Why isn't the GMT also known as "The Moon watch"

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Corsair66

True as far as NASA EVA certification, though not with respect to the particular photo referenced. That image is of Buzz Aldrin during Gemini XII, not Ed White during Gemini IV.

the astronauts were fairly flashy and liked to match.They all had corvettes and GMT's, so what. Im sure the next thing we will here is some sort of justification as to why the corvette should be affiliated with the space program as the unofficial lunar rover. I wonder if they submitted to NASA testing and failed too.

They all liked the same cars and watches and personally owned them.

[Corsair66]

The linked piece is so poorly written and rife with factual errors that it wasn't worth my time to write a point-by-point correction. Suffice it to say, as others have already done, that the Omega Speedmaster Professional is the only wristwatch tested and certified by NASA for EVA and supplied to the astronaut corps for that purpose.

Other than Dave Scott's personally owned Bulova Chronograph, the Speedmaster is the only watch worn during lunar EVA activity. Several Rolex GMTs made it to the lunar surface, but never left the LM. I'd be interested to learn how they fared over multiple depress/repress cycles, but don't believe that they were ever tested following return to Earth and have, in any case, never seen a report detailing such testing.

Anyone with a sincere interest in the history of our manned space program is likely already acquainted with the far better sources available to them these days than the article in question. Anyone new to the subject matter, but curious to delve more deeply into it are welcome to PM me for a few specific references to get you started.

[cht]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

Only one watch passed the selection process to become the approved watch for space travel; it wasn't the Rolex.

Originally Posted by Watchgeek5000

The attached artical touches on that subject.
The Omega Speedmaster Chronograph was fitted on a velcro NASA Spec Black Nylon Strap. The Rolex GMT was worn under the space suit. The Rolex also could have been fitted to a Velcro strap as well if needed.

Worn UNDER the space suit!
I could put on a $4 Shrek watch from McDonald's happy meal and wear it on a submarine that goes to down a 100 meters and call it a Submariner?

Originally Posted by JohnLT

It’s all omega has. Let them have it. LOL.

Typical Rolex ignorant snobbery that gives way to all the negative stereotypes of Rolex wearers, thanks.

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

And the first dive watch: http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/blogomegamarine.php

Thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by Tony64

The waitlist for the stainless Daytona was already several years long, and NASA hadn't established a sufficient purchase history with their AD.

They were offered two-tone or all gold versions but the added weight was prohibitive.

True story...... or not.

You know, this is the MOST believable alternative theory I've read!

Originally Posted by Corsair66

The linked piece is so poorly written and rife with factual errors that it wasn't worth my time to write a point-by-point correction. Suffice it to say, as others have already done, that the Omega Speedmaster Professional is the only wristwatch tested and certified by NASA for EVA and supplied to the astronaut corps for that purpose.

Other than Dave Scott's personally owned Bulova Chronograph, the Speedmaster is the only watch worn during lunar EVA activity. Several Rolex GMTs made it to the lunar surface, but never left the LM. I'd be interested to learn how they fared over multiple depress/repress cycles, but don't believe that they were ever tested following return to Earth and have, in any case, never seen a report detailing such testing.

Thanks for sharing.

Agree, it's important to mention the watch as we know, was not exposed to space.

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by Muzz

Because it is auto so that pretty much killed the deal there.

Yes this is true but it's also manual wind. It's also fairly water proof in comparison to the Speedmaster.

Originally Posted by cht

...

Worn UNDER the space suit!
I could put on a $4 Shrek watch from McDonald's happy meal and wear it on a submarine that goes to down a 100 meters and call it a Submariner?



...

Thanks for sharing.

Agree, it's important to mention the watch as we know, was not exposed to space.

I'm confused; did you misread my post?

Although a bit light this article is interesting...

http://www.uniquewatchguide.com/space-watches.html

Also the A Blog to Watch article is good.

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/omega-s...ch-space-race/

[carloman]

Originally Posted by mschafer

Maybe the next generation GMT could qualify for the upcoming shenanigans on Mars...

I can't wait to see that movie!

:)

[Wcdhtwn]

Originally Posted by meganfox17

I'm sorry Sir but I have to completely disagree with your reasonings, assumptions and presumptions.You have to spend time on the Omega forum to get the facts straight from the people and engineers who use to work for NASA back in the 60s and 70s. There was ABSOLUTELY NO COMPROMISE NO COST SAVING MEASURES by NASA in the entire space programme period in the Sixties.

✓ The Moonwatch passed all the tests with flying colours. Pure and Simple
✓ The Moonwatch is still the only watch certified and approved by NASA for EVA ( Extra Vehicular Activity).The photo of Ed White wearing the Moonwatch during the his space walk outside Gemini IV says it all. Period. No cost cutting bullshit here !
✓ It was assassinated President John Fitzgerald Kennedy's promise to put a man on the moon before the decade was over.
The US space expenditure in 1962 was 5.4 billion US dollars, a staggering amount which translated to 50 cents a week for every man, woman and child in America at that time.
✓ The Great Space Race between the Americans and the Soviet Union during the height of the Cold War. NASA had to get their watches right. I'm sorry to disappoint you but the primitive humble Lemania based mechanical hand winding chronograph beat all the odds and the other automatic watches to become the Moonwatch
✓Budget cuts and cost saving measures came much later after the Apollo XVII mission in 1972 due to public and political pressure towards the end of the Vietnam war and after the Americans had won the race to put the first man on the moon !

Have you ever tried to sell anything to the US Government? I have. You have to guarantee the get a better price than any of your other customers. If they find out you sold to someone else for less they come back and demand a refund that makes their price lower. There is a long established history of this requirement. That doesn’t mean cutbacks or extreme cost savings measures, it’s how they operate all the time.

I’ve seen the government choose inferior products, mostly in the IT space, because a company was willing to give a huge discount and be the lowest price. Prices that didn’t make financial sense for them. Heard about how far behind modern technology the US Gov’t is? This is a large part why.

I owned Omega long before Rolex and think they are excellent. I never said Omega cheapened the product, didn’t pass the NASA tests.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wcdhtwn]

Originally Posted by Andrés G

Wow! I hope you’re joking.

Well, I’m not making an accusation or claiming this is the case. It’s just a thought I had. The US gov’t has lots of $$ but is extremely cheap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sensui]

Originally Posted by Wcdhtwn

Have you ever tried to sell anything to the US Government? I have. You have to guarantee the get a better price than any of your other customers. If they find out you sold to someone else for less they come back and demand a refund that makes their price lower. There is a long established history of this requirement. That doesn’t mean cutbacks or extreme cost savings measures, it’s how they operate all the time.

I’ve seen the government choose inferior products, mostly in the IT space, because a company was willing to give a huge discount and be the lowest price. Prices that didn’t make financial sense for them. Heard about how far behind modern technology the US Gov’t is? This is a large part why.

I owned Omega long before Rolex and think they are excellent. I never said Omega cheapened the product, didn’t pass the NASA tests.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just FYI, this depends heavily on the product you're providing uncle Sam. I know many contractors/subcontractors for aerospace/military that the US can't throw enough money at without blinking an eye right now. Back in those days, having the Russians in space while we're Earthbound...space travel was top priority and NASA had top dollar funding.

[Wcdhtwn]

Originally Posted by sensui

Just FYI, this depends heavily on the product you're providing uncle Sam. I know many contractors/subcontractors for aerospace/military that the US can't throw enough money at without blinking an eye right now. Back in those days, having the Russians in space while we're Earthbound...space travel was top priority and NASA had top dollar funding.

Sure, but the rules of engagement don’t change. The USG expects “most favored nation” pricing and it’s in all their procurement requirements. These contractors might be getting money thrown at them but at a rate that’s lower than they might earn elsewhere. This isn’t about budget cutbacks or areas of high vs. low priority. Look at how Trump insisted on lowering the price of Air Force One and the new fighter jets. A ton of money is being thrown at these projects BUT at lower prices than initially negotiated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by Wcdhtwn

Sure, but the rules of engagement don’t change. The USG expects “most favored nation” pricing and it’s in all their procurement requirements. These contractors might be getting money thrown at them but at a rate that’s lower than they might earn elsewhere. This isn’t about budget cutbacks or areas of high vs. low priority. Look at how Trump insisted on lowering the price of Air Force One and the new fighter jets. A ton of money is being thrown at these projects BUT at lower prices than initially negotiated.

The ROE of procurement and contractor/supplier selection for NASA/USG during the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo programs were indeed a thing unto itself, not the norm as found elsewhere in the U.S. government (including the military), and there are tons of congressional records, studies, investigations, etc. available for anyone to read on the matter. Not only did process differ drastically to the standard template of what anyone experiences now half a century later, but differed to what was the normal procurement process then, and before then, as well.

Also, there wasn't a standard process during the 10-15 years of those programs either, it evolved and changed as research and engineering needs, timetables, and personnel projections changed. Many times highest-bid contractors were selected, and based not simply for technological or engineering prowess and capacity, but managerial reasons where shortcomings in this area could directly affect and hamstring procurement caused by a failure of the contractor/sub contractors to adapt.

The idea the Speedmaster was selected because Omega was "the lowest bidder" that merely matched a watch to the requirements is a non-starter. There would be no need for establishing various tests based on what was to be expected during missions, and then publishing the results of those tests for each of the manufacturers' submitted models.

Imagine trying to justify selecting/procuring an item of the Gemini/Apollo astronaut corps issued-gear during the full-blown space race based on saving, day, $50 bucks per copy if it had a higher failure rate than another during the testing phase.

Just like the suggestion (repeated by Jake, not you) that it was some smoke-filled, back room deal where money (criminally) changed hands under the table between someone in NASA and Omega that somehow robbed Rolex's rightful destiny, the "lowest bidder" angle also didn't happen.

[JohnLT]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

And the first dive watch: http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/blogomegamarine.php

Right but its not their claim to fame. My "LOL" was to add levity.

Originally Posted by cht

Typical Rolex ignorant snobbery that gives way to all the negative stereotypes of Rolex wearers, thanks.

Oh please. You take this way to serious. Lighten up.

[RichardF]

I think the point most are trying to make concerning the Rolex GMT Master being NASA flown is:
Even under a suit a watch still has to stand up to the same g force and vibrations as a Speedmaster not to mention fully function in weightlessness and a pressurized cabin/suit. Apparently the Rolex GMT passed all of this with flying colors. It stands to reason the quality and build of this watch would have also allowed it to function fine outside of the suit with no issues. I agree the Speedmaster was the “moon watch” and has a definite purpose and need by NASA. But the GMT obviously has proven to be an excellent watch chosen by NASA astronauts. This personal mission watch was proven to be fully capable of functioning on all missions and the conditions they exposed it to. I believe the Rolex GMT has also earned a foot note in history for this.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by RichardF

I think the point most are trying to make concerning the Rolex GMT Master being NASA flown is:
Even under a suit a watch still has to stand up to the same g force and vibrations as a Speedmaster not to mention fully function in weightlessness and a pressurized cabin/suit. Apparently the Rolex GMT passed all of this with flying colors. It stands to reason the quality and build of this watch would have also allowed it to function fine outside of the suit with no issues. I agree the Speedmaster was the “moon watch” and has a definite purpose and need by NASA. But the GMT obviously has proven to be an excellent watch chosen by NASA astronauts. This personal mission watch was proven to be fully capable of functioning on all missions and the conditions they exposed it to. I believe the Rolex GMT has also earned a foot note in history for this.

Thats like saying if some soldier had a Rolex on during the invasion of France during WWII then it was somehow affiliated with D-Day. Wearing a personal watch doesnt affiliate it in any way with the event and because it was not issued officially so it doesnt matter. There is only one moon watch and Omega earned that distinction. Im sure the astronauts brought a few other personal items into space with them besides watches but they are not relevant.

[shoota70]

....can we stop with the Auto won't wind in space.

It has nothing to do with gravity - it is entirely inertia.

[hulkalicious]

Originally Posted by Leejjay

Possibly because the name The Moon Watch is used by Omega as they were there 1st. 1969 if I’m correct?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Correct. However Omega decided to ruin that by creating a new moonwatch for every bl**dy launch since which kinda spoils it imo. You can choose the buy the original Heslite moonwatch which is like a plastic screen they actually used or the same but with standard Crystal. The Heslite version is extremely light so much so it didn't work for me.

[meganfox17]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Wearing a personal watch doesnt affiliate it in any way with the event and because it was not issued officially so it doesnt matter.There is only one moon watch and Omega earned that distinction. Im sure the astronauts brought a few other personal items into space with them besides watches but they are not relevant.

I'll just like to add some interesting tidbits to the discussion.My colleague, Dr Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor, the first Malaysian cosmonaut in Space who travel on board the Soyuz TMA-11 and spent time on the ISS was allowed to bring a couple of personal watches with him that included his favourite Rolex SubDate.His standard issue and backup watches were of course the Speedmaster Pro and the Speedmaster X-33. On board the ISS during the entire 11 days, he wore his Sub, sometimes wearing 2 watches (+ X-33) while conducting experiments. FYI , the Speedmaster Pro and the Speedmaster X-33 are also adopted by the Russian Federal Space Agency as standard issue watches for Soyuz crew members and cosmonauts during EVA at ISS
Here's a reminder on the Moonwatch at present day
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...durance-record

[DLRIDES]

The Speedmaster is THE moon watch .....................but Rolex did make the Space-Dweller ! Which recognized the Mercury program.

[DLRIDES]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SlowhandBuzz]

I still need to figure out what brand of golf ball Al hit on the moon. Best 8 iron around.

[meganfox17]

Originally Posted by SlowhandBuzz

I still need to figure out what brand of golf ball Al hit on the moon. Best 8 iron around.

https://goldinauctions.com/mobile/lo...t_man_to_golf_

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.uni...ey-museum/amp/That's a beautiful patina on the tritium dial...

[jets]

Originally Posted by Tony64

The waitlist for the stainless Daytona was already several years long, and NASA hadn't established a sufficient purchase history with their AD.

They were offered two-tone or all gold versions but the added weight was prohibitive.

True story...... or not.

This HA

[chrito]

Originally Posted by Leejjay

Possibly because the name The Moon Watch is used by Omega as they were there 1st. 1969 if I’m correct?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yes you are

[polowatch]

the name moon watch is already associated with omega.

[Scholar]

What everyone seems to be overlooking is that NASA specifically needed a chronograph.

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by Leejjay

Possibly because the name The Moon Watch is used by Omega as they were there 1st. 1969 if I’m correct?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To be specific it was 7/20/69. I remember it well because it was my mother's birthday. We talked on the phone as I was up in Maine at camp. Everyone was tuned in to the unfolding events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11

[meganfox17]

Originally Posted by Scholar

What everyone seems to be overlooking is that NASA specifically needed a chronograph.

In 1964, NASA Engineer James Jim Ragan and his team sent out a letter and Request For Proposal to each of the different 10 watch brands asking them to submit their watches which had chronograph functions and qualities specified in the letter. Incredibly only 4 brands replied back to NASA : Omega USA replied, Longines-Wittnauer USA replied, Rolex USA replied, Hamilton replied but instead of a wristwatch, Hamilton proposed a marine chronometer pocket watch !

Omega provided the Speedmaster Lemania based Cal 321, Longines- Wittnaeur submitted the Valjoux 72 based chronograph and Rolex offered a Non Daytona Chronograph model also powered by a Valjoux 72 .At the end Jim Ragan purchased 3 SpeedMasters Ref 105.003 , 3 Longines Chronographs and 3 Rolex Chronographs for testings. The Speedy survived Jim Ragan's crazy testings AND unanimously preferred by the astronauts in their own personal evaluation partly because it was easy to operate the Speedy with the gloves on.

Below is the Rolex reply letter to NASA. Some key words are deliberately omitted

[chrito]

Originally Posted by omx5o

No prizes for coming second.

lol

[Leejjay]

Originally Posted by meganfox17

In 1964, NASA Engineer James Jim Ragan and his team sent out a letter and Request For Proposal to each of the different 10 watch brands asking them to submit their watches which had chronograph functions and qualities specified in the letter. Incredibly only 4 brands replied back to NASA : Omega USA replied, Longines-Wittnauer USA replied, Rolex USA replied, Hamilton replied but instead of a wristwatch, Hamilton proposed a marine chronometer pocket watch !

Omega provided the Speedmaster Lemania based Cal 321, Longines- Wittnaeur submitted the Valjoux 72 based chronograph and Rolex offered a Non Daytona Chronograph model also powered by a Valjoux 72 .At the end Jim Ragan purchased 3 SpeedMasters Ref 105.003 , 3 Longines Chronographs and 3 Rolex Chronographs for testings. The Speedy survived Jim Ragan's crazy testings AND unanimously preferred by the astronauts in their own personal evaluation partly because it was easy to operate the Speedy with the gloves on.

Below is the Rolex reply letter to NASA. Some key words are deliberately omitted

The delivery time then is a lot better than now!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rusty427]

I heard Rolex didn't send their watch because they knew the moon landing was being faked by Stanley Kubrick at an undisclosed studio.
Rolex don't do fakes! xD

[japenney]

because NASA picked the speedmaster to be the only watch that passed its rigorous testing to go into space? I mean i didn't read the whole thread but I am fairly sure that is why lol.