GMT II Pepsi - M Serial (2007-2008) difficult to find?

[Casey VP-26]

Originally Posted by padi56

Yes the so called wiggle test could show it had a Cal 3186 but the only 100% way is get the back off especially with the crazy prices quoted in this thread.And what do you class as being rare more than,5,10,20,50,100,1000.Rare in my book is less 50 total but in Rolex speak terms rare less than a thousand or more.

I do not like to disagree with Padi, so I won't. I will agree the 100% way to tell the difference in having a 3185 or 3186 movement in the 16710 would be to take the back off the watch. However I feel do to the redesign in the movement and the gears the crown method test of telling which movement is inside should prove to be about 99.999% accurate. (close enough for me) OMHO.

[dmitrii_]

Lots of interesting info here guys!

Thanks :)

Not sure I picked the right watch to chase after, proving difficult to find.

What was the serial right before the M? Was it the Z?

[SeaDweller50]

I wouldn't want one personally mainly down to the many faults reported on the early 3186's where the hour hand would freely spin round. A modded version was released by Rolex on the quiet as far as I can recall. Lots of reports on this forum alone. All of the movements were fixed free of charge.

[Randy]

Always a guy in the bunch who wants to argue a point. Fact is M serials with GMT Pepsi or Coke 3186 are very collectable. I will gladly buy every single one with plastics NOS that comes my way. The exact number of this configuration Rolex may not even know how many left the factory. I sold a Z 3185 NOS for 9K, 3186 M serials are 12K plus if plastics are in place.

[Ravager135]

Originally Posted by Randy

Always a guy in the bunch who wants to argue a point. Fact is M serials with GMT Pepsi or Coke 3186 are very collectable. I will gladly buy every single one with plastics NOS that comes my way. The exact number of this configuration Rolex may not even know how many left the factory. I sold a Z 3185 NOS for 9K, 3186 M serials are 12K plus if plastics are in place.

There's many guys who would argue this point. Including moderators on this forum with many years experience on this topic. No one is saying they don't command a premium. Any NOS fully stickered commands a premium over its used counterpart. The discrepancy is that they are not altogether "that" rare and that they are not in the same league as a Comex Submariner or Mil Sub which were actually released intentionally in limited numbers.

If Rolex released a ceramic Pepsi bezel GMT Master II in stainless steel, the price would drop considerably (still worth more than original sale price, I'll grant you that). If Rolex released a Mil Sub heritage, the original Mil Sub price wouldn't fluctuate an inch. That's the difference.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by dmitrii_

Lots of interesting info here guys!

Thanks :)

Not sure I picked the right watch to chase after, proving difficult to find.

What was the serial right before the M? Was it the Z?

If I may suggest...don't obsess so much about the serial.

Find a 16710 in the best possible / original condition you can. Then find out what serial it is / see if it's been serviced...and make your best offer.

Some folks hardly wore or babied their watches prior to selling. I'd personally take an older watch in excellent condition over a newer one just because of the serial #.

[Ravager135]

Originally Posted by Speed

If I may suggest...don't obsess so much about the serial.

Find a 16710 in the best possible / original condition you can. Then find out what serial it is / see if it's been serviced...and make your best offer.

Some folks hardly wore or babied their watches prior to selling. I'd personally take an older watch in excellent condition over a newer one with just because of the serial #.

This. Nailed it!

[Andad]

Ttiuwp.

My "M".

What is a stick dial?

[Gaijin]

Stick Dial is the writing of GMT-MASTER ll on the dial

as opposed to GMT-MASTER II

[Annan]

FWIW: Here's an article from 2008 on the subject that you might find of interest.
http://luxurytyme.com/en/rolex-relat...ii-16710-3186/

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

Stick Dial is the writing of GMT-MASTER ll on the dial

as opposed to GMT-MASTER II

OK - STICK DIAL...STICK DIAL...STICK DIAL....

Tom.

[dmitrii_]

Think I may have found a Z serial, apparently with 3186.

Is this Z serial just as desirable as the M?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by dmitrii_

Think I may have found a Z serial, apparently with 3186.

Is this Z serial just as desirable as the M?

Only in certain peoples heads.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by dmitrii_

Think I may have found a Z serial, apparently with 3186.

Is this Z serial just as desirable as the M?

If it's a late Z, with engraved rehaut.

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by blue lion

For comparison, I bought an almost mint used Z serial for $5500 about 18 months ago. Roughly a 2006 model.

That has the 3186 movement? If so, the price is a steal!

The 3186 starts from Z8xxx...

[Zoran]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

If it's a late Z, with engraved rehaut.

Adam, it's already confusing enough without looking for one with engraved rehaut...
I still have to see the first 16710 with rehaut

Buy what makes you happy guys, life is too short to worry about future value when you can enjoy it today

[Britexpat76]

If you want an investment spend $10k on Apple shares instead of chucking a perfectly useable watch in a safe.

I would almost guarantee which one would give you the better return.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Zoran

Adam, it's already confusing enough without looking for one with engraved rehaut...
I still have to see the first 16710 with rehaut

Buy what makes you happy guys, life is too short to worry about future value when you can enjoy it today

That's true....I'm thinking 16570. My mistake

[DVR]

Originally Posted by Annan

FWIW: Here's an article from 2008 on the subject that you might find of interest.
http://luxurytyme.com/en/rolex-relat...ii-16710-3186/

That article should be added to the tooth fairy category.
The 16710-3186 came with 3 dials, the 'stick dial' is just one of them.

And the naysayers can post until their fingers hurt , a 16710-3186 is collectible and will gain value as years go by.
If a company name or red print on an otherwise identical watch can command crazy money a much more significant difference can too !
If you can't see that, fine, doesn't change this fact though.

[DVR]

Originally Posted by dmitrii_

Think I may have found a Z serial, apparently with 3186.

Is this Z serial just as desirable as the M?

It's not the M serial per se that defines the desirability, nor the dial font.
It is the combination of the old case with the new movement.
So if that late Z serial has it than it is as desirable imo.
However, we know now all M serials came with 3186, most Z's don't so that makes it less 'sure' a Z came with it and therefore it could be some people would still prefer the M serial compared to late Z. .
Time will tell...

[wulfman]

Originally Posted by Ravager135

^^^I let my lawyer do the talking for me! NOS prices are a temporary phenomenon. As Padi states eventually these models will be unstickered and unlike truly rare examples, will not be worth the premium as there are many made.

You're right I cannot predict the future. But neither can you. Current facts show that GMT Masters with 3186 movements are not rare. They aren't even limited edition in quantity. So while neither of us can predict the future, current evidence supports the notion that they will never command the prices a Mil Sub or Comex Submariner does.

Because people will pay a lot now for NOS doesn't mean anything. My 16610 if it were stickered commands a premium. Does that make it rare or worth a lot more in the future? I am not saying your watch might not be worth a premium. That's up to the market to decide as you say. Paying more for something doesn't make it collectible or rare.

Lets go: A temporary phenomenon?! Since 8 years since it was dicontinued?? You can't be serious... In 20 years its still a temporary phenomenon for you? After how many decades do you accept, that your opinion is an outsider opinion? YOU'RE not willing to pay a premium. But the market does. Thats a fact. For you stickered ones are not worth a premium. But again: But for the market it is. Why do you still deny this?

So many out there? Not rare? Pls show us here in this thread offers from NOS 16710/3186 M or even Z-Series to make it a bit easier for you. I'd like to buy without a premium. Le'ts say I'll spend a litte premium: 6.000 Euro or Dollar. Now I'm excited to wait what offers you'll present us...

[padi56]

Originally Posted by wulfman

Lets go: A temporary phenomenon?! Since 8 years since it was dicontinued?? You're kidding... In 20 years its still a temporary phenomenon for you? After how many decades do you accept, that your opinion is a outsider opinion? YOU'RE not willing to pay a premium. But the market does. Thats a fact. For you stickered ones are not worth a premium. But again: You and Peter are a minority. Thats also a fact.

So many out there? Pls show us here in this thread offers from NOS 16710/3186 M or even Z-Series to make it a bit easier for you. I'd like to buy without a premium. Lets say I'll spend a litte premium: 6.000 Euro or Dollar. Now I'm excited to wait what offers you'll present us...

May be a minority but the WIS world is a minority, same could be said about my Daytona 6263 I inherit from my Dad .My Father saved for many years took on a few jobs to go and buy his dream watch a Sub.But when he got the the AD he offered him a 6263 with a £25 discount on a already cheaper 6263 by over £100 that the sub was priced then.And as long as I am still breathing that watch will never be sold thats whats buying and owning a Rolex is about. Today its all about will this or that go up price Rolex today are no longer watches now little more that £££££$$$$$$$ perhaps forums and the Internet are to blame, just glad I am still old school and will die old school.

[wulfman]

Nice story about the 6263 from your Dad. I believe that is real passion. I also consider never to sell my 16710 M-Series and to pass it to further generations. A nice thought for me. Unfortunately money talks in this world, Peter, but it is how it is although in some things I'm oldschooled too...;-)

[AL7273]

I must say, I am thrilled this thread is back, seriously.

Ok, so I have a Pepsi Cola GMT II with the 3186 movement "M" Serial. Bought new from an AD in 2008 after everyone started asking about these. 7 Years later and I must say that the premiums these watches are trading for are what pushed me to put it in the safe and buy another SS this month AND (please correct me if I am wrong) otherwise if you want a Pepsi Cola with a 3186 movement you must go for the White Gold model which is serious money and looks like a well polished SS GMT II....

Ok, so I place the PC 3186 in the safe and bought a 2011 40mm Explorer II Polar with the 3186 to have the transitional pair. Now this Explorer II has the rehaut which I am not a fan of for some reason.

QUESTION: was there a transitional 40mm Explorer II Polar/Black with the 3186 movement and NO Rehaut? If so, what is the market price on them?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by AL7273

I must say, I am thrilled this thread is back, seriously.

Ok, so I have a Pepsi Cola GMT II with the 3186 movement "M" Serial. Bought new from an AD in 2008 after everyone started asking about these. 7 Years later and I must say that the premiums these watches are trading for are what pushed me to put it in the safe and buy another SS this month AND (please correct me if I am wrong) but otherwise if you want a Pepsi Cola with a 3186 movement you must go for the White Gold model which is serious money and looks like a well polished SS GMT II....

Ok, so I place the PC 3186 in the safe and bought a 2011 40mm Explorer II Polar with the 3186 to have the transitional pair. Now this Explorer II has the rehaut which I am not a fan of for some reason.

QUESTION: was there a transitional 40mm Explorer II Polar/Black with the 3186 movement and NO Rehaut? If so, what is the market price on them?

ANSWER: Not to my knowledge.

Q: Pepsi Cola?

[AL7273]

yes, so quick peek at Rolex website tells me that the White Gold Pepsi Cola has a 3186 movement.....

I just called Seddiqi and Sons...they have a White Gold Pesi Cola with 3186 in stock they will be glad to sell me tax free for $40,776 USD.

So, suddenly, an M-Series with the 3186 movement seems pretty reasonable and if you can find one and you want one, I say buy it.

"Last of the V8s"

Edit: PC = Pepsi Cola

[Ed Rooney]

These are nothing more than transitional watches, and a competent watchmaker can fake one by swapping in a movement from a newer, more common watch like an 116710 or late model ExpII.

That does not bode well for long term collectibility. How are fat lady GMT's doing now?

[DVR]

Likewise it's extremely easy to switch to a 'comex' dial !
Proofs just about nothing.
Papers and serial numbers will make the watch 'correct'.

Pepsi Cola : drink
Pepsi GMT : A watch with the Pepsi colors

[wulfman]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

These are nothing more than transitional watches, and a competent watchmaker can fake one by swapping in a movement from a newer, more common watch like an 116710 or late model ExpII.

That does not bode well for long term collectibility. How are fat lady GMT's doing now?

To be honest: You must first find a watch which has a 3185 movement and is also in the range of a possible serial number which is supposed to have a 3186 movement. Lets say Z7**/Z8** serial range. Then it should be a stickered watch to catch the premium we're talking about. Lets say real NOS full stickered. Then you have to remove the case back sticker to change the movement. And in this moment not all stickers are virgin and you could possibly loose thousands of Euro/USD collectors are willing to pay for a all virgin stickered watch.

The same argument came up in 2008 in a german rolex board. But that is absolutely nonsence...

[dmitrii_]

So 3186 started with the Z8xxxx serial? Is that confirmed?