Rolex is on fire. It's the hottest watch brand on the planet right now.

[turborolex]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

round, oyster case, oyster bracelet, time and date only (for the most part). They just call them subs, sea dwellers, Yachtmasters, Date Just, and then you can add a GMT and you have a GMT Master or an Explorer II... its basically all the same watch


A 5711 and a 5990 are far more different than a Sub and a Date Just

You are right about the Rolex “architecture” being the same.

Isn’t that same business model as Porsche? so many 911s variants with the same engine tweaked up to get a GTS, add bigger TT to get a turbo, add more horses, some options and bigger turbos to the turbo and you get turbo s. To those who don’t know, it’s just a Porsche.

It’s seems to be working very well for both companies.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge fan of PP and own a few and appreciate the uniqueness they offer across the range.


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[Onikage]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

round, oyster case, oyster bracelet, time and date only (for the most part). They just call them subs, sea dwellers, Yachtmasters, Date Just, and then you can add a GMT and you have a GMT Master or an Explorer II... its basically all the same watch


A 5711 and a 5990 are far more different than a Sub and a Date Just

Holdy on doesn't Patek similarly make extensive use of its 324 in 3 hand date models? Nautilususes, Aquanauts, Calatravas. I get you Rolex doesn't have insane complications in the lineup but, it seems no one says Patek's 3 handers are all the same watch just because they aren't all waterproof.

[Bartlette]

I think i have simple, middle tier, watch tastes. I like Rolex and own sonne. I do not like the appearance of either a PP or other much more expensive watches. Cost is, of course, an issue. I wouldn't be able to reasonably buy a PP.

[Rolly.BT]

Rolex is king because it is the one luxury watch brand that EVERYONE knows about.

Other brands like PP AP and VC for example are only recognised amongst watch enthusiasts and entry price points are out of reach, even for enthusiasts.

[SubMarine]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

Well, 2017, Fitbit income was USD 2.17 Billion. From my understanding Apple's watch sales was comparable. My perspective is that the apple watch is one of the most redundant pieces of wearable tech. It's still new and still a fad. Most are using it as an exercise tracker. The screen is too small to do much with. That is the reason it won't replace cell phones and won't be like the wrist watch was to the pocket watch. I don't care what the Apple watch sales were this past year. I very seriously don't believe their sales can be maintained. It's truly a solution looking for a problem. On the other hand it's a cheap gee whiz gizmo for the wrist for people who don't want to spend much on a real quality watch. It occupies a low spot the watch status triangle.

Low spot, no.

[Nikrnic]

To each his own but your statement seems to hold a lot of water as of late.

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[hambone1983]

Originally Posted by Brew

I see way more apple watches than Rolexes where I live. It's not even close. Rolex isn't even smoldering here.

I'm sure you do. I bet you also see more fat people than supermodels.

[BRLEX850]

I saw Movado stock went up 20% after quarterly earnings this week. Market cap 1.16bil. Stock is up 126% overa 1yr period.

So mkt cap about 600mil last yr and now 1.16bil.
Net income $8.1mil this qtr. Same qtr last yr -4mil loss. Revenue $127mil up 28%.

[Uppersouth]

Rolex definitely is hot right now, but who are kidding, in their arena, they have been for decades. Their market share is so dominant when you consider the number of competitors. An industry executive recently was quoted as stating Rolex had close 50% market share. That’s unprecedented!

[singe89]

Originally Posted by kauffee

PP and AP are equally hot but they are playing in different leagues. You can buy a Submariner for $7500 and it’s a no-compromise watch. AP and PP don’t compete at that price point, but at the price point they compete at they are extremely hot.

Agree 100% was at the AP boutique on rodeo today because my buddy wanted to buy a ROC. They only had 1 SS RO in stock and it was a silver dial PC. Everything else was a wait. 6 months for the blue ROC and had to buy another AP before you went on the list. In the 30-40 min we were there they sold multiple RG ROs.

I bought my 15400 for around $11k...those days are long gone and lucky if you can find one at an AD or boutique.

Also went to goyard after to buy some gifts for the wives. There was a wait to get in. The high end luxury market is at a high again.

[WS9D]

At their price point, there's no comparison to Rolex imo, and that is why they are so hot. PP and AP are nice, but ascetically, they do nothing for me, especially at what they cost. If they were down in the Rolex price range, that MAY change for me.

At the price point rolex comes in at, there is nothing that looks as good, as robust, or has the commonly know pedigree as them. This is what makes them so hot.

Rolex has a lot going for them right now including brand recognition. They have for decades. In 1993 (I was 13), when my dad bought his first rolex, a TT sub LB, I was like wow, my dad has a rolex. If he would have bought a PP, it would have looked no different to me than any other whatever watch.

I love watches. Every picture of me as a kid I'm wearing a watch. I still have my first casio from when I was 6....Even as a kid, Rolex just stood out to me as awesome. Rolex just has that effect on people.

Glad I got into the game when i did, or I would be priced out now....

[singe89]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

round, oyster case, oyster bracelet, time and date only (for the most part). They just call them subs, sea dwellers, Yachtmasters, Date Just, and then you can add a GMT and you have a GMT Master or an Explorer II... its basically all the same watch


A 5711 and a 5990 are far more different than a Sub and a Date Just

Totally agree. Love how people say AP is only a single design yet the royal oak and offshore offer much more diversity than Rolex in materials, design, colors and way beyond in complications.

The sub, gmt, Daytona, sky-dweller, seadweller, etc are basically the same design with slightly different complications. The datejust, day-date, etc are also very similar. I would compare all these to the RO and ROO lines yet AP has the same SS and PMs and also Ti, ceramic, forged carbon, etc, they have the usual 3 hand, chronos, dual times but also have perpetual calendars, tourbillons, grande comps, etc.

People say AP doesn’t have popular dress watches but neither does Rolex with the Cellini line.

Patek has dress and sport but just limited options in their sport lines.

[rominvicta]

Personally, and obviously not in an objective manner, i prefer JL by far in comparison to AP and PP. i believe that is a brand that is by far undervalued in comparison to the usual suspects.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Uppersouth

Rolex definitely is hot right now, but who are kidding, in their arena, they have been for decades. Their market share is so dominant when you consider the number of competitors. An industry executive recently was quoted as stating Rolex had close 50% market share. That’s unprecedented!

50% market share?

Which market is this?

[HAL330]

Originally Posted by SubMarine

No other brand even comes close: Patek, Omega, AP, etc. Everyone wants a Rolex! When Rolex speaks, the world listens very attentively!

tell that to the guys waiting upwards of a decade for a 5711 Patek... but yes, Rolex sport watches are ALSO on fire..

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by directioneng

50% market share?

Which market is this?

in the US, for luxury watches. I think that is actually accurate.

[uniqueMR]

Rolex rules

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Onikage

Holdy on doesn't Patek similarly make extensive use of its 324 in 3 hand date models? Nautilususes, Aquanauts, Calatravas. I get you Rolex doesn't have insane complications in the lineup but, it seems no one says Patek's 3 handers are all the same watch just because they aren't all waterproof.

all i am saying is the one trick pony argument can go both ways. Im not criticizing Rolex either. Im just saying its odd to say Patek or AP only make one watch, (assuming the reference is a nautilus or RO) when ignoring the fact Rolex is basically doing the same thing with the oyster case, just with less complications.

[SubMarine]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

all i am saying is the one trick pony argument can go both ways. Im not criticizing Rolex either. Im just saying its odd to say Patek or AP only make one watch, (assuming the reference is a nautilus or RO) when ignoring the fact Rolex is basically doing the same thing with the oyster case, just with less complications.

A watch's case alone can mean everything to a collector. A watch case is a beautiful work of art no different than a painting or sculpture. For this reason, many collectors refuse to purchase anything that has been polished.

Do you understand the difference between a watch case and configuration type (which is what you seem to be alluding to), and a single product line such as the ROand Nautlius within a brand?

Are you suggesting that a $17MM Paul Newman Daytona is the same watch as a vintage Tissot with the same movement? I guess I don't quite understand your argument.

If I were a Patek fan, I would be deathly worried about the future if the brand, as they are now going down the same path as AP in the 1970's. Dealers find their Calatravas and Perpetual Calendar chronos languishing in display cases, as nobody wants the core pieces that defined Patek as early as 4 years ago.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by SubMarine

Do you understand the difference between a watch case and configuration type (which is what you seem to be alluding to), and a single product line such as the ROand Nautlius within a brand?

AP does not subdivide its product line like rolex, so are all RO's and that doesnt mean they are all the same. A RO is a PC, a Chrononograph, a grand complication, a time and date, an ultra thin, etc.

Rolex just calls a sub and a seadweller and a yacht master different product lines. It doesnt mean they actually are. Its the same watch with minor tweaks.

[SubMarine]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

AP does not subdivide its product line like rolex, so are all RO's and that doesnt mean they are all the same. A RO is a PC, a Chrononograph, a grand complication, a time and date, an ultra thin, etc.

Rolex just calls a sub and a seadweller and a yacht master different product lines. It doesnt mean they actually are. Its the same watch with minor tweaks.

I don't think anyone will deem the Submariner, Seadweller, and yacht master the "same watch." They're very different watches with entirely different cases, aesthetics, proportions, etc. Oftentimes in watch collecting, the movement can mean very very little to the extent it becomes inconsequential entirely.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by SubMarine

I don't think anyone will deem the Submariner, Seadweller, and yacht master the "same watch." They're very different watches with entirely different cases, aesthetics, proportions, etc. Oftentimes in watch collecting, the movement can mean very very little to the extent it becomes inconsequential entirely.

that IS the argument people are trying to make with the RO's... which are way more varied.

You cannot say the APs are all the same and then pick the minor differences between Rolex models and say "see they are different"

[SubMarine]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

that IS the argument people are trying to make with the RO's... which are way more varied.

You cannot say the APs are all the same and then pick the minor differences between Rolex models and say "see they are different"

AP is a one trick pony. Outside of the RO line, they don't have a single desirable product.

[Boaters]

Originally Posted by The Libertine

I do too; however, glad I already own the Rolex watches I have, cause there’s no friggin way I would pay current market prices.

Touche to that!

[AK797]

Originally Posted by singe89

Agree 100% was at the AP boutique on rodeo today because my buddy wanted to buy a ROC. They only had 1 SS RO in stock and it was a silver dial PC. Everything else was a wait. 6 months for the blue ROC and had to buy another AP before you went on the list. In the 30-40 min we were there they sold multiple RG ROs.

I bought my 15400 for around $11k...those days are long gone and lucky if you can find one at an AD or boutique.

Also went to goyard after to buy some gifts for the wives. There was a wait to get in. The high end luxury market is at a high again.

Indeed, we've heard there is a 200 waiting list in Geneva for the new Nautilus PC which costs £80K / $120K! There is certainly a lot of money around at the moment, so Rolex SS prices even at stiff grey premiums are still good value looking at the market as a whole.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by SubMarine

AP is a one trick pony. Outside of the RO line, they don't have a single desirable product.

Yes, they do, they have the seminal and game-changing ROO line, which redefined the high luxury dynamic sports watch, much like the RO line did in the 70s.

I think you are trying to split hairs here, all three brands are now clearly established as their market leaders, and they are actually pretty similar, because they all have their winning formulas and on the whole they stick to that which is perfectly sensible, and it's never worked better for any of them.

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by HL65

Ok thanks I will try and listen to hear what my watches say more attentively.

I'm gettin: ting,ting,ting,ting,ting,ting,ting....
What's it saying?

Probably, "get that great big fat ear, outa my face"!

[Vetracer]

The majority of people don’t have bottomless disposable income. The brand Rolex is usually the first “luxury” watch brand people go for when they make a major accomplishment and realise surplus funds. They’re good watches, tough, reliable, and versatile. They most certainly NOT the best in terms of quality and value. They’ve also become so popular; everywhere you look in major cities, there’s a Rolex.

Their brilliant at marketing and are doing a good job of attracting the attention of the youth.

Me though, I’m bored with their designs. I’ve owned 7 different Rolex’s and have 3 remaining. The Ceramic Daytona is the only one that gets wrist time. I don’t see myself ever buying another.

I wonder just how much value rentention plays in the current popularity of Rolex.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by HL65

Ok thanks I will try and listen to hear what my watches say more attentively.

Mine says: “tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick.....”

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Lt Virgil Hilts

I'm gettin: ting,ting,ting,ting,ting,ting,ting....
What's it saying?

Probably, "get that great big fat ear, outa my face"!

Ting? Virgil, you must have bought yours in a different country, not speaking the same language as mine.