Brit visiting California - what's the ettiqette with......

[Corey986]

Just remember to double check if you are out in a group. Usually parties of 6 people or more for restaurants include a 15% or 20% tip. It will be itemized.

I personally always tip 20% for any service related function rounding up to the nearest dollar. If the service is amazing, I might do 25% if I'm paying, but if work is paying, 20% is what my auditors won't go crazy about.

For Starbucks just tip a dollar no matter how big the order is.

For taxi, use Uber. No tipping required.

For general purchases, no tip and we do not have VAT, but there will be state sales tax on top of your purchases.

Enjoy your trip,
Cheers,
Corey

[SMD]

Originally Posted by bayerische

US tipping is out of hand IMHO.

I do it when I visit, but much more enjoy the free-style tipping of Europe. I leave 20-25% here too, when it has actually been great service, food, everything!

But giving 15% (as a minimum), say easily 30 dollars to a rude, poor service minded individual, who you had to ask twice for the wine list, and three times for that aperitif you ordered once you walked in 20min ago isn't what I would call "sane" practice.

I got an idea...What if US started to do what we do in Europe??? We charge about the same for the same food (at restaurants) we have included tax of 10-25% depending on member country and item, (food about 10-15%, liquor about 19-25%), we pay our waiters, cooks etc a decent wage, minimum about 10 euro/hour, so that they can feed themselves and their families from their work, which is actually appreciated work, not looked down upon.

It has been tried many times in the US with mixed results. If you google about this topic in NYC (what I am familiar with) you can read about the structural issues that make it difficult to switch.

[pickettt]

I work hard everyday, and treat all of my clients with dignity and respect. I go out of my way for them so often, it's not even out of my way anymore. Yet, I don't get any tips.....are they ignorant or assholes?

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Uncle-AJ

Who do you tip at a buffet? After all, you are serving yourself.

Agreed, I've never tipped at a buffet, unless there's a server bringing coffee or beverages to the table. Then I'll tip a couple bucks, and I suppose something for the busboy, but not a fixed percentage of the meal.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Uncle-AJ

I was the tenth member, the forum was founded by a guy called Mark. When a lot of us were banned from another forum, I suggested we move here because at the time it was hardly used, there was only Mark and myself posting. The rest is history.

So to what forum do the members who get banned from here go?

[Uncle-AJ]

Originally Posted by Tony64

So to what forum do the members who get banned from here go?

I've no idea as I've not been banned yet.

[sensui]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Try raising a family in California on less and please report back on how "out of hand" is $15/hour.

And not sure why one should tip more at "nice places".

I live in CA and are in one of the "higher standard of living" cities. While what you say is true, I think people waitress/serving for tips at normal restaurants are usually not solely relying on that job to raise a family (if they're trying to raise a family, that's definitely just one of their jobs) or are just people without families getting by like students or single people. When you go to higher end restaurants you tend to have better service and better paid employees....hence the reason why I would pay more for a more enjoyable atmosphere with better service.

Been living in San Diego since I was 10 years old and since have also lived in San Francisco/Oakland for 10 years so I'm fairly aware of our living standards. Doesn't change the fact that increasing minimum wage like this while still following these tip standards will only increase our standard of living even more than the craziness now.

[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by bayerische

US tipping is out of hand IMHO.

I do it when I visit, but much more enjoy the free-style tipping of Europe. I leave 20-25% here too, when it has actually been great service, food, everything!

But giving 15% (as a minimum), say easily 30 dollars to a rude, poor service minded individual, who you had to ask twice for the wine list, and three times for that aperitif you ordered once you walked in 20min ago isn't what I would call "sane" practice.

I got an idea...What if US started to do what we do in Europe??? We charge about the same for the same food (at restaurants) we have included tax of 10-25% depending on member country and item, (food about 10-15%, liquor about 19-25%), we pay our waiters, cooks etc a decent wage, minimum about 10 euro/hour, so that they can feed themselves and their families from their work, which is actually appreciated work, not looked down upon.

It’s way out of hand.

I take the points that tips are not considered the same as in the rest of the world and they’re part of the wage. If that’s the case, then there’s even more of a reason that they should not be a blanket percentage. Put it this way, if the vast majority of us go to work and don’t perform, we can expect a tap on the shoulder. Carry on and we’re out on our ear hole. Fact. On that basis, paying a waiter who hasn’t done their job in an acceptable manner a 20% tip cultivates poor performance. He or she will think that they’re going to get paid irrespective so why bother doing a proper job. Just turn up and go through the motions.

I maintain my position that if the service is crap then there’s no tip coming out of my pocket. If that doesn’t sit well then too bad. If the waiter chases me down, they’ll get told. I don’t care if I’m considered a cheap ass by a stranger that I’m never likely to see me again; people who know me know better. If the service is there then it’s rewarded, if it’s not then it isn’t.

Tips, like wages, are earned. They’re not a right.

[Laszlo]

Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver

It’s way out of hand.

I take the points that tips are not considered the same as in the rest of the world and they’re part of the wage. If that’s the case, then there’s even more of a reason that they should not be a blanket percentage. Put it this way, if the vast majority of us go to work and don’t perform, we can expect a tap on the shoulder. Carry on and we’re out on our ear hole. Fact. On that basis, paying a waiter who hasn’t done their job in an acceptable manner a 20% tip cultivates poor performance. He or she will think that they’re going to get paid irrespective so why bother doing a proper job. Just turn up and go through the motions.

I maintain my position that if the service is crap then there’s no tip coming out of my pocket. If that doesn’t sit well then too bad. If the waiter chases me down, they’ll get told. I don’t care if I’m considered a cheap ass by a stranger that I’m never likely to see me again; people who know me know better. If the service is there then it’s rewarded, if it’s not then it isn’t.

Tips, like wages, are earned. They’re not a right.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you lived in NYC, you wouldn't be happy at all... your method and ideology on tipping is almost an insult at least to Americans. I wouldn't even think of tipping under 15% unless it was absolutely horrible.

[KarlS]

To be honest this is one aspect that really irritates me as I have a more European view on this. A tip is a tip. It recognizes a token of appreciation to the provider of a service which is greatly appreciated by the recipient. The intention is not to pay the persons wages! That's the responsibility of the service provider and should be built into the selling price! Imagine going to buy a pair of shoes and you have a service charge added on and different ranges of 15/18/20/25.

[Laszlo]

I think this really comes down to culture and regions and a definitive answer is mute.

[martinr]

My daughter was a waitress in a bar/restaurant and because of the way the tips were divided up she made more money than the bartender and the kitchen staff. So if you feel sorry for the poor waiters and waitresses you can stop now. Nobody has to take that job, it's a choice. When I go out to eat I never think about the financial condition of the help, it isn't my problem. To those that are saying "try raising a family in California on minimum wage" think about this, most minimum wage employees are young, single, and don't have families. If they're really good at what they do and the employer wants to keep them long term let him pay them. Why should I be guilt tripped into subsidizing their life choices.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by martinr

Nobody has to take that job, it's a choice.

To those that are saying "try raising a family in California on minimum wage" think about this, most minimum wage employees are young, single, and don't have families.

statistically you are wrong. Young people might skew the numbers that way but if you look at career minimum wage workers the numbers are not what they appear.

Secondly the argument that its a choice and they could get a better job is true in a micro sense for an individual but not a macro sense as far as a population. If 100% of the population had college degrees they would not all get good paid jobs. The bottom percentage of those highly educated people would still be cashiers, walmart greeters, and wait staff. Those jobs will always exist and whatever the skill set or education level of the population is, there will always be people pushed into those jobs.

A surprising number of people working at starbucks in Denmark for example have college degrees. They make a living wage though.

[martinr]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

statistically you are wrong.

Secondly the argument that its a choice and they could get a better job is true in a micro sense for an individual but not a macro sense as far as a population. If 100% of the population had college degrees they would not all get good paid jobs. The bottom percentage of those highly educated people would still be cashiers, walmart greeters, and wait staff. Those jobs will always exist and whatever the skill set or education level of the population is, there will always be people pushed into those jobs.

Tyler you offer no proof to back up you comment about how I'm statistically incorrect. Considering you live in London and I live in California and eat all my meals out I'm pretty sure I know more than you about the subject. But that's not the point. The point is that feeling sorry for the poor downtrodden waiter/waitress is a choice also. Let's say you live in the USA and pay income tax. And say you believe taxes on the wealthy should be higher. You pay your taxes as required but nothing is stopping you from voluntarily sending more money to the IRS. Would you do that?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by martinr

Tyler you offer no proof to back up you comment about how I'm statistically incorrect. Considering you live in London and I live in California and eat all my meals out I'm pretty sure I know more than you about the subject. But that's not the point. The point is that feeling sorry for the poor downtrodden waiter/waitress is a choice also. Let's say you live in the USA and pay income tax. And say you believe taxes on the wealthy should be higher. You pay your taxes as required but nothing is stopping you from voluntarily sending more money to the IRS. Would you do that?

Young people might skew the numbers that way but if you look at career minimum wage workers the numbers are not what they appear.

Secondly i am an American and lived in the country my entire life, in states that do not have higher minimum wages than the federal level. Thanks for being the expert though as someone who's location is London must automatically not know anything

I still have to pay US income taxes too as the US tax based on citizenship, not location. Yes, they are too low. Based on the services the govt. provides they are about right though but if they offered services like europe i would gladly pay more.

[KarlS]

Also I understand the service charge is divided amongst all the staff so how do you encourage those to do more than the bare minimum? I also dislike restaurants that seem to include the service charge with the intent to hide it so that you actually add it twice... I tend to give zero then on principle but agree it's a cultural issue

[martinr]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Young people might skew the numbers that way but if you look at career minimum wage workers the numbers are not what they appear.

Secondly i am an American and lived in the country country my entire life, in states that do not have higher minimum wages that the federal level. Thanks for being the expert though

I have no idea what you're talking about Tyler. Numbers aren't what the appear? What does that mean? You lived in states with federally mandated minimum wage law? So what. But thanks for responding to my post. I won't be responding to you any longer, you've been added to the ignore list.

[martinr]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Also I understand the service charge is divided amongst all the staff so how do you encourage those to do more than the bare minimum? I also dislike restaurants that seem to include the service charge with the intent to hide it so that you actually add it twice... I tend to give zero then on principle but agree it's a cultural issue

It's been going on for awhile now, they restaurant check will have an 18% tip or service charge added on and then a line for "additional tip". They to to explain it away as a way to spread the money around to all of the help. But you have to believe them at face value and there isn't any reason to. And your right, it encourages people to do as little as possible because they have zero incentive. Also if a normal tip is 20% and the included service charge is 18% you feel like and idiot and a cheapskate leaving an additional dollar so what they really want is more than 20% and are willing to get it by making you feel bad. Insanity.

[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by Laszlo

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you lived in NYC, you wouldn't be happy at all... your method and ideology on tipping is almost an insult at least to Americans. I wouldn't even think of tipping under 15% unless it was absolutely horrible.

Not taken the wrong way, no worries

If I lived in NYC, or any other US city, I would learn to adapt just like I have living in Asia almost five years. I’ve lived in South Africa before now, too. I’m a firm believer in ‘when in Rome’. However, as a Brit I have a British mindset, stiff upper lip and all that. A tip is a reward for service provided and I will not reward poor service.

With respect, and I mean that most sincerely, if people like yourself tip a minimum of 15% for poor service then it’s not difficult to see why a tip, irrespective of the standard of service, is almost demanded.

Look at it another way. Hypothetical situation; you and me are waiters in the same restaurant on a busy Friday night. You’re working like Billy-O, pleasant smile and a kind word for everyone including the most obnoxious, impossible guests. I’m doing sod all, rude to everyone including my colleagues, getting orders wrong, spilling wine - you get the picture. We’re both getting 20% on every bill and we both score, say, $700 in a night. How is that fair?

[brandrea]

i'd like to see wait staff and others earn a decent living. Forget about all this tipping.

I think the employer would know which staff are working hard and doing a good job and the ones that aren't would be encouraged to improve or they'd be replaced by someone else.

[daveathall]

If the service charge is added, out of principle I don't leave a tip, the service charge on the occasions I have seen it (Normally down sarf or in London)is less than I would normally leave. I am sure that the practice will make it's way to Northern England shortly. Having said that, Harvey Nicks in Leeds has it added.

[codecow]

I live in the area.

For service in general the baseline should be 20%. For truly abysmal service you need to consider if it is the server's fault. A slow kitchen can make the experience bad but that isn't the fault of the server if they keep your drink refreshed and communicate well.

Only truly abysmal service should warrant < 20% in my opinion.

Also tip:

Bellman
Valet car service $20 if downtown
Hair/nails/salon
Taxi/Uber driver
Housekeeping $20 if at Ritz Carlton, Four Seasons, Mandarin, Rosewood, Fairmont, etc... otherwise use judgement
Turn down service $10
Chefs (sushi, teppanyaki, etc... where you can interact directly) this is extra still but the real tip on the main check
Cocktails $2/drink at a bar

[Uncle-AJ]

Originally Posted by codecow

I live in the area.

For service in general the baseline should be 20%. For truly abysmal service you need to consider if it is the server's fault. A slow kitchen can make the experience bad but that isn't the fault of the server if they keep your drink refreshed and communicate well.

Only truly abysmal service should warrant < 20% in my opinion.

Also tip:

Bellman
Valet car service $20 if downtown
Hair/nails/salon
Taxi/Uber driver
Housekeeping $20 if at Ritz Carlton, Four Seasons, Mandarin, Rosewood, Fairmont, etc... otherwise use judgement
Turn down service $10
Chefs (sushi, teppanyaki, etc... where you can interact directly) this is extra still but the real tip on the main check
Cocktails $2/drink at a bar

For a Brit this is very confusing, I think I'd go somewhere else.

[codecow]

Originally Posted by Uncle-AJ

For a Brit this is very confusing, I think I'd go somewhere else.

I forgot one that is very important.

If you're at an event where you try to tip (say a hosted bar) and the server informs you they're not allowed to accept tips it can be tricky. In this case what you do is ask for a bar napkin and then place a cash tip under it and hand it back saying, "Would you please take care of this for me."

Yes it is confusing. You can get away without really tipping and if you look/act foreign then most people will probably mutter to themselves without causing a confrontation.

My suggestions are coming from someone who lives here and does repeat business with establishments. Last time I was in Europe I was acting the same and I definitely caught the dumb foreigner muttering a couple times.

[KarlS]

Someone has actually had the cheek to ask why I didn't leave a tip....I told him because I thought his service sucked ...

[kultschar]

Originally Posted by KarlS

To be honest this is one aspect that really irritates me as I have a more European view on this. A tip is a tip. It recognizes a token of appreciation to the provider of a service which is greatly appreciated by the recipient. The intention is not to pay the persons wages! That's the responsibility of the service provider and should be built into the selling price! Imagine going to buy a pair of shoes and you have a service charge added on and different ranges of 15/18/20/25.

Indeed - Ive never properly understood the whole American tipping thing.

Surely the companies should pay the full wage of the staff and tips are given for good service at the discretion of the customer.

Also whats the reason for not having Sales Tax incorporated into the item price e.g. say a pair of jeans? A few times ive forgotten and been at the checkout with the correct money in hand only to realise that Sales Tax has yet to be added. This has always puzzled but I presume there is good reason for this??

[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by Laszlo

I think this really comes down to culture and regions and a definitive answer is mute.

This I totally agree. I travel a lot for work throughout the US. I find Las Vegas and New York at the top of rudeness when it comes to service providers and they “expect” a hand out or tip at every corner no matter the level of service.
I know I am generalizing. I even find CA to be a bit devided. NorCal is more similar to NYC and SoCal seems to be more like Texas and the South. Folks are friendlier and good service earns the respect and better tip. They are also way more appreciative of that tip as they feel proud they have earned it and are not granted it by simply providing a service even if it is bad.

I personally have a huge range of tipping but 20% in SoCal seems to be the norm. I have rarely not tipped. It has to be absolutely horrible. I have tipped the total of the bill before.

Don’t even get me started about wages and dual income to live in this crap state. All I have to say if you want to make a living in KA. At a restaraunt waiting tables go get an education and get out of the business of waiting tables.

[codecow]

Originally Posted by kultschar

Indeed - Ive never properly understood the whole American tipping thing.

Surely the companies should pay the full wage of the staff and tips are given for good service at the discretion of the customer.

Also whats the reason for not having Sales Tax incorporated into the item price e.g. say a pair of jeans? A few times ive forgotten and been at the checkout with the correct money in hand only to realise that Sales Tax has yet to be added. This has always puzzled but I presume there is good reason for this??

Just guessing, but sales tax here is very local down to the city level. It can change frequently so in order to not have to re-price the entire store possibly multiple times a year they do it separately.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Someone has actually had the cheek to ask why I didn't leave a tip....I told him because I thought his service sucked ...

That should've been obvious to them

[kultschar]

Ah ok. Assumed there would be a reason!!