Buying a GMT-Master II or Submariner Date in Tokyo, Japan

[acaixguard]

Originally Posted by Azure Chicken

Ah, that's a tough one.

The SD4000 is one of the models that's cheaper at the grey, but you won't get the warranty. The SubC Date, on the other hand, is cheaper at the AD so you get both the cheaper price AND piece of mind.

I personally lean to the SubC (don't like the way the SD4000 sits on my wrist), but if the SD4000 is your first choice--and it sounds like it is--then you're probably better off going to Jack Road assuming their current website pricing holds up. That is, unless the 5 year warranty actually comes to fruition, in which case I'd probably spend a bit more and go to the AD.

A lot of speculation.

Slightly off topic, but would you mind updating this thread as to whether you were successfully able to order/have them hold a piece? I'm planning an excursion to Japan to buy another watch and I'd prefer not to hunt one down.

It was a tough call between the SD4K and the SubC. I am leaning towards the SD4K because I like the proportions of the lugs better, I think it has a clean look without the cyclops (and I do need the date), and I like the matte dial. I wasn't sure how the extra weight and thickness would sit on my wrist, but when I tried it on, it felt great. Just curious, what size wrist do you have?

Best case scenario, I can get the SD4K from an AD with the 5% off card, and then I will be able to have the same pricing as a grey, with the warranty.

I'll definitely keep you updated on the status of my search. I'm talking to my uncle throughout the week on what can be done to secure a particular piece.

[Azure Chicken]

Originally Posted by acf

I went to house kihirorobi yesterday to look for my GMT 2 Two tone, they had one. The price was 1190000 if paid by cash, Around 22xxxxx by card. no discounts.

I'm going to try an AD in Osaka in a few days. From what I've read on this thread, I hope it's an AD in a department store for the additional 5% off. That, combined with the passport no tax thing, I think the watch comes out to about $9600 USD?

I'm trying to decide if I should just buy a mint used one back at home in Cali and save a little money or a new one here in Japan.

I hope you won't have to make the trek, but if you don't have any luck in Osaka keep in mind that Kyoto is only an hour away. You can hit all three Kyoto department store AD's in a couple of hours since they're fairly close together.

I take you're looking for the 116713LN? There was one or two at the Kyoto Takashiyama AD when I was there (that's where I bought my GMT). If I'm not miskaten, the list price for that reference is ¥1,240,000, so I think your calculations are spot on. ¥1,178,000 assuming a 5% discount, so ~$9550 at today's rate.

Not bad at all. Considering that's less than the going rate for used ones that are several years old, there's no question I'd go for brand new (if I could find one, that is).

Good luck!

[Azure Chicken]

Originally Posted by acaixguard

It was a tough call between the SD4K and the SubC. I am leaning towards the SD4K because I like the proportions of the lugs better, I think it has a clean look without the cyclops (and I do need the date), and I like the matte dial. I wasn't sure how the extra weight and thickness would sit on my wrist, but when I tried it on, it felt great. Just curious, what size wrist do you have?

The SD4000 was on my radar too, but I tried one on this morning and crossed it off my list. I like everything about it save the thickness, but I also have girly wrists. A bit less than 6.7" around, but "round-ish" (ie, not a lot of flatness on the watch face side).

The actual thickness wasn't a huge concern since it would've been primarily a beach/leisure activity watch and wouldn't need to fit under cuffs, but the thickness made it feel a bit top heavy to me. I find the Sub to be much better balanced.

Originally Posted by acaixguard

Best case scenario, I can get the SD4K from an AD with the 5% off card, and then I will be able to have the same pricing as a grey, with the warranty.

Yup, that's the goal. I'm still grinning that I managed to get the GMT at an AD for a price that was significantly cheaper than the greys.

Originally Posted by acaixguard

I'll definitely keep you updated on the status of my search. I'm talking to my uncle throughout the week on what can be done to secure a particular piece.

Thanks! Would definitely appreciate any info.

[acaixguard]

Originally Posted by Azure Chicken

The SD4000 was on my radar too, but I tried one on this morning and crossed it off my list. I like everything about it save the thickness, but I also have girly wrists. A bit less than 6.7" around, but "round-ish" (ie, not a lot of flatness on the watch face side).

Ah, my wrist is just shy of 6.5", but I have a decent flat surface across the top of the wrist. So I guess my wrist shape is the opposite of yours. I'm guessing the flat top is the difference. Once I have the bracelet cinched to the correct size, it doesn't flop around too badly on me.

I'll report back here what I end up finding!

[acaixguard]

So my uncle made a visit to Daimaru for me, and had some not so promising info he passed along.

While they do have what I want in stock, they told him the 5% discount card for foreigners doesn't apply to watches (WTF?). Then, they told him that for the tax refund, they only give back 6.9%, and they hold 1.1% as a handling fee (bigger WTF???). Isn't that not even legal? He may make some inquiries about that one, cause that really sounds wrong to him.
On top of that, when he asked if it's possible to hold the watch with a deposit, they said maybe if it's paid in full. Forget that.

He will try some other ADs next for me.

[Azure Chicken]

Originally Posted by acaixguard

So my uncle made a visit to Daimaru for me, and had some not so promising info he passed along.

While they do have what I want in stock, they told him the 5% discount card for foreigners doesn't apply to watches (WTF?). Then, they told him that for the tax refund, they only give back 6.9%, and they hold 1.1% as a handling fee (bigger WTF???). Isn't that not even legal? He may make some inquiries about that one, cause that really sounds wrong to him.
On top of that, when he asked if it's possible to hold the watch with a deposit, they said maybe if it's paid in full. Forget that.

He will try some other ADs next for me.

Sounds odd. But then I remembered that you wrote that Daimaru told you that the 5% discount card didn't even exist when you called. I wouldn't cross them out yet.

The 1.1% "handling fee" is with all the department stores, not just Daimaru. I paid it at Takeshimaya too. I think they go through a service like Global Blue (some of them, anyway). It's the same the world over, unfortunately. Either way, 60 something bucks wasn't a dealbreaker.

Was your uncle able to find out if a watch could be ordered?

[acaixguard]

Ah, interesting about the 1.1%. Do you know if the grey dealers hold that 1.1% as well?

And you're right...it could be the lack of knowledge on the part of the saleswoman that my uncle talked to regarding the 5% discount card.

He didn't get to ask about ordering a watch, but that's because Daimaru happened to have the one I wanted in stock. He's going to try some other department stores in the near future, so I'll let you know what he finds out.

[Azure Chicken]

Originally Posted by acaixguard

Ah, interesting about the 1.1%. Do you know if the grey dealers hold that 1.1% as well?

To be clear, I don't believe it's the department stores themselves that are charging and pocketing the fee but the refund service company they use. All the department stores use Global Blue. It makes sense that those giant stores would outsource the VAT paperwork considering the sheer number they must have to process.

As far as the greys, if they're filling out and filing the VAT paperwork themselves then they may not charge a VAT refund handling fee, but I imagine at least a few would opt to use a refund service company like the aforementioned Global Blue.

I just checked and it seems that Jack Road and Housekihiroba do indeed use Global Blue, so I would expect to pay the 1.1% fee at those places as well.

[chewsta]

Hi All,
long time reader and just joined to view this thread and see the awesome pictures being posted.

Here is a post I stumbled upon on a HK forum (its in Chinese and I couldn't make sense of the translation after Google did its job)

http://www.discuss.com.hk/viewthread...age%3D9&page=1

So it appears that what is being said about the 5% shop discount, 6.9% tax refund and 1.1% handling fee is correct as of April this year. You can see clearly the pricing of 3 GMT 2s. I will assume the last one is the GMT2-C

Also found the Japan Rolex pricing to ADs as of Dec 2014
http://www.discuss.com.hk/viewthread...id=24178352###
looks to be most of the SS models
You may need to adjust the prices in buy 8-10% because Rolex Japan increased their prices in Feb this year.

This may or may not affect pricing for us travellers, but I read Japan is going to increase their Sales tax to 10% in October this year as well.

[acaixguard]

Thanks for that link. Would be curious to know what department store that purchase was from.

[toneafficianado]

I was there in April and was AMAZED when I went to a multi storey dept [chain] store called BIC Camera.
They have watches on one floor and everything from Invicta to Seiko to Rolex and Omega and I mean LOTS of them. Plenty of Sub Cs, YMs, Explorers 1 and 2 and some DJs but mainly 36mm ones of those. No TT subs or BLNR but they had LN version of GMTc.When you're used to a country where the AD spin is always "we haven't got that but we will put you on this waiting list" it's refreshing to be in a place where , if you have the money, the attitude is "how many do you want?". No problem with the language. Credit cards or cash work fine and if you know what you want there's no need to ask anything at all. Enjoy!
You won't do any good bargaining but the prices were great I thought/

[zapokee]

Point to note: The store in Shibuya is called Houseki Hiroba, not House Kihiroba.

Houseki means "jewel," and hiroba means "plaza," so the meaning is "jewel plaza."

Hence the "hh" in the logo, with the first "h" reversed.

[bbressler]

I've been PM'ing with acaixguard, but figured I'd chime in here. I'm pretty sure when I bought my 116710LN at HH back in December I got the full 8% tax refund, and then paid 3% extra for using a credit card. My receipts only show the final price, so I cannot confirm at this time.

The price was slightly higher than MSRP at an AD, but I tried several ADs and could not find it in stock at any of them. After a certain point I was happy to pay a slight premium at HH and enjoy our vacation rather than dragging my wife around to watch shops

[bbressler]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Point to note: The store in Shibuya is called Houseki Hiroba, not House Kihiroba.

Houseki means "jewel," and hiroba means "plaza," so the meaning is "jewel plaza."

Hence the "hh" in the logo, with the first "h" reversed.

Thanks for the info! I always wondered if it was one word or two, and where to split it up if two.

[bbressler]

Also, mine came with the full set of boxes and papers. The warranty card was from an AD in Singapore, dated 3 days prior to the date I bought it. The name area was left empty. I had no problem using this card at RSC BH to get the watch regulated (it ran a pretty consistent +6), although they didn't really examine the card or swipe it or anything when I went in.

[Scholar]

Use the savings to pick up a GS HAQ while you're at it!

[SeikoSam]

Originally Posted by Azure Chicken

I know this wasn't directed at me, but to answer your question, the 114060 is currently priced at ¥710,000 at the ADs. I very nearly bought one in addition to the GMT--as I mentioned in a post above, I kinda regret passing on it because it was such a deal.

The 114060 I saw was at the Isetan department store AD in Kyoto, and as the sales staff pointed out, with the Isetan discount card my price would've been ¥674,500. It was pretty tempting since that would've meant a final price of under $5400.

Planning to head back in a month or two to buy a Sub LV, but I may "settle" for a 114060 if I don't have any luck finding a green Sub.

Wow... Thats a great price. Hope you find your LV

[Nsx_23]

Does anyone know the prices for stainless steel daytonas in japan?

[Gaijin]

[QUOTE=Nsx_23;5927554]Does anyone know the prices for stainless steel daytonas in japan?[/QUOTE

Man I was just at ADs today. I did not see any new but saw some used at greys. I could not tell you the price. Your best bet price wise is Tokyo though. I can tell you this though. 6 months ago I was offered 1700000 Yen for a Rolex I was thinking of selling at a grey. Exact same Rolex today I was offered 2100000 Yen. That is what the yen dollar valuation has done. I also noticed that prices were way higher.

[Tokyo Time]

Originally Posted by zapokee

I'd go to a shop called Jack Road at Nakano Station in Tokyo, and Hoseki Hiroba in Shibuya. They both have a wide selection and tend to stock SubCs and GMTs.

They're trustworthy grey dealers, so prices are below Rolex retail. Both shops have English-speaking staff. Just hope they're on duty when you go...

Like Zappo said!

[Azure Chicken]

Originally Posted by SeikoSam

Wow... Thats a great price. Hope you find your LV

Cheers! I hope so too, but trying to find any SS models, much less a specific ref at a Japanese AD these days...well, needle, haystack, etc.

[Azure Chicken]

Originally Posted by Nsx_23

Does anyone know the prices for stainless steel daytonas in japan?

AD price is ¥1,150,000 (~$9,350) but you might have better luck hitting the lottery than finding one at an AD.

Price at a grey like Jack Road is ¥1,433,334 or ~$11,650. It's ¥1,407,407 at Housekihiroba, or ~$11,450.

Obviously cheaper at the AD, but again, the issue is the inventory, or lack thereof. Plenty of SS Daytona in stock at the greys though.

[Nsx_23]

Wow that's not as cheap as I thought it would be, and finding one at an AD would be like winning the lottery.

[Azure Chicken]

Originally Posted by Nsx_23

Wow that's not as cheap as I thought it would be, and finding one at an AD would be like winning the lottery.

Meh, the Daytona isn't going to be "cheap" anywhere, especially considering it's a non PM watch. I paid $12 for mine at an AD here in the states so even the grey prices don't look too bad for me.

If you ask me, the biggest bargains are for certain TT models like the 116713 GMTc, which you can pick up from HH for ~$9,000, about the same price as a BLNR. I'm not generally a huge fan of TT watches but the TT GMT is amazing in the metal.

That said, if you can find a Daytona at a Japanese department store AD, it'd only set you back ~$8,750 with the 5% discount card, which is quite the bargain. Of course, I probably have a better chance of getting Monica Bellucci's phone number than chance on a SS Daytona just sitting around at a Japanese AD...

[Nsx_23]

Yeah, the stainless daytona is a mythical beast. I guess I shouldn't have been expecting big discounts on a daytona - but maybe a blnr is worth picking up.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Azure Chicken

Meh, the Daytona isn't going to be "cheap" anywhere, especially considering it's a non PM watch. I paid $12 for mine at an AD here in the states

Jeez, them's quite some haggling skills!

[Azure Chicken]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Jeez, them's quite some haggling skills!

Ha! You're quite the careful reader!

Obviously, I meant to type $12k, but yes, my negotiating skills are without equal--I managed to talk them into letting me pay full retail price!

[acaixguard]

Are there any stainless sport models that have a chance to be found at a Tokyo AD these days? Like the Sub, SD, GMT, Explorer, etc?

Also do Tokyo ADs take orders for the Daytonas, or is it just a matter of being at the right place at the right time?

[Azure Chicken]

Originally Posted by acaixguard

Are there any stainless sport models that have a chance to be found at a Tokyo AD these days? Like the Sub, SD, GMT, Explorer, etc?

Also do Tokyo ADs take orders for the Daytonas, or is it just a matter of being at the right place at the right time?

I would think so. I found my SS GMT at an AD, after all. Worst case scenario, if the AD is dry you could pick up the SD4000 from a grey like HH. It'd only be 30 bucks more than buying from a department store AD, and still about a grand cheaper than the best grey price in the states (ie, DavidSW).

While finding one at an AD is the most attractive option, what with the announcement from Rolex confirming the 5 year warranty, I'd seriously consider a grey (assuming no stock at an AD) for certain models like the SD4000 since the price discrepancy isn't that great (unlike most other SS models).

I thought your uncle was looking into the possibility of ordering from an AD--any updates?

[acaixguard]

Thanks for the feedback. My uncle is checking some more AD's, specifically the ones by Nihonbashi. He probably hasn't made his way there yet though. I'm not too hopeful about placing one on hold though. They would probably ask for full payment up front, and I'm not about to ask him to front me that much money. And I still have about 6 weeks until my trip there.