I HATE WHEN RSC's SWAP PARTS WITHOUT PERMISSION! To me it's a BIG Issue!

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Ckci

There is a thread I just read today about a guy who sent in his explorer I for some work and the T-Rex hand (short minute hand) was swapped out without his consent. Rolex service people doing this without the owners written consent makes it impossible for me to feel good about sending them any watch of mine. This is especially true when it comes to all original Vintage Rolex watches! Here is my response on that thread. As a TRF family I think we have they ability to get this very dangerous practice changed. I'd like to explore the idea of producing an open letter that members could sign onto and that could be sent to Rolex Inc, the RSC's and to the AD's. As owners of fine Rolex watches we all love we have the right to have them serviced with confidence that we will get them back without key parts of their heritage being removed! I'm sure plenty of people on the site don't care about this as an issue but I'm also sure there are many here who see these as collectable in there original condition and don't want any parts removed without their permission.

Here's a copy of my other post:
" I absolutely HATE when Rolex feels like they can do whatever the H*LL they want with a watch! To me that is FELONY when they start removing and confiscating original parts off of watches. These original parts have lots of value when it comes to older watches. These people at RSC's know this and I'd be shocked it they aren't taking these home and selling them on the black market for a substantial profit. Anyone who is into Vintage knows how drastically that can impact the value of a watch. Service dials etc are complete BS if the change wasn't requested. I will never trust one of my vintage watches to them. If they ask and the person opts in for a swap like this that is one thing but otherwise it makes me despise the RSC's. Anyone who gets into collecting Vintage Rolex watches I'm sure feels the same!"

Does anyone agree?

Sincerely,
Russell

I agree with you that dials and hands should be left alone unless agreed to by the owner, as it could certainly have an adverse effect on the value. For the same reason, cases should be left unpolished unless specifically requested. As others have mentioned though, Rolex is not in the business of restoration and iirc they don't even offer service for watches beyond a certain age. If originality is important to you then best to find an independent service center that will work with you.

While I support your sentiment, I think RSC is unlikely to change to accommodate you. Also, in the United States at least, the federal government defines a felony as a crime punishable by death or imprisonment in excess of one year. I don't have a problem with the use of caps as some others have, but punishable by death does seem a bit excessive.

[Porter]

I agree with you Russell. That's the reason I service my watches myself and I decide if I polish or replace a part or whatever.
I'm not a purist. I love watches look like new but that's MY decision and I don't allow anyone to touch them. Its true most of my watches are 100% original but if I scratch a bezel insert nearly sure I'll replace it and keep the original in the box.
Sometimes I repair friend's watches and NEVER would change a piece without their permission! And if need to change something the old parts are returned with the watch.
Wish you the best.

[subtona]

I agree w u Russell, it is a very poor way to treat your customers, I believe nyc is the worst of the bunch according to what others have written about the other locations (I have plenty of nyc experience of my own)

Sadly Rolex is completely insulated from even the slightest concern for this issue.

They believe you are leasing their watch under contract that is accompanied by a list of dos and donts...there answer is if you don't like it, too bad.

So the choice remains in the consumers lap to vote with their pocket.

[artschool]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

Agreed. This thread is hard to understand, RSC strives to restore to like NEW condition, yet people are up in arms over replacing old parts...confusing!

I also think this patina craze is full-on madness. People paying more for wear and tear than for like new....

8k for a blnr and 7500 for an old gmt damaged, not keeping time and a bracelet that looks like a slinky. "It will be worth millions one day".

i agree with you.

its like taking my car in for a service.

"we polished out those scratches for you"

"YOU RUINED THE PATINA OF MY DOOR"

[dexvd]

Originally Posted by Ckci

I would think and hope Rolex headquarters would care enough to excel in the area of customer service for their customers if for no other reason than they are loosing revenue to Rolex owners who don't trust the RSC's to get things right for them. I don't understand why people think its too tough or maybe not possible to meet the needs of both camps of Rolex watch owners. I don't see the two as mutually exclusive nor do I see it as a tough problem to fix. I think it can be solved by simply adding a few lines to a form that follows the watch through its time at the RSC. If this form was filled out before service took place on any Rolex at any RSC then I think the problem practically goes away overnight or over a lunch break. Rolex can and should do better at meeting the needs of all Rolex owners. This becomes increasingly important as parts become harder to find and for those in countries where other excellent options are less readily available.
Attachment 743840

Such a form would be great as they seem to disregard written instructions from my personal experience in terms of what to do and what not to do... Why can't they just service the movement and leave the rest alone if thats what the customer wants?

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by Tony64

I agree with you that dials and hands should be left alone unless agreed to by the owner, as it could certainly have an adverse effect on the value. For the same reason, cases should be left unpolished unless specifically requested. As others have mentioned though, Rolex is not in the business of restoration and iirc they don't even offer service for watches beyond a certain age. If originality is important to you then best to find an independent service center that will work with you.

While I support your sentiment, I think RSC is unlikely to change to accommodate you. Also, in the United States at least, the federal government defines a felony as a crime punishable by death or imprisonment in excess of one year. I don't have a problem with the use of caps as some others have, but punishable by death does seem a bit excessive.

I don't remember saying anything about anyone being punished by death although there are probably some Asian countries where maybe that would be the case. My TRF friend Ruud Van Driver recently stated he doesn't have to worry much about break ins and theft of his watches in Singapore because these crimes tend to be punishable by death in Hong Kong. I consider them to be worthy of felony charges based on the following fairly standard US definition since any vintage bezel or hands would often exceed a $500 value.

For those who just want their watches as shiny and new as possible I understand this cause is not your cause and that's cool. It's one less thing for you to worry about unless you feel the need to be bothered by the fact that it bothers me.
to all. I do appreciate people expressing their feelings.

Russell

[Ckci]

Here is the form I suggested on the previous page.

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by artschool

i agree with you.

its like taking my car in for a service.

"we polished out those scratches for you"

"YOU RUINED THE PATINA OF MY DOOR"

Or maybe it's like me taking my car in for an oil change and to get a belt replaced and I get it back and they say we charged your rear spoiler out to one that goes up and down depending on your speed! Also we are keeping the old one. (Who wouldn't be happy with that)? I guess if I don't like the policy I just should shut up and not take it to the dealer especially because your thrilled you now have one that goes up and down.
What I find humerous is that as you guys try to argue your points I feel you are making it easier for me to make mine.

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by dexvd

Such a form would be great as they seem to disregard written instructions from my personal experience in terms of what to do and what not to do... Why can't they just service the movement and leave the rest alone if thats what the customer wants?

Thx!

Originally Posted by subtona

I agree w u Russell, it is a very poor way to treat your customers, I believe nyc is the worst of the bunch according to what others have written about the other locations (I have plenty of nyc experience of my own)

Sadly Rolex is completely insulated from even the slightest concern for this issue.

They believe you are leasing their watch under contract that is accompanied by a list of dos and donts...there answer is if you don't like it, too bad.

So the choice remains in the consumers lap to vote with their pocket.

Thx Gus! As I've said before, I'll say again, I have a ton of respect for you as a watch guy and for you many years of brave service to the public. I appreciate you stating your opinion here as well.

Originally Posted by Porter

I agree with you Russell. That's the reason I service my watches myself and I decide if I polish or replace a part or whatever.
I'm not a purist. I love watches look like new but that's MY decision and I don't allow anyone to touch them. Its true most of my watches are 100% original but if I scratch a bezel insert nearly sure I'll replace it and keep the original in the box.
Sometimes I repair friend's watches and NEVER would change a piece without their permission! And if need to change something the old parts are returned with the watch.
Wish you the best.

Carlos that's Very Impressive. I take my hat off to you. Sending friend request for your consideration.

Originally Posted by Tony64

I agree with you that dials and hands should be left alone unless agreed to by the owner, as it could certainly have an adverse effect on the value. For the same reason, cases should be left unpolished unless specifically requested. As others have mentioned though, Rolex is not in the business of restoration and iirc they don't even offer service for watches beyond a certain age. If originality is important to you then best to find an independent service center that will work with you.

While I support your sentiment, I think RSC is unlikely to change to accommodate you. Also, in the United States at least, the federal government defines a felony as a crime punishable by death or imprisonment in excess of one year. I don't have a problem with the use of caps as some others have, but punishable by death does seem a bit excessive.

Tony I am sure you are right. They won't do it for me but I do think there enough big guns on here to get enough of a policy chage to get 5 lines added to a form that would accompany any watch receiving service at a RSC. I appreciate that you think they shouldn't make changes the owner of the watch doesn't want. To be clear I am not asking Rolex to do Vintage restoration. I am talking about being able to get the movement on a Rolex serviced without getting a modern restoration. That seems like it should be pretty easy. "Service the movement. Don't add your modern touches to an older or newer original watch."

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Ckci

I don't remember saying anything about anyone being punished by death although there are probably some Asian countries where maybe that would be the case. My TRF friend Ruud Van Driver recently stated he doesn't have to worry much about break ins and theft of his watches in Singapore because these crimes tend to be punishable by death in Hong Kong. I consider them to be worthy of felony charges based on the following fairly standard US definition since any vintage bezel or hands would often exceed a $500 value.
Attachment 743863
For those who just want their watches as shiny and new as possible I understand this cause is not your cause and that's cool. It's one less thing for you to worry about unless you feel the need to be bothered by the fact that it bothers me.
to all. I do appreciate people expressing their feelings.

Russell

Singapore and Hong Kong are two separate places, and Hong Kong doesn't have the death penalty.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Ckci

I don't remember saying anything about anyone being punished by death although there are probably some Asian countries where maybe that would be the case. My TRF friend Ruud Van Driver recently stated he doesn't have to worry much about break ins and theft of his watches in Singapore because these crimes tend to be punishable by death in Hong Kong. I consider them to be worthy of felony charges based on the following fairly standard US definition since any vintage bezel or hands would often exceed a $500 value.
Attachment 743863
For those who just want their watches as shiny and new as possible I understand this cause is not your cause and that's cool. It's one less thing for you to worry about unless you feel the need to be bothered by the fact that it bothers me.
to all. I do appreciate people expressing their feelings.

Russell

Hey, I'm no lawyer, I was just making what I thought was a tongue in cheek remark to lighten the mood. Clearly there must be a difference between "felony" and "felony theft", but I have neither the time nor interest to research it.

felony
n. 1) a crime sufficiently serious to be punishable by death or a term in state or federal prison, as distinguished from a misdemeanor which is only punishable by confinement to county or local jail and/or a fine. 2) a crime carrying a minimum term of one year or more in state prison, since a year or less can be served in county jail. However, a sentence upon conviction for a felony may sometimes be less than one year at the discretion of the judge and within limits set by statute. Felonies are sometimes referred to as "high crimes" as described in the U. S. Constitution. (See: sentence, misdemeanor)
Copyright © 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill. All Right reserved.


FWIW, I'm actually on your side and for that reason would never send a vintage piece to RSC. As important as this Forum may be though, I just don't think that even our support will change Rolex decisions, but I'll be the first to sign your petition. I sincerely hope that they will give thought to this issue, certainly when a change results in a modification of any cosmetic aspect of the watch. I would be very unhappy with a replacement dial or hands on any watch sent for mechanical servicing, as well as unauthorized polishing. The mechanical parts that are unseen are another story and should be the focus of their servicing. I completely agree that the watch is sent in for servicing and NOT to be reconditioned "like new" unless requested, and then I would expect at additional cost.

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Singapore and Hong Kong are two separate places, and Hong Kong doesn't have the death penalty.

Thanks Adam! You of course are right! Ruud Van Driver is from Singapore. I apologize for getting that wrong. It seemed strange at the time I wrote it and Ruud Van Driver may have been exaggerating. My main point was I'm not suggesting the death penalty for anyone but there are places where even petty theft may be punished harshly. After Speedolex's thread on vintage Rolex shops in Hong Kong I'm anxious to visit. I was just talking to my son about that thread yesterday and your description of the 70 AD's in Hong Kong and your laying out of the roadmap to the throng of Vintage Rolex shops in Hong Kong!

[eonflux]

Originally Posted by Ckci

Or maybe it's like me taking my car in for an oil change and to get a belt replaced and I get it back and they say we charged your rear spoiler out to one that goes up and down depending on your speed! Also we are keeping the old one. (Who wouldn't be happy with that)? I guess if I don't like the policy I just should shut up and not take it to the dealer especially because your thrilled you now have one that goes up and down. Attachment 743867
What I find humerous is that as you guys try to argue your points I feel you are making it easier for me to make mine.

Awesome car!
Love the 993TT
May be the best looking 911 turbo ever
(and I love my 991 and think the 991TT looks pretty damn good)

[artschool]

Originally Posted by Ckci

My TRF friend Ruud Van Driver recently stated he doesn't have to worry much about break ins and theft of his watches in Singapore because these crimes tend to be punishable by death in Hong Kong. I consider them to be worthy of felony charges based on the following fairly standard US definition since any vintage bezel or hands would often exceed a $500 value.

Originally Posted by Ckci

What I find humerous is that as you guys try to argue your points I feel you are making it easier for me to make mine.

you have indeed argued your point well.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by josephvman

Um...no.

This has been policy for decades at RSC's, and if you're servicing a watch that this might be an issue with (vintage, collectible, etc.) you would know this. If you don't want a dial/hands changed at an RSC, it's a simple matter of discussing what they will and won't do before they service your piece. If the piece isn't important enough to you to have a "meeting of the minds" beforehand, then this is where you end up, and it's not their fault, it's yours.

There are plenty of qualified people who will work on your watch with the intention of doing minimally-invasive service or repairs, and all it takes is a simple search right here on TRF. There are literally hundreds of threads on the topic.

I do not believe there is anything simple about it, if Rolex doesn't make an effort to detail what work they will do.

If Rolex says your bezel insert is scratched & dented, we recommend replacing it.
But they do not mention that the color may be different and the fat font is no longer available and the matching tritium pip will be replaced with a white luminova pip, how would the customer know what questions to ask and what damage may been done...surely the old watch will look shiny and new upon completion...then sometime later, after your original parts have found their way to the trash, you begin to realize somethings are not quite the same.

Of course the example of a matte dial with oversize plots being swapped without pointing out the impact just in looks (not to mention value) is one of the most heinous crimes RSC commits.

Rounding out beautifully beveled lugs or crown guards and one of the things I find particularly vexing is grinding down the bezel during polishing as if that has any function or use...I could barely grip and turn my bezel after RSCNY got through with it.

My feeling is that when you visit RSC, they should spend a few minutes with each customer to articulate what will be done along with your options. If that is too much work then they can put some pamphlets in the waiting room, it really isn't that hard.

RSCNY strong arm tactics are quite obnoxious and completely without justification. I truly do not see how anyone would attempt to deny the customers best interest by defending RSC bully like practices. Of course I would agree that if there was a concern of sorts with for example a tritium dial flaking then the customer would have to sign off on the warranty and maybe even have to waive it in some circumstance.


On a side note, among other disappointing service visits, I caught RSCNY in a flat out lie charging me for a service that they did not provide (replacement of crown and tube)...1 week later they offered to "replace it again"

On the point of plenty of qualified people, I also very much disagree. I think it is like finding a needle in a hay stack. I recall my trusted auto mechanic telling me he was retiring...my solution was to sell my car.


Rant time out.


Ps Russell.

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by artschool

you have indeed argued your point well.

Thanks! My desire is really not for that and I knew this thread would carry some level of controversy and that is also not why I started it and I considered just posting it on the Vintage site but that would have been like preaching to the choir behind closed doors which although the support would have likely been overwhelming it would have been less interesting. I carry very little weight with Rolex but the forum has the ability to have its voice heard to the point that the series of 5 questions could be added to the intake form when a watch is accepted for service. I will admit to intentionally using caps and purposely choosing somewhat strong and inflammatory language in the title and post to draw people into the thread as I was wanting to get participation and I wasn't looking to "fly under the radar" with this one and I think I at least got to voice my opinion to a fair number of people 2,346 in about < 35 hours which is nice but doesn't priduce the change I wish could take place. I will discuss the 5 question intake form with my AD and see if they have any suggestions on the most fruitful way to bring it up with the RSC's. I'd love it if some of you who feel similarly would do the same. Dallas seems like they've been more responsive in the past so maybe I'll start there and see who I can speak with re: the idea of a form.
To All and thanks for your participation here!
Russell

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by subtona

I do not believe there is anything simple about it, if Rolex doesn't make an effort to detail what work they will do.

If Rolex says your bezel insert is scratched & dented, we recommend replacing it.
But they do not mention that the color may be different and the fat font is no longer available and the matching tritium pip will be replaced with a white luminova pip, how would the customer know what questions to ask and what damage may been done...surely the old watch will look shiny and new upon completion...then sometime later, after your original parts have found their way to the trash, you begin to realize somethings are not quite the same.

Of course the example of a matte dial with oversize plots being swapped without pointing out the impact just in looks (not to mention value) is one of the most heinous crimes RSC commits.

Rounding out beautifully beveled lugs or crown guards and one of the things I find particularly vexing is grinding down the bezel during polishing as if that has any function or use...I could barely grip and turn my bezel after RSCNY got through with it.

My feeling is that when you visit RSC, they should spend a few minutes with each customer to articulate what will be done along with your options. If that is too much work then they can put some pamphlets in the waiting room, it really isn't that hard.

RSCNY strong arm tactics are quite obnoxious and completely without justification. I truly do not see how anyone would attempt to deny the customers best interest by defending RSC bully like practices. Of course I would agree that if there was a concern of sorts with for example a tritium dial flaking then the customer would have to sign off on the warranty and maybe even have to waive it in some circumstance.


On a side note, among other disappointing service visits, I caught RSCNY in a flat out lie charging me for a service that they did not provide (replacement of crown and tube)...1 week later they offered to "replace it again"

Rant time out.


Ps Russell.

Gus,

You are truly a stud! You experience is first hand and is the real deal and is no way to treat a valuable repeat customer such as yourself or customer for that matter.

to you my friend!
Russell

To have a form to protect our watches from being adulterated is completely reasonable. I picture the form with the appropriate check boxes marked and signed by the customer electronically or otherwise and being given to the customer as part of his receipt that shows one of the RSC's is servicing his watch.

[Muzz]

I fully understand that Russell! When I am at my RSC (walking distance from my house) I talk directly to the technician (good friend) about my needs. I realize many people are not so lucky!!

[Spartacus]

Originally Posted by Ckci

I get that you don't get it. I understand not everyone minds replacement parts that are different than the original parts. I'm not trying to offend you or anyone else who wants polishing and new hands put on their watches that's fine but those of us want to trust the RSC technician to give our watches an "extreme makeover" should be able to get our watches old or new serviced safely at a RSC.

Sorry I don't see the resemblance between this:Attachment 743820 and the bracelet below:

Certainly agree that if you want to retain a certain aspect of the watch / patina and you want it kept and Rolex decides to disregard your request, agree that is not right. I suspect there may be warranty implications at play from Rolex's service perspective.

Regarding the slinky, I was referring to the horizontal bracelet pictures showing how well the bracelet is held together or in some examples, the bracelet is in desperate need of Michael Young's services - and how collectors value a damaged original bracelet greater than a polished or new bracelet...its just a different school of thought.

In my experience, RSC never has been the place to go for custom vintage jobs. It's like cars, (as you know) you need to find the right Indy shop to do the service on the 993 TT .... Definelty not Porsche of Beverly Hills

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by Muzz

I fully understand that Russell! When I am at my RSC (walking distance from my house) I talk directly to the technician (good friend) about my needs. I realize many people are not so lucky!!

Muzz, that's cool! You are one in a million! Thanks for sharing your experience my friend!


Russell

[Cimballi]

Originally Posted by artschool

i agree with you.

its like taking my car in for a service.

"we polished out those scratches for you"

"YOU RUINED THE PATINA OF MY DOOR"

Interesting analogy.
It may depend on the local laws but in most places, when you take your car to a repair shop, the replaced parts are yours and can be delivered to you.

[peterskinner]

Let me play devil's advocate as you generally agree with each other; forum people are just a small percentage of Rolex customers, maybe 5% or so, or less. From that small sample, a small group are true vintage guys; which means you are a very small, to tiny, group in terms of Rolex business.

Rolex are not in the job of preserving vintage watches; any more than the main Porsche dealer is interested in preserving vintage cars. It's a different market.
For instance, supposing Rolex change many parts of the mechanism because of wear. That means the movement is no longer 'original.' Would that be Rolex 'ruining' the value? Can they update the mainspring? It wasn't like that when the watch was made. What's the difference between updating a mechanical part and a worn hand or bezel?. They don't offer a restoration service.
Rolex have literally millions of watches to service, millions. They just are not orientated to you as a group.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I'm trying to see things from a more mainstream perspective.
Firms like Ferrari, Jaguar and Aston Martin have acknowledged this problem by setting-up specialist restoration services. .

[Cimballi]

I have not been in the situation described by the OP but I fully understand the frustration.

This said, my comments are:

1. Rolex top management has a culture of not caring much about customers.
As long as their products are objects of worship, and sell very well, why should they?

2. The fact that they include the cosmetics of the watch into the standard service protocol is a reflection of the way they see their products...bling. The shinier the better.

3. Their reluctance to give the old parts back to the owner after service (unlike some other brands) is likely to be an attempt to dry off the replacement part market to fight all sorts of copies and frankenwatches.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by peterskinner

Let me play devil's advocate as you generally agree with each other; forum people are just a small percentage of Rolex customers, maybe 5% or so, or less. From that small sample, a small group are true vintage guys; which means you are a very small, to tiny, group in terms of Rolex business.

Rolex are not in the job of preserving vintage watches; any more than the main Porsche dealer is interested in preserving vintage cars. It's a different market.
For instance, supposing Rolex change many parts of the mechanism because of wear. That means the movement is no longer 'original.' Would that be Rolex 'ruining' the value? Can they update the mainspring? It wasn't like that when the watch was made. What's the difference between updating a mechanical part and a worn hand or bezel?. They don't offer a restoration service.
Rolex have literally millions of watches to service, millions. They just are not orientated to you as a group.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I'm trying to see things from a more mainstream perspective.
Firms like Ferrari, Jaguar and Aston Martin have acknowledged this problem by setting-up specialist restoration services. .
The particular, and very specific, requirements of vintage watch collectors, are beyond what Rolex are set-up to provide. To be blunt, they are not interested in the restoration business.

Good points and well stated.

I do however see a distinction between an internal component such as a spring vs a cosmetic component such as a dial.

Agree it is not Rolex business to be concerned regarding resale by a customer but it should be their concern regarding returning a watch back to a customer as they received it unless there has been a clear understanding agreed upon. Changing the look or impacting the watch in any way that would take the customer by surprise should be discussed.

One of the first experience I had with them, they removed the case back sticker of my 5 year old watch without any consideration of my preference.
I am Not debating leaving a sticker on or off (I know members have different feelings on this) but I am saying it's my watch and my sticker and I choose to do what I want with it...

functuonlity issues aside, Rolex should never dictate nor impact the cosmetic preferences or original design of a customer's watch without understanding and consent. It's just not that hard to do.

Ps I have gone through my fair share of watches in the past few years and I will say that my repeated unsatisfactory experience specifically with RSCNY has greatly impacted my decisions on the watches I have purchased since those experiences.

[jeffgo888]

Ok, so I guess, ONE question:

1). You have a vintage valuable watch. You send it in for service to RSC.
a) YOU are specific that THEY DO NOT replace any original materials.
If they do, then is THAT NOT a basis for a lawsuit? If it devalues your property, it's property damage.

b) If you do NOT specify, and they replace, then you do not have a ground to stand on.

For me, it seems simple. I send it in, they DO the WORK I ask them to do. If they deviate and it destroys the value of my property, then that is the basis of a legal claim.
it is OUR property. period.
We are the consumer, the customer.

just my 2 cents

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by jeffgo888

Ok, so I guess, ONE question:

1). You have a vintage valuable watch. You send it in for service to RSC.
a) YOU are specific that THEY DO NOT replace any original materials.
If they do, then is THAT NOT a basis for a lawsuit? If it devalues your property, it's property damage.

b) If you do NOT specify, and they replace, then you do not have a ground to stand on.

For me, it seems simple. I send it in, they DO the WORK I ask them to do. If they deviate and it destroys the value of my property, then that is the basis of a legal claim.
it is OUR property. period.
We are the consumer, the customer.

just my 2 cents

I appreciate your input and I know this sounds like it would work in theory but the only winners in this scenario would be the lawyers. The legal costs of fighting Rolex would easily be $800/hour. I can't imagine getting out of that nightmare without loosing $50-100k for round one and then they'd appeal. No attorney would take this on a contingent basis for an individual. Rolex would be seasoned at being in the ring and would crush you or me just by stringing the whole thing out if nothing out if nothing else. It would have to be a class action suit and even with a "win" all the real money would go to legal fees. This would be a case of the treatment being worse than the disease. You may disagree and that's fine but I can't imagine a law suit against Rolex as a way to come out on top.

Honestly, when I read your words about sending a vintage piece in to Rolex for service I cringed a bit inside at the thought of it. They are so big and there are probably so many hands, new dings and scratches that can happen that they probably have to "polish" it out at the end of the experience. I'm sure they are careful but at the end of the day they don't know if a scratch was there when it came in or they did it so I can see how the free polish policy came to be. It's no wonder these pieces come back without lugs. My first Rolex has a pretty deep scratch on the clasp that I put there. They'd have to polish the clasp way down to get rid of it. I see lots of Rolex watches for sale that have lost the definition of their clasp and I'm sure this is how that happens. I'd much rather keep the scratch on the clasp. Just to polish out the scratches a lot of these watches come in with is going to lead to lots of shiny but over polished watches. Since posting this thread I've had some people PM me and telling me the Patek experience is much different. I can believe that. The main thing I'd like to see which I think is reasonable is to know Rolex wouldn't change hands, dials or bezels that I didn't want changed because it changes the watch. The term Frankenwatch gets thrown around a lot here for watches people alter but really Rolex spits them out on a daily basis. I, and I'm sure many others, don't want even their modern original Rolex watch coming back to them as a shiny overpolished Frankenwatch. Once again thanks to everyone for reading and especially your participation in this thread.

Russell

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by peterskinner

Let me play devil's advocate as you generally agree with each other; forum people are just a small percentage of Rolex customers, maybe 5% or so, or less. From that small sample, a small group are true vintage guys; which means you are a very small, to tiny, group in terms of Rolex business.

Rolex are not in the job of preserving vintage watches; any more than the main Porsche dealer is interested in preserving vintage cars. It's a different market.
For instance, supposing Rolex change many parts of the mechanism because of wear. That means the movement is no longer 'original.' Would that be Rolex 'ruining' the value? Can they update the mainspring? It wasn't like that when the watch was made. What's the difference between updating a mechanical part and a worn hand or bezel?. They don't offer a restoration service.
Rolex have literally millions of watches to service, millions. They just are not orientated to you as a group.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I'm trying to see things from a more mainstream perspective.
Firms like Ferrari, Jaguar and Aston Martin have acknowledged this problem by setting-up specialist restoration services. .

Originally Posted by Cimballi

I have not been in the situation described by the OP but I fully understand the frustration.

This said, my comments are:

1. Rolex top management has a culture of not caring much about customers.
As long as their products are objects of worship, and sell very well, why should they?

2. The fact that they include the cosmetics of the watch into the standard service protocol is a reflection of the way they see their products...bling. The shinier the better.

3. Their reluctance to give the old parts back to the owner after service (unlike some other brands) is likely to be an attempt to dry off the replacement part market to fight all sorts of copies and frankenwatches.

Thanks guys for your thoughtful input.

[Ckci]

Originally Posted by subtona

Good points and well stated.

I do however see a distinction between an internal component such as a spring vs a cosmetic component such as a dial.

Agree it is not Rolex business to be concerned regarding resale by a customer but it should be their concern regarding returning a watch back to a customer as they received it unless there has been a clear understanding agreed upon. Changing the look or impacting the watch in any way that would take the customer by surprise should be discussed.

One of the first experience I had with them, they removed the case back sticker of my 5 year old watch without any consideration of my preference.
I am Not debating leaving a sticker on or off (I know members have different feelings on this) but I am saying it's my watch and my sticker and I choose to do what I want with it...

functuonlity issues aside, Rolex should never dictate nor impact the cosmetic preferences or original design of a customer's watch without understanding and consent. It's just not that hard to do.

Ps I have gone through my fair share of watches in the past few years and I will say that my repeated unsatisfactory experience specifically with RSCNY has greatly impacted my decisions on the watches I have purchased since those experiences.

You answered this way better than I could have. I can see myself loosing some enthusiasm for some watches because of the issues you've raised through your experiences here. It shouldn't be that way and it's sad your choice of watches has been impacted by poor RSC experiences but I can understand what you are saying. Thanks for your very valuable participation in this discussion. I'm learning a lot from it and my views are being shaped by it.
my friend.
Russell

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by artschool

i agree with you.

its like taking my car in for a service.

"we polished out those scratches for you"

"YOU RUINED THE PATINA OF MY DOOR"

[Mick P]

Chaps

We all know that Rolex have an image and a brand to protect and that means that they do not want to service a watch and have it coming back looking like its fifty years old.

We all know it will come back looking brand new and possibly with slightly different hands and dials.

I had a 1655 recently serviced and Rolex made it clear that it would come back looking brand new and polished, so it was my choice whether I gave it to them or not.

I chose to have the watch serviced by an independant Rolex agent and it came back looking its age of 35 years which proves what a barmy world watch collecting is.

We all know the rules and if you don't like them, chose another brand and Rolex would probably be glad to see the back of you.

Regards

Mick