Need advice - buyer claims watch received fake

[jrs146]

Man I've always feared this anytime I sell anything on eBay or take PayPal anywhere for that matter. Best of luck and hoping you get a positive outcome.


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[jstevens43]

Sorry to hear, seems like your in a sticky situation. No matter what you should fight him back, letting him just do whatever he wants gives ebay more reason to think that sellers are the only scammers when in fact it can be the buyer as well (your case).

[socalwatchcollector]

Originally Posted by cajunron

Good luck Henry. I know you have been here for many years and know you have an outstanding reputation. I can vouch for that. Maybe Paypal will view this thread and let it be confirmation of your character.

Paypal doesn't care unfortunately. They are trained robots from my many experiences with them both as a a business and regular user.

[bdex75]

Don't we have a bunch of TRF members in Oz? Surely someone lives /works close and may know this clown. It will be interesting to see what he ships back to you. I have not seen a fake BB but then again I haven't looked that hard.


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[roach7]

If PayPal does really side with this clown then it will force me to explore local options and offer a reward for the return of my watch/money

Thanks!

[ZOOK]

Does anyone know if you can ship a watch to an RSC in another country for an appraisal and then have them release it to someone local? That might work for someone using ebay and Paypal in the future for international sales.

Also, say in your auction that you will not ship directly to an international buyer, the watch must be shipped to a middleman (new cottage industry here at TRF), who will confirm the validity of the watch before passing on the buyer. This should at least deter a scammer from bidding on your watch.

[bdex75]

Originally Posted by bdex75

Don't we have a bunch of TRF members in Oz? Surely someone lives /works close and may know this clown. It will be interesting to see what he ships back to you. I have not seen a fake BB but then again I haven't looked that hard.


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The last sentence of the above is unfortunately not true. Did a google search. 1:1 replicas of every Tudor sport model and a ton of vintage Tudor subs. $300 take you all the way. Hopefully he just sends your watch back and you can get on with it.


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[blah114]

I wish you well and my heart goes out to you, the watch seller. It’s quite obvious the buyer has done this before, even had the msg drafted , possibly from past. Not sure of timeline, but Rolex service centers normally take months to review a watch. A dealer would do this in seconds.. but not the rsc, based on my limited expierieces.

[Canook]

Sadly i got done by this about 3 years ago by a buyer in melbourne except he claimed the box was empty.......... weeks and weeks of disputes and arguing with Paypal,Ebay etc... and they sided with him with NO evidence just his word......
Needless to say i was devastated and also down a Oris Carlos Coste TT diver watch........ was so tempted to get on a plane and march into his place of work where i could almost guarantee he was wearing it...
That was the last time i used ebay and at this stage will stay that way

[locutus49]

I got scammed selling a high end pocket knife on the knife forum. Now I am ultra-careful. Best of luck, OP.

[blacklotus99]

Originally Posted by roach7

If PayPal does really side with this clown then it will force me to explore local options and offer a reward for the return of my watch/money

Thanks!

Just as an FYI, I called the RSC in Melbourne (my local) to see if they offer an authentication service. The answer is not as such. I was told that if I brought my watch in one of the watchmakers could give it a visual inspection but would not remove the caseback, and then provide a verbal opinion as to whether or not they believe it to be authentic. They will not provide written evidence of authenticity in this fashion. The only way to have the authenticity documented by them would be to submit it for a regular service, which needs to be booked in of course with the appropriate wait time. If it then turned out to be fake then RSC of course would not service it.

Someone also asked if RSC would keep/destroy it if it was fake. I don't believe that would be legal here. What they could do is report it/hand it over to the police who could then potentially charge the owner with receiving stolen or counterfeit goods. The chance of the police pursuing this course of action over one watch is slim, but once police have possession of a counterfeit item then thats pretty much the end of the story. RSC themselves have no authority to confiscate property under any circumstance (that would be theft), only law enforcement can do that.

Also, for the benefit of the OP, in one of the nearby suburbs to the buyer is the largest Hells Angels clubhouse in the state. Not that I would know anything about any of that.

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by socalwatchcollector

Paypal doesn't care unfortunately. They are trained robots from my many experiences with them both as a a business and regular user.

Didn't change. I had an issue with a seller who got a product, used it for a while and returned it damaged after saying it did not match the description. He got a full refund and I lost only 50% of the amount because my PayPay account didn't have enough at the time.
After trying to contact PP many times and receiving only FAQs and canned answers, I gave up. There are no humans there.

That was the last time I sold anything on PP. Closed the account. It's good for buyers since they always side with them, but bad for sellers.

[alexthegreat123]

File police report with your local police too and present it to Paypal. Could be huge help. Sorry to hear, best of luck

[Pix]

If Paypal does not go your way, can you then claim the watch as stolen or lost to Rolex, so that if it ever goes thru the registry there will be a record of it?

[yxc145]

Originally Posted by Pix

If Paypal does not go your way, can you then claim the watch as stolen or lost to Rolex, so that if it ever goes thru the registry there will be a record of it?

I am sure the OP can do that since he is the rightful owner of the watch. But it may take years before that watch shows up in a RSC. That's if the scammer/new owner is dumb enough to take it to RSC for service.

[116710er]

So many perils with online sales. Although I rarely sell things on forums, when I do sell on forums, I much prefer to sell to a known/established buyer. I'll even take a hit on the selling price to sell to a known/established buyer.

Originally Posted by michaelodonnell123

...The truth is a terrible defense.

That's sounds like something a lawyer would say...lol

[j0oftheworld]

So what would be a safe way going forward for someone to box up and sell a watch considering it will have serial numbers on everything?

[breitlings]

I think the serial numbers are important here. If you have an AD bill with serial number and he sends you back a fake with a different serial number, you should be able to show the serials are different.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by locutus49

I got scammed selling a high end pocket knife on the knife forum. Now I am ultra-careful. Best of luck, OP.

Sorry to hear... I lost an AP because a dealer was servicing the watch, never sent it back and went out of business.

Would you mind detailing perhaps in pm so I know what to look out for.

[roach7]

Originally Posted by breitlings

I think the serial numbers are important here. If you have an AD bill with serial number and he sends you back a fake with a different serial number, you should be able to show the serials are different.

The scammer is smart; when he filed the claim he states that the serial number of the watch does not match the serial number on the card. So if he's forced to return the watch to me he's simply going to mail me the fake one which then I would've lost my money and got a fake watch back instead

[watchluvr]

I would call the police or federal agents in both jurisdictions. Make a report to the police.

[yxc145]

Originally Posted by roach7

The scammer is smart; when he filed the claim he states that the serial number of the watch does not match the serial number on the card. So if he's forced to return the watch to me he's simply going to mail me the fake one which then I would've lost my money and got a fake watch back instead

Exactly. That's why I think there should be some type of service (like Notary public) for online selling/purchasing. A 3rd party can witness, verify, even package the sold item for a small fee to prevent something like this from happening. i think that's a good business idea.

[roach7]

Originally Posted by yxc145

Exactly. That's why I think there should be some type of service (like Notary public) for online selling/purchasing. A 3rd party can witness, verify, even package the sold item for a small fee to prevent something like this from happening. i think that's a good business idea.

If the carrier offered such videotaped packing service I'll be the first in line to use it...

[cornerstore]

Originally Posted by alexthegreat123

File police report with your local police too and present it to Paypal. Could be huge help. Sorry to hear, best of luck

I had an EBay buyer scam me in the past. I sold him an authentic Rolex pen, the day after he received the Rolex pen he sent me some Bic pens marked for customs as a "gift" and used that tracking number as his proof of return. He never communicated with me and waited till the last moment to file a claim. When informed by PayPal of this claw back I filed a fraud complaint with my local police,asked the Police to send a copy to the Police in his jurisdiction and I told PayPal I will be suing them and the person involved to recoup your losses. After I sent PayPal my Police file number I got my seized money back less the cost of the original shipping. Out a few bucks but got the majority of my sale proceeds returned. Good luck.

[ZOOK]

Originally Posted by roach7

If the carrier offered such videotaped packing service I'll be the first in line to use it...

Have you checked with any ADs near you? I've read posts here where buyers have received watches purchased from a trusted seller that were shipped by an AD. The trusted seller may be using the AD to provide proof of product shipped from a third party in case of issue like you are having.

[yxc145]

In the future, whenever i sell something a little more valuable. I will informed the buyer that the item will be tested, verified, and packaged in front of a UPS or FEDEX clerk with video taped. That may deter the scammer from going through with it.

[forgedblades]

Believe me this is indeed and scam and your watch is gone. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but this is the fact. I have been through almost the same situation. No matter what you have to prove your point, paypal WILL side with the buyer. EVERYTIME or at least 99.9% of the time. They will freeze your funds and account and will not release it until they get "their" money back. I was bilked out of not only a watch but my funds that they froze and took. Paypal offers the buyer protection but also provides scammers a haven. Granted they can not do it muti times but once is enough and if they have muti accounts the cash could add up quickly. Wire only period.
Hope you beat the odds!
ALso I had video of me packing the watch, applying the shipping label and handing to UPS guy. did not help and will not help. Do not waste your time with paypal. IN the end you will be burned

[mfletch]

Originally Posted by roach7

The scammer is smart; when he filed the claim he states that the serial number of the watch does not match the serial number on the card. So if he's forced to return the watch to me he's simply going to mail me the fake one which then I would've lost my money and got a fake watch back instead

What a nightmare. I've never dealt with a situation this bad from an online sale, but I'd agree with those advising you to file reports with the proper authorities as soon as possible. If you were to sit back and see how it turns out , it won't be favorable for you.

[CorradoBrit]

The scammers history with Paypal should count for something. If he has no track record of long term use buying and selling through that platform, that will surely count against him. If he's a new user that would raise red flags. Hoping you get this resolved ASAP. And as everyone else has said be proactive. Get police report numbers in your home country and in Aus.

[roach7]

As expected, robot PayPal is allowing the scammer to return the "fake" watch to me

We've determined that your buyer should receive a refund, once we have confirmed that the merchandise has been returned to you. The merchandise should be in the same condition as when your buyer received it.

Please do not reply to this email. To get in touch with us, click Help & Contact.

What to Do Next

We will provide the online shipment tracking information to you, once we receive it from your buyer. You can confirm receipt of the returned merchandise in the Resolution Center. If we don't hear from you, we’ll confirm the delivery using your buyer’s tracking information.

Once we have confirmed that you received the merchandise, we'll debit the refund amount from your PayPal account. If this refund makes your balance negative, please log in to your PayPal account and add money to your balance.

To learn how we review and resolve claims, you can view the PayPal User Agreement, which you accepted when you created your PayPal account. Simply click Legal at the bottom of any PayPal page.

Please note: Records of all claims are kept in the Resolution Center for your convenience.

Sincerely,

PayPal