PAM 911 - "the last one" - Bonati's farewell

[vivicorsi]

so this was one of the emails i send them
you can clearly see that they did not answer quickly without double checking.

clearly you cannot jump to conclusions from a photo made in bad lightning or worse with a flash! every green will than look alike.
the same goes for photos that look differnt to be fair
thats why i wrote to panerai

there are plenty of posts out there claiming they look the same ,and plenty claiming they look different.


but than who do we trust?

i do trust the official panerai statment.

[vivicorsi]

[vivicorsi]

again i have really looked deep into this before posting my conclusion. compared all the photos i could get.

i decided for myself that i do no rely soley on the photos nor on people statments

thats why i finally decided to contact Panerai headquaters. and clearly they made the effort to look into this topic.
i do believe them

[erik asher]

Look my friend, I am not going to excoriate you on this forum...I remember what it was like to be new and enthusiastic on these sites and it’s great you have the passion for there 911...like I have said, it’s a beauty...

But let’s take the emotion out of this for a minute...in your initial post, you romantised both Bonati and the 911...the simple truth is that it was a nice tribute watch that Bonati approved on his way out, conceived in singapore (I believe) by some very influential Ristis who met with Bonati after his announcement. A number of us on this forum have met Bonati, and you would see that it was doubtful that he would direct the design of an entirely new dial colour for a Paneristi tribute watch. He did a nice thing by authorizing its creation, but he had more things to occupy his final days then getting involved with a whole new dial colour—something that is not as simple as you think and requires approvals up the chain—he doesn’t just snap his fingers or clap his hands and things happen...I think you are innocently romanticising his thought process—you are hoping and wishing that he out the thought or creativity in the project that you have created IN YOUR OWN MIND. The truth is you have absolutely no insight into his thought process yet you incredibly claim that you are his spokesperson when it comes to the 911. You aren’t. You are a lucky Paneristi who can wear it on your wrist. It’s not a unique edition timepiece with characteristics solely unique to this PAM. Sorry, it’s just not, whether you like it or not.

[The OG Beef]

At the end of day who really cares if they’re identical or ever so slightly different? It’s a great looking watch either way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[erik asher]

Originally Posted by The OG Beef

At the end of day who really cares if they’re identical or ever so slightly different? It’s a great looking watch either way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The person who cares is the one doing research into whether or not to buy a PAM 911 in the secondhand market. If they falsely believe that it’s a Unique edition dial that hasn’t been used for any other models, they may make a decision to buy based on that as a factor. Beef, you know that the devil is in the detail and we all make buying decisions based on micro nuances that others would think we were mad for making the distinction. Look at the differences between the 249 and 448 and how you can go around in circles trying to decide. But it’s the nuances that make the difference.

This gentleman is creating a nuance that doesn’t exist and I am merely pointing that out.

[vivicorsi]

Originally Posted by erik asher

Look my friend, I am not going to excoriate you on this forum...I remember what it was like to be new and enthusiastic on these sites and it’s great you have the passion for there 911...like I have said, it’s a beauty...

But let’s take the emotion out of this for a minute...in your initial post, you romantised both Bonati and the 911...the simple truth is that it was a nice tribute watch that Bonati approved on his way out, conceived in singapore (I believe) by some very influential Ristis who met with Bonati after his announcement. A number of us on this forum have met Bonati, and you would see that it was doubtful that he would direct the design of an entirely new dial colour for a Paneristi tribute watch. He did a nice thing by authorizing its creation, but he had more things to occupy his final days then getting involved with a whole new dial colour—something that is not as simple as you think and requires approvals up the chain—he doesn’t just snap his fingers or clap his hands and things happen...I think you are innocently romanticising his thought process—you are hoping and wishing that he out the thought or creativity in the project that you have created IN YOUR OWN MIND. The truth is you have absolutely no insight into his thought process yet you incredibly claim that you are his spokesperson when it comes to the 911. You aren’t. You are a lucky Paneristi who can wear it on your wrist. It’s not a unique edition timepiece with characteristics solely unique to this PAM. Sorry, it’s just not, whether you like it or not.

well sorry to inform you that Panerai headquaters don't agree with what you write.
and that my friend is a fact. whether you have been a paneristi for 20 ,30 years or whatever. Panerai's official statment is clear. you can read trough their email again . whether you like it or not.

[The OG Beef]

Originally Posted by erik asher

The person who cares is the one doing research into whether or not to buy a PAM 911 in the secondhand market. If they falsely believe that it’s a Unique edition dial that hasn’t been used for any other models, they may make a decision to buy based on that as a factor. Beef, you know that the devil is in the detail and we all make buying decisions based on micro nuances that others would think we were mad for making the distinction. Look at the differences between the 249 and 448 and how you can go around in circles trying to decide. But it’s the nuances that make the difference.

This gentleman is creating a nuance that doesn’t exist and I am merely pointing that out.

That’s a fact, we’re a crazy lot. Not arguing with either of you as I don’t know the truth for certainty. My gut says they’re the same or close enough to not merit a distinction. On the several occasions I’ve seen a 911 with another GD they certainly looked the same. If you love it, buy it. If you don’t, make the pass.


Sent from Beef’s iPad using Tapatalk

[erik asher]

Originally Posted by vivicorsi

well sorry to inform you that Panerai headquaters don't agree with what you write.
and that my friend is a fact. whether you have been a paneristi for 20 ,30 years or whatever. Panerai's official statment is clear. you can read trough their email again . whether you like it or not.

Since when did London become the headquarters for Panerai and since when did this gentleman become the spokesperson for OP? Did you ever have a policeman give you wrong directions, or an airline agent tell you wrong information while waiting for a delayed flight? Case closed.

[erik asher]

Originally Posted by The OG Beef

That’s a fact, we’re a crazy lot. Not arguing with either of you as I don’t know the truth for certainty. My gut says they’re the same or close enough to not merit a distinction. On the several occasions I’ve seen a 911 with another GD they certainly looked the same. If you love it, buy it. If you don’t, make the pass.


Sent from Beef’s iPad using Tapatalk

Beef you know too well that “if you love it, but it, if you don’t, pass” is trite...we all pour over the details, facts and nuances...I KNOW you do...so others should have a chance to know the correct facts and then buy it if they love it...

Interestingly, a lot of people bought the 911 for the wrong reasons in any event...so the readers of the forums should at least know the facts...good entertainment for a Saturday...hope you guys are doing well...

[vivicorsi]

Originally Posted by erik asher

Since when did London become the headquarters for Panerai and since when did this gentleman become the spokesperson for OP? Did you ever have a policeman give you wrong directions, or an airline agent tell you wrong information while waiting for a delayed flight? Case closed.

erik you do want to be right but you simply are not

as i told you before, and if you would read carefully ,you would know that i have written to panerai headquaters.
and please be so kind to read the above email i forwarded

it says:" we forwarded the email to the production departement....

if you want i can post all the emails here, i do not have a problem with that, but you just talk without providing any prove. all we have is you saying you are the great well known paneristi.

you do not want to give us your secret panerai source
you do not want to show as araz post
you do not accept an official email by panerai, claiming you do know better than them...

all i say is that i do believe them.

[erik asher]

a

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by The OG Beef

At the end of day who really cares if they’re identical or ever so slightly different? It’s a great looking watch either way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

x2

In to be honest, in vivicorsi’s photos above, they look identical to me.

I just take it all with a grain of salt. People just enjoying the watch hobby.

And I hope this wasn’t all done in a lame attempt to create internet hype before selling a watch, but I’m not one to believe in conspiracies. I mean, it’s not very hard to type things out and “sign” it “Panerai headquarters”. Or maybe Panerai really did, for once, send a long email after extensive internal research. ;-)

[erik asher]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

x2

In to be honest, in vivicorsi’s photos above, they look identical to me.

I just take it all with a grain of salt. People just enjoying the watch hobby.

And I hope this wasn’t all done in a lame attempt to create internet hype before selling a watch, but I’m not one to believe in conspiracies. I mean, it’s not very hard to type things out and “sign” it “Panerai headquarters”. Or maybe Panerai really did, for once, send a long email after extensive internal research. ;-)

It’s interesting that you say that, Cru! I originally typed out a response that made that exact implication, especially after I saw that he is looking to sell his 911 in other forums...I then deleted it as I did not want to sound accusatory or provocative...this is exactly why I want to point out that misinformation (either intentional or unintentional as I give him benefit of the doubt) can lead to a person making buying decisions based on a false narrative or set of facts...and I don’t want to see that happen to anyone...

[vivicorsi]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

x2

In to be honest, in vivicorsi’s photos above, they look identical to me.

I just take it all with a grain of salt. People just enjoying the watch hobby.

And I hope this wasn’t all done in a lame attempt to create internet hype before selling a watch, but I’m not one to believe in conspiracies. I mean, it’s not very hard to type things out and “sign” it “Panerai headquarters”. Or maybe Panerai really did, for once, send a long email after extensive internal research. ;-)

Go phone nuno if you don’t believe me. Your suggestion that I am a liar is really despicable.

[vivicorsi]

Originally Posted by erik asher

It’s interesting that you say that, Cru! I originally typed out a response that made that exact implication, especially after I saw that he is looking to sell his 911 in other forums...I then deleted it as I did not want to sound accusatory or provocative...this is exactly why I want to point out that misinformation (either intentional or unintentional as I give him benefit of the doubt) can lead to a person making buying decisions based on a false narrative or set of facts...and I don’t want to see that happen to anyone...

Well basically Eric you are misinforming people here pretending you know better than Panerai themselves. That’s the real problem with you. You don’t deliver any proof, but say that Panerai is wrong and don’t know their own watch. This is just ridiculous. You are a real unpleasant guy.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by vivicorsi

Go phone nuno if you don’t believe me. Your suggestion that I am a liar is really despicable.

Sorry, didn’t mean to offend. Good luck with your sale and I hope you get the price you’re looking for.

[vivicorsi]

Eric why is it so difficult for you to deliver proof of your claims?
It would be interesting for all of us.
Have your friend who apparently has both make a video under natural lighting conditions and post it in hd. Or does this friend not exist?
Post Araz post here.


I will then forward it to Nuno and ask him for an answer.
I am very transparent about everything i posted here. Shame that i put all this work into this just to have people like you react this way.

I doubt that Panerai would write me 3 emails till they find the guy who knows just to than have him lie to me.

[erik asher]

Originally Posted by vivicorsi

Eric why is it so difficult for you to deliver proof of your claims?
It would be interesting for all of us.
Have your friend who apparently has both make a video under natural lighting conditions and post it in hd. Or does this friend not exist?
Post Araz post here.


I will then forward it to Nuno and ask him for an answer.
I am very transparent about everything i posted here. Shame that i put all this work into this just to have people like you react this way.

I doubt that Panerai would write me 3 emails till they find the guy who knows just to than have him lie to me.

I don’t want to make the Panerai experience an unpleasant one for you. I give you the benefit of the doubt that you just don’t understand how things work with Panerai yet. Please read these words carefully—not every email you get from OP is based on fact. Many of us have experienced this before. OP made unique green dials for its boutique only editions and then used it for the 911... your contact got his facts wrong which is not unusual there...try to be a little open minded despite the desire to romanticize the creation of this PAM...

[vivicorsi]

Originally Posted by erik asher

I don’t want to make the Panerai experience an unpleasant one for you. I give you the benefit of the doubt that you just don’t understand how things work with Panerai yet. Please read these words carefully—not every email you get from OP is based on fact. Many of us have experienced this before. OP made unique green dials for its boutique only editions and then used it for the 911... your contact got his facts wrong which is not unusual there...try to be a little open minded despite the desire to romanticize the creation of this PAM...

Erik instead of going back and forth on the same topic why don‘t you try to provide value to this forum.

You can pretend what you want , but fact is we have an official Panerai statement that the colors are different.
Now if you don’t believe them give us sthg we can work on besides your „expertise“


I would be glad to know if there is sthg about your claim besides it just being your opinion.
I googled araz ... couldn’t find him , could you post his statement here?
Where is your friend who has both? Why no video? We have now both seen that the photos are no proof.

Try to be a problem solver not creator.
I cannot provide more than an official statement from the producer himself

Again PANERAi SAYS THEY ARE DiFFERENT

[erik asher]

Originally Posted by vivicorsi

Erik instead of going back and forth on the same topic why don‘t you try to provide value to this forum.

You can pretend what you want , but fact is we have an official Panerai statement that the colors are different.
Now if you don’t believe them give us sthg we can work on besides your „expertise“


I would be glad to know if there is sthg about your claim besides it just being your opinion.
I googled araz ... couldn’t find him , could you post his statement here?
Where is your friend who has both? Why no video? We have now both seen that the photos are no proof.

Try to be a problem solver not creator.
I cannot provide more than an official statement from the producer himself

Again PANERAi SAYS THEY ARE DiFFERENT

Statement from Araz:
Erik Asher I actually answered the exact same question on our local Swedish forum yesterday.

I think the green is just A LITTLE more light and a LITTLE more saturated on the 382. We're talking really small differences.

The 911 and the 736 have the exact same color though.

NOW YOU HAVE IT.

[vivicorsi]

Originally Posted by erik asher

Statement from Araz:
Erik Asher I actually answered the exact same question on our local Swedish forum yesterday.

I think the green is just A LITTLE more light and a LITTLE more saturated on the 382. We're talking really small differences.

The 911 and the 736 have the exact same color though.

NOW YOU HAVE IT.

Now finally sthg useful from you! We can work from there

On which forum is this ,could you post the link?, and ask him if we could have a video in natural light.


I would than forward the link and maybe video to Nuno from Panerai, and I would post my email here on the forum, and than hopefully his response.

[erik asher]

Originally Posted by vivicorsi

Now finally sthg useful from you! We can work from there

On which forum is this ,could you post the link?, and ask him if we could have a video in natural light.


I would than forward the link and maybe video to Nuno from Panerai, and I would post my email here on the forum, and than hopefully his response.

What’s “useful” is my 16 years of Panerai knowledge that I am trying to impart on you. I am done with this—anything else is a continuing waste of my time.

[vivicorsi]

Ahhh interesting;) I thought now that we both have invested so much time we could have brought it to a satisfying end . Well I guess now everyone will have to make up his own mind....

[vivicorsi]

[azcii]

If there is a difference between the 736 and the 911 in dial color, I must be color blind. I've looked for hours and I can't even see 1% of a difference.

[vivicorsi]

intersting, are these your watches? or where is the photo from?

[erik asher]

Originally Posted by azcii

If there is a difference between the 736 and the 911 in dial color, I must be color blind. I've looked for hours and I can't even see 1% of a difference.

There we have it...thank you for posting, my friend!! Beautiful trio!!! You have cornered the market!

[vivicorsi]

[vivicorsi]

it is really getting very strange now, i suppose these are your watches. well i am a doctor and yes you could have a problem in differentiating colors...there are easy tests on the net. but honestly that would be a very seldom coiincidence. found this on the forum...a guy who apparently has seen both and he claims they are differnt ...

well i am really confused now. if these are your watches ,just out of curiosity and for my eyes to see. would you mind making a video with your phone in natural light conditions? sun and shadow both watches on your wrist? i would love to send the link to nuno from panerai and see what he has to say?

thanks a lot