, you are also keeping yourself safe from the other germs out in the community. No..cant convince me that she is acting on behalf of anyone but herself. Something isn't right with all this to me. You cant be super selfless & giving of everything you have, including your life, to treat people with a deadly disease to coming home & being outraged because your government is telling you you have to remain quarantined because of the chance you might have it. She flipped out. Guess she's now not only gotten her 15 minutes of fame, but now is in the history books too.

The probability of getting Ebola may be rare for the general public, but this woman came right from the epicenter. This is where the angst from the public is coming from, as far as I can see. I don't know how she can call herself an epidemiologist, perhaps she did take an advanced course to obtain the title. Who knows...her title means jack sh**. She might have that piece of paper that says she is, but a virus doesn't know that.

Maybe she will get off her soap box now & integrate herself back into society without the spotlight. ** shrugs **

Great post. I agree completely.

[bondtoys]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2KBfynW09I

This is a bit older but the larger picture has not changed.

Will all the people apologize to Hickox - after she passes the 21 day timeline and is still ebola- free for their bold statements here?

Remember, she has been blood-tested twice already and she does not have it.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2KBfynW09I

This is a bit older but the larger picture has not changed.

Will all the people apologize to Hickox - after she passes the 21 day timeline and is still ebola- free for their bold statements here?

Remember, she has beenthe individual would never blood-tested twice already and she does not have it.

Love ya Man, but that is kind of missing the point I think. It all comes down to the proper etiquette if you will on this situation. Ebola in the West that is. I am an American and I all about freedom, on and on.

But in Japan the individual's freedoms would never outweigh the group at large. This is much to do about nothing. You are right she most likely is virus free. I applaud her efforts to help others.

All she had to do was come back and chill at home. Order some food, surf the net, do some Yoga or something at home and chill. No. She has to scare the crap out of her small community to make a statement. I don't like her and I don't like how she has handled this. Too early in this to create hysteria (unfounded perhaps) to make a "rights" statement.

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2KBfynW09I

This is a bit older but the larger picture has not changed.

Will all the people apologize to Hickox - after she passes the 21 day timeline and is still ebola- free for their bold statements here?

Remember, she has been blood-tested twice already and she does not have it.

Your video at 2:01. All I'm gonna say.

I'm not inviting that discussion here. But it is what it is.

I haven't heard about Hickox, still doing fine I guess?

[bondtoys]

Hello Tom, old friend.

I understand your points.
Like bayrische previous said - fear is a powerful tool.
A nation in fear is willing to give up civil rights.

I agree that she should have staid home as a super-precaution - but basically noone had the legal entitlement to force her that way.

Let's not forget - she was tested twice - she has no symtoms and she was kept in an unheated tent immediately after her return.

So she was the one, who's gotten taken away her civil rights for no legal reason at the first place.
She had some high-profile politicians in her way who ordered her to do things that she may have done voluntarily.

I can understand her reactions - I may have done the same just for the sake "to make a point".

I am far away from her - all I know so far is that she took a biketour. She said in an interview that the knows that people are concerned and I am pretty confident that she did not go to the crowded area - even though she had the right to do it. I may be wrong on this.

In my opinon many contributions have been way out of line and pretty unfair to her and I expect these people to gome up after the 21 day period and apologize for that.

One can have different opinions but demanding civil rights taken away from someone without a proper reason is not ok.
You can't simply lock up everyone who returns from a help-mission from Africa.

And let's not forget: Until today, there is not a single case known from someone who's showing no ebola symthoms who has passed the virus to others!!! Not in Europe, not in the US

She deserves our highest respect for what she's done in Africa and I am pretty confident that she knew what risk she was to others.
And I am sure that she was super-careful even then.
Just my 2 cents.

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by bayerische

Your video at 2:01. All I'm gonna say.

and agree 100%

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

Will all the people apologize to Hickox - after she passes the 21 day timeline and is still ebola- free for their bold statements here?

Remember, she has been blood-tested twice already and she does not have it.

When Hickox got off the plane from West Africa, she had a fever, which she blamed on being tired and flushed, (reasons that I am unfamiliar with, BTW, after 26 years as a physician.) Later, she tested negative. I agree that sitting her down in a tent in a parking lot was not cool, but during the period when no one knew if she was sick or not, she romped and frolicked out and about with total disregard for others. THAT is my problem with her. The fact that she tests negative three weeks later is not cogent to the original post in this thread. I still think she is an arrogant, self-centered, media-loving, litigious person who used this event to gain her 15 minutes of fame.

[Dan Pierce]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

When Hickox got off the plane from West Africa, she had a fever, which she blamed on being tired and flushed, (reasons that I am unfamiliar with, BTW, after 26 years as a physician.) Later, she tested negative. I agree that sitting her down in a tent in a parking lot was not cool, but during the period when no one knew if she was sick or not, she romped and frolicked out and about with total disregard for others. THAT is my problem with her. The fact that she tests negative three weeks later is not cogent to the original post in this thread. I still think she is an arrogant, self-centered, media-loving, litigious person who used this event to gain her 15 minutes of fame.

Doesn't seem very consistent with one who travels across the globe in an effort to help save lives, IMHO.
dP

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Doesn't seem very consistent with one who travels across the globe in an effort to help save lives, IMHO.
dP

I do agree with you Dan.

But I can also understand her, as without the media she would probably be sitting in that cold tent. I think she re-entered the US when the Ebola scare was on it's top. It seems to have settled a bit.

I think these doctors and nurses show the ultimate character of not being selfish. I would not go into a Ebola-hot-zone in west Africa, I guarantee you.

However, these doctors and nurses do need a bit of respect, and putting them in isolation without proper cause, or putting them in a cold tent in a parking lot is on the border to inhumane. Inmates have better facilities. This whole episode could have been defused. (I think)

The doctors/nurses in West Africa should really be seen as our (all of us) first line of defense against Ebola.

[Rootbeer]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

When Hickox got off the plane from West Africa, she had a fever, which she blamed on being tired and flushed, (reasons that I am unfamiliar with, BTW, after 26 years as a physician.) Later, she tested negative.

Joey, what do you blame the reported fever on? I'm no doctor but my guess would be either the reading was wrong or the report was wrong. I've heard it reported that KH states the reading was wrong and I've not heard the 'tired and flushed' explanation. The body can do weird things but if every other data set is normal you question the validity of the anomaly right? She was screened for fever before getting on the plane too.






Some good news it seems about Dr Craig Spencer:

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.2000196