If you spend $10,000(investing discussion) or more...

[dave023]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Are you ok with losing 30%, 50%?

Do you want to see value retention?

A modest increase in value?

The idea that individuals would spend vast sums of cash and have zero concern regarding how stable the value of that item is over the years is absurd.

The new reality is luxury watches is an investment that should be managed as such. Yes it’s not a true return type of investment but if I have a $100,000 watch collection I’m going to assemble pieces that retain and gain value. That’s just a simple reality of 2018 and forward.

What is absurd in enjoying watches you like. Althoug I understand your reasoning, I think enjoying luxury items is very subjective.

I for instance like cuban cigars....I don’t care about the cost as long as I enjoy them.

[Houston77]

By the way, can I also mention this entire discussion doesn't make sense?

First, pretty much all models of Rolex will retain their value pretty well. That's the benefit of Rolex.

Second, let's say you're not a flipper, and don't have a crazy good relationship with your AD. So that foreclosures the "immediate" value items (blue skydweller, Daytona). With these, you'd probably have to pay over MSRP, which obviously is a poor proposition.

Therefore, what remains are the popular models (Subs, GMT, etc.) and the lesser popular (YM, Milgauss, most TTs). With the former, you'd have to pay MSRP as, even used, you're not going to get much off. With the latter, you CAN negotiate a discount, or buy used with a substantial discount. This difference largely mitigates the "investment" risk between the two.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by 79280_116520

If you're concerned about value retention for a hobby, then you shouldn't get in the game. Hobbies are for fun, not investing.

I also collect guitars and play guitar and every guitar I own has gone up in value. Is that just smart purchasing? Or luck?

[Houston77]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Why not? If I buy property in a beautiful location and take the family there for several months of the year and in twenty years I sell and double my money what’s the issue?

Wait, you pay for plane tickets? And FOOD? Wasteful!

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Houston77

By the way, can I also mention this entire discussion doesn't make sense?

First, pretty much all models of Rolex will retain their value pretty well. That's the benefit of Rolex.

Second, let's say you're not a flipper, and don't have a crazy good relationship with your AD. So that foreclosure the "immediate" value items (blue skydweller, Daytona). With these, you'd probably have to pay over MSRP, which obviously is a poor proposition.

Therefore, what remains are the popular models (Subs, GMT, etc.) and the lesser popular (YM, Milgauss, most TTs). With the former, you'd have to pay MSRP as, even used, you're not going to get much off. With the latter, you CAN negotiate a discount, or buy used with a substantial discount. This difference largely mitigates the "investment" risk between the two.

It makes sense because there is thread after thread that buying a watch is not an investment and I beg to differ most of us prefer Rolex because we know our money is generally safe.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Houston77

Wait, you pay for plane tickets? And FOOD? Wasteful!

Life has expenses. Totally different subject from non necessities that we purchase for pleasure.

[Houston77]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

It makes sense because there is thread after thread that buying a watch is not an investment and I beg to differ most of us prefer Rolex because we know our money is generally safe.

Again, there is a difference between return being a CONSIDERATION with a hobby and it being the DRIVING FORCE. You don't seem to get the difference.

[doboy007]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

I also collect guitars and play guitar and every guitar I own has gone up in value. Is that just smart purchasing? Or luck?

Then keep collecting guitars and not watches. Problem solved. Case closed.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Why not? If I buy property in a beautiful location and take the family there for several months of the year and in twenty years I sell and double my money what’s the issue?

Well, considering since 1968, homes in the US have increased an average of 5.8% annually, and then you deduct:
Realty fees
Annual taxes
General maintenance
Utilities
Insurance
.........just to name a few, doubt very much that sale price will net what you expect..........oh, and don’t forget taxes to Uncle Sam should you not reinvest any profit within a year, and I genuinely mean “any” after 20 years.

[Houston77]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Life has expenses. Totally different subject from non necessities that we purchase for pleasure.

I gotta say, your logic makes no sense. You basically just referred to a "plane ticket," a non-essential hobby-related expense, as a requisite life expense to justify its non-investment value.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Well, considering since 1968, homes in the US have increased an average of 5.8%, and then you deduct:
Realty fees
Annual taxes
General maintenance
Utilities
Insurance
.........just to name a few, doubt very much that sale price will net what you expect..........oh, and don’t forget taxes should you not reinvest any profit within a year.

Ok but you are discussing an average across the board. I’m discussing a very specific type of property that has better growth and in a sense your expenses can generally be covered by rentals.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by Speed

I can see just fine. I buy what I like.

Again, put your money where your posts are. What killer watch "investments" have you made?

I hear the sounds of silence...

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Houston77

I gotta say, your logic makes no sense. You basically just referred to a "plane ticket," a non-essential hobby-related expense, as a requisite life expense to justify its non-investment value.

I have to travel for work occasionally. I make money from being available. Seems to make sense to me.

[Houston77]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Ok but you are discussing an average across the board. I’m discussing a very specific type of property that has better growth and in a sense your expenses can generally be covered by rentals.

Yup, these type of investments never fail.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Speed

I hear the sounds of silence...

What Silence? I think I’m a pretty prolific poster. Just my op :)

[Houston77]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

I have to travel for work occasionally. I make money from being available. Seems to make sense to me.

I'm talking about the plane tickets you buy to take your family to the investment property that will always make money while wearing your discontinued Explorer that will only go up in value.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Houston77

Yup, these type of investments never fail.

Is this discussion about 100% risk free endeavors? No.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Ok but you are discussing an average across the board. I’m discussing a very specific type of property that has better growth and in a sense your expenses can generally be covered by rentals.

Ahhh.....agree now.....let’s be clear then.
You mentioned it as a “vacation home” that would double in 20 years.
Now it’s a rental, to offset the losses, of having a vacation home that would otherwise not net a gain.
Now that is better put.
BTW, I didn’t even mention inflation. That let’s say half million dollar home now, worth a million in 20 years is fool’s gold if you think you made $500,000.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Houston77

I'm talking about the plane tickets you buy to take your family to the investment property that will always make money while wearing your discontinued Explorer that will only go up in value.

Where did I start a discussion stating that every expense one makes in life should equal a profit. It’s not a good strategy you are taking. Stay on topic.

[doboy007]

Can we just close this pointless thread

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Ahhh.....agree now.....let’s be clear then.
You mentioned it as a “vacation home” that would double in 20 years.
Now it’s a rental, to offset the losses, of having a vacation home that would otherwise not net a gain.
Now that is better put.
BTW, I didn’t even mention inflation. That let’s say half million dollar home now, worth a million in 20 years is fool’s gold if you think you made $500,000.

But do you understand that I retained value? Which is the point of this discussion. I don’t plan to be wealthy from watches but I know I can if needed not sell any for a loss. And I still get to enjoy them.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by doboy007

Can we just close this pointless thread

No.

[WhiskeyKoffee]

I don't understand why the term "investment" creates so much fighting here on the discussion boards. So I will avoid the term and simply share my thoughts.

If I spend $10,000 on a luxurious vacation, my money is gone and replaced with precious memories, but that $10,000 is never coming back.

If I spend $10,000 on stocks, gold, silver, real estate or mutual funds, I may make or lose money depending on the market and my timing.

If I spend $10,000 on a new car, I will get a service from that car but that service will undoubtedly cost me money. I will never get all $10,000 back.

If I spend $10,000 on a Rolex watch, odds are I will be able to get my money back anytime I want to sell it. This is especially true if I purchased it pre-owned, bought an "in demand" model without paying a premium, took good care of it, and kept it fully insured.

I have enough money invested in stocks, real estate and precious metals. I don't need or want a new car, and I'm unable to get away for a vacation for a while. So I'm out looking for my third Rolex, and loving every minute of it.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

What Silence? I think I’m a pretty prolific poster. Just my op :)

What are the specific examples of your successful watch investments?

State your purchase price / sold price to demonstrate your superlative rate of return...

Or...if you are still "holding" said watches, your purchase price is sufficient as others here know the current market value.

"Empty wagons make the most noise."

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyKoffee

If I spend $10,000 on a Rolex watch, odds are I will be able to get my money back anytime I want to sell it. This is especially true if I purchased it pre-owned, bought an "in demand" model without paying a premium, took good care of it, and kept it fully insured.

I have enough money invested in stocks, real estate and precious metals. I don't need or want a new car, and I'm unable to get away for a vacation for a while. So I'm out looking for my third Rolex, and loving every minute of it.

Sounds like the perfect response.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Speed

What are the specific examples of your successful watch investments?

State your purchase price / sold price to demonstrate your superlative rate of return...

Or...if you are still "holding" said watches, your purchase price is sufficient as others here know the current market value.

"Empty wagons make the most noise."

I don’t sell watches as previously discussed. But if I did the hope is that I chose wisely. I think I have a dozen safe bets.

[Houston77]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

I don’t sell watches as previously discussed. But if I did the hope is that I chose wisely. I think I have a dozen safe bets.

Lists them. Let the board analyze your "safe bets."

Conversely, list the Rolex models you believe are poor investments.

Put your money where you mouth is.

[GBD]

Originally Posted by Houston77

This type of mentality ropes people into buying models they don't want simply because of the "investment" angle. What's the point of getting into this hobby if your primary focus is on return? It robs all passion and joy.

So much this. These $$/value retention/speculation posts have sucked a lot of fun out of the forum.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Houston77

Lists them. Let the board analyze your "safe bets."

We can start a new thread about my collection. You seem strangely obsessed. Stay on topic.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by GBD

So much this. These $$/value retention/speculation posts have sucked a lot of fun out of the forum.

What if part of the fun is finding models you love and not losing a damn dollar? Some could find fun in that prospect. No?