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outtatime · 20 July 2018, 01:07 AM

If it's listed/communicated as a condition to the sale, that is different. Then you have the right to not buy from them.

If you purchase the watch, and this is NOT communicated to you, then you have the right to everything that comes with that watch.

If my AD told me they were keeping the card before I bought it, I wouldn't buy it. If they didn't explicitly state that, or worse they told me they wouldn't but then backtracked, I'm pretty sure a simple trip to small claims would rectify that.

Ravager135 · 20 July 2018, 01:12 AM

ADs, I suppose, can enforce whatever sort of policy they want. As a consumer you can obviously refuse purchase under these sorts of "conditions." I just find this whole practice to be "petty." If an AD has a watch that is not promised to another customer, just make the sale if the terms are there. Holding papers, card, whatever just seems like such nonsense. Requiring that a customer spend X amount of dollars on other items to be "allowed" to purchase a stainless steel sports model is absurd (again assuming there is no waitlist and no one else has reserved a piece).

Kingfish01 · 20 July 2018, 01:13 AM

I’m all for it. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Keeping the papers for a year is almost meaningless except to a flipper. If you need warranty work you can simply take it back to where you bought it from, or probably just take it anywhere. I’m sure that Rolex can simply look up the serial number and know when it was purchased and by whom

Noonan · 20 July 2018, 01:16 AM

It's not the actual papers that people aren't happy with. It's the idea of them not giving you something you paid for. If you buy from an AD, you don't need papers at all. They can always look up the sale. But the arrogance to limit the supply of a product then ask retailers to not give customers their papers is pretty poor service. Don't want gray market selling your product? Make enough so people don't have to go to gray market to get one.

Sprta · 20 July 2018, 01:20 AM

Its interesting that many of us complain about the grey market, and now that some ADs are trying to address we complain about their methods. You cannot have it both ways.

Devildog · 20 July 2018, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outtatime

If it's listed/communicated as a condition to the sale, that is different. Then you have the right to not buy from them.

If you purchase the watch, and this is NOT communicated to you, then you have the right to everything that comes with that watch.

If my AD told me they were keeping the card before I bought it, I wouldn't buy it. If they didn't explicitly state that, or worse they told me they wouldn't but then backtracked, I'm pretty sure a simple trip to small claims would rectify that.

We've covered this off a few times now.

No where do Rolex say that you get a small plastic card as part of your purchase. Or hang tags, stickers or anything else that is often claimed on here is "part" of the watch

Agreed, its not ideal and I would always prefer the "full Set", but here in the UK its the only way now for many to obtain hard to get sports references. Practically speaking you would only run into an issue if you wanted to flip the watch for profit - the very thing its designed to prevent.

Otherwise, its a complete non issue (in the UK)

SG56 · 20 July 2018, 01:24 AM

I would have no problem letting them keep the warranty card for a year.

It's the retailer keeping it, not an online sale.

If that helps getting the watches to people who want and appreciate them, i'm all for it!

What do you need the warranty card for? THat's right, to sell it within a year.
If there is a problem, you'll go to the dealer anyway.

Noonan · 20 July 2018, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprta

Its interesting that many of us complain about the grey market, and now that some ADs are trying to address we complain about their methods. You cannot have it both ways.

This doesn't really hurt gray dealers. It only hurts individuals who buy 1 or 2 to flip quickly. Gray dealers aren't buying their watches over an AD counter.

dnpina · 20 July 2018, 01:26 AM

I wouldn't cancel a deal for a watch I really wanted.

Ped22 · 20 July 2018, 01:58 AM

This keeping the warranty card business pushes the price up in the greys for watches with warranty cards which is opposite to what the retailers are aiming for.

It might be more effective if every dealer applied this policy but at the moment only some do so the people that get warranty cards have more of an advantage than before

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Soultime · 20 July 2018, 02:23 AM

Also worth remembering when we get people quoting consumer rights on here, that there will obviously be different laws in different countries.

Kingfish01 · 20 July 2018, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noonan

This doesn't really hurt gray dealers. It only hurts individuals who buy 1 or 2 to flip quickly. Gray dealers aren't buying their watches over an AD counter.

It hurts grey dealers in that somebody will not pay as much without papers (two Identical watches at the same price, one has papers one does not, which do you buy?). I, for one, would expect a lower price without papers or I wouldn’t maybe I just wouldn’t buy it at all. Paying these exorbitant prices and not getting warranty papers is a tough pill to swallow

StrongDGame · 20 July 2018, 02:30 AM

Kudos to that AD for doing that. It allows us normal people to buy it rather than their "preferred clients" (exact word used by an AD here in chicago) to get first dibs and then go back and sell them for huge markups. AD's literally sell us the scraps that their grey market dealers don't want.

tottallyoff · 20 July 2018, 02:35 AM

Yes - keeping of the warranty is true in London. But it depends on the person. I know people who got the SD43 with all paperwork, and someone who got a Hulk and they kept the warranty for 6 months.

Everyone knows that rolex are maintaining secondary market prices up artificially.

The other story Ive heard from my AD (bucherer in London), is that it depends on the customer. If you are coming in from the street and want to buy something that is really hot on the secondary market right now, they are right to suspect that you are going to be flipping. But at the same time they cant really stop you from doing it even if you are a seasoned customer. Its your watch at the end of the day.

What AD told me is that they are banning people from purchasing a watch again. Not banning, really, but keeping a list of who been caught. They are looking at the secondary market and even purchasing the watches on chrono24 or ebay and telling AD's not to sell to the resellers again. Meaning that if you had a relationship with a dealer, they remove you from their customer list and you basically start from scratch.

Noonan · 20 July 2018, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingfish01

It hurts grey dealers in that somebody will not pay as much without papers (two Identical watches at the same price, one has papers one does not, which do you buy?). I, for one, would expect a lower price without papers or I wouldn’t maybe I just wouldn’t buy it at all. Paying these exorbitant prices and not getting warranty papers is a tough pill to swallow

Do any gray watches come with papers? Buying from a place like Joma or AuthenticWatches never come with proper AD papers; just their own warranty card.

MinMay · 20 July 2018, 02:40 AM

rolex should rip up and discontinued the warranty card. It's so meaningless.

Rolex loves to create drama for some reason.

hai.tranhr · 20 July 2018, 03:19 AM

We pay money then they have to offer all!

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DARK_KNIGHT · 20 July 2018, 03:31 AM

I don´t see any other way to buy MSRP. AD can turn it into a "take or leave it" policy (which, I suppose it already is).

Buying @MSRP...............I would take it. I would respect but not necessarily agree with the policy.

I do not think the measure is aimed at the "legitimate" buy and hold clientele, it seems aimed at the "flipper"/grey marketeer .

TakeYourTime · 20 July 2018, 03:37 AM

I would under no circumstances by a Rolex without getting the papers! It's different from AD to AD and if all "have" to do it I will switch to Patek and Lange

2nastie · 20 July 2018, 03:41 AM

No issues here.

They play the build a profile and become a VIP game with most SS watches anyways. Hot models end up going to preferred clients anyways (and they typically aren't flippers if they are already spending lots of dough)

Grindman · 20 July 2018, 03:43 AM

I didn't think much of the dealer keeping the papers, but at people here mentioning maybe this is for our own best. Seeing people buying rolex watches for the soul benefit of reselling them at a premium price due to they have a "change of heart" or "other priorities". These are the ones that ruins the marked.

rolexinfl · 20 July 2018, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinMay

rolex should rip up and discontinued the warranty card. It's so meaningless.

Rolex loves to create drama for some reason.

This.

Rolex has a listing of all their serial numbers and what they correspond to, and where they go to. The AD should notify Rolex of the time of sale to begin the warranty and that's it.

I have and will gladly pay less for pre-owned Rolex's without box or papers as they mean nothing to me.

AK797 · 20 July 2018, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noonan

This doesn't really hurt gray dealers. It only hurts individuals who buy 1 or 2 to flip quickly. Gray dealers aren't buying their watches over an AD counter.

They are not trying to kill grey dealers, many ADs have deals with greys to move the unsellables and thus they get the populars too, and Rolex is OK with that, probably in this market greys are getting bundled too and are taking an extra DJ or PM to get the D500s etc. No, it is the one time only flipper in it just for a quick buck that have doubled waiting lists for genuine buyers that they want to stop.

nvrp813 · 20 July 2018, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noonan

Do any gray watches come with papers? Buying from a place like Joma or AuthenticWatches never come with proper AD papers; just their own warranty card.

And this is stipulated on their website. Not too mention the prices being under msrp reflect this stipulation.

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joli160 · 20 July 2018, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noonan

Do any gray watches come with papers? Buying from a place like Joma or AuthenticWatches never come with proper AD papers; just their own warranty card.

Bought all my Rolex watches grey, all with my name on the card under full warranty. Stamped by the AD who sold the watch to the grey dealer in the first place.
Over night delivery of a full set without playing games.
There are more grey dealers than those you mentioned and it makes buying a Rolex easy peasy.

nvrp813 · 20 July 2018, 04:11 AM

Straight from Rolex... A warranty card will be placed inside the box “at the moment of purchase”.

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jb335 · 20 July 2018, 04:13 AM

In this current market with rampant flipping, I am totally ok with them holding on to the warranty card for a year. I encourage and welcome it.

I even told my AD I would let them engrave the caseback if they sold me a 16500.

jb335 · 20 July 2018, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprta

Its interesting that many of us complain about the grey market, and now that some ADs are trying to address we complain about their methods. You cannot have it both ways.

x2

Finslayer83 · 20 July 2018, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolexinfl

This is like store owners in the USA opening bourbon bottles in the USA before you leave the store with them, so you dont flip them for a profit.

Some care, some dont.

lol what.

I get Van Winkle every year and have never seen this done.

rudestew · 20 July 2018, 04:19 AM

^true^ sprta

20 July 2018, 01:07 AM	#61
outtatime "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Real Name: Jon Location: Toledo, OH Watch: Deepsea Posts: 1,136	If it's listed/communicated as a condition to the sale, that is different. Then you have the right to not buy from them. If you purchase the watch, and this is NOT communicated to you, then you have the right to everything that comes with that watch. If my AD told me they were keeping the card before I bought it, I wouldn't buy it. If they didn't explicitly state that, or worse they told me they wouldn't but then backtracked, I'm pretty sure a simple trip to small claims would rectify that. __________________ The above represents my opinion. I may be wrong, but that's how I feel. Scratches ≠ "Character"

20 July 2018, 01:24 AM	#67
SG56 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Tampa Watch: SD4K Posts: 2,674	I would have no problem letting them keep the warranty card for a year. It's the retailer keeping it, not an online sale. If that helps getting the watches to people who want and appreciate them, i'm all for it! What do you need the warranty card for? THat's right, to sell it within a year. If there is a problem, you'll go to the dealer anyway. __________________ Sea-Dweller 116600 - the manly one GMT II 16710 - the manly one Daytona 116500 - the manly-womanly one Yacht-Master 268622 - the chick version Speedy Mitsukoshi <3 Tag Heuer Aquaracer WAF141C.BA0824 - the chick version Thank you logan5tx!!! Have to link it. Too long for the signature. https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...0&postcount=14

20 July 2018, 03:31 AM	#78
DARK_KNIGHT "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Real Name: Jack Location: Dothan Watch: Cartier Posts: 1,236	I don´t see any other way to buy MSRP. AD can turn it into a "take or leave it" policy (which, I suppose it already is). Buying @MSRP...............I would take it. I would respect but not necessarily agree with the policy. I do not think the measure is aimed at the "legitimate" buy and hold clientele, it seems aimed at the "flipper"/*grey marketeer* . __________________ "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

20 July 2018, 01:12 AM	#62
Ravager135 "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: New Jersey Posts: 4,224	ADs, I suppose, can enforce whatever sort of policy they want. As a consumer you can obviously refuse purchase under these sorts of "conditions." I just find this whole practice to be "petty." If an AD has a watch that is not promised to another customer, just make the sale if the terms are there. Holding papers, card, whatever just seems like such nonsense. Requiring that a customer spend X amount of dollars on other items to be "allowed" to purchase a stainless steel sports model is absurd (again assuming there is no waitlist and no one else has reserved a piece).

20 July 2018, 01:13 AM	#63
Kingfish01 "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: MD Posts: 164	I’m all for it. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Keeping the papers for a year is almost meaningless except to a flipper. If you need warranty work you can simply take it back to where you bought it from, or probably just take it anywhere. I’m sure that Rolex can simply look up the serial number and know when it was purchased and by whom

20 July 2018, 01:16 AM	#64
Noonan Banned Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: US Watch: 3570.50 Posts: 2,156	It's not the actual papers that people aren't happy with. It's the idea of them not giving you something you paid for. If you buy from an AD, you don't need papers at all. They can always look up the sale. But the arrogance to limit the supply of a product then ask retailers to not give customers their papers is pretty poor service. Don't want gray market selling your product? Make enough so people don't have to go to gray market to get one.

20 July 2018, 01:20 AM	#65
Sprta "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: USA Posts: 457	Its interesting that many of us complain about the grey market, and now that some ADs are trying to address we complain about their methods. You cannot have it both ways.

20 July 2018, 01:26 AM	#69
dnpina Banned Join Date: May 2009 Location: texas Watch: 126610 LV Posts: 1,529	I wouldn't cancel a deal for a watch I really wanted.

20 July 2018, 01:58 AM	#70
Ped22 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: UK Posts: 167	This keeping the warranty card business pushes the price up in the greys for watches with warranty cards which is opposite to what the retailers are aiming for. It might be more effective if every dealer applied this policy but at the moment only some do so the people that get warranty cards have more of an advantage than before Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

20 July 2018, 02:23 AM	#71
Soultime "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Cheshire UK Posts: 1,071	Also worth remembering when we get people quoting consumer rights on here, that there will obviously be different laws in different countries.

20 July 2018, 02:30 AM	#73
StrongDGame "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Real Name: Saif Location: Chicago Watch: Rolex no date sub Posts: 59	Kudos to that AD for doing that. It allows us normal people to buy it rather than their "preferred clients" (exact word used by an AD here in chicago) to get first dibs and then go back and sell them for huge markups. AD's literally sell us the scraps that their grey market dealers don't want.

20 July 2018, 02:35 AM	#74
tottallyoff "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Real Name: Mike Location: london Posts: 52	Yes - keeping of the warranty is true in London. But it depends on the person. I know people who got the SD43 with all paperwork, and someone who got a Hulk and they kept the warranty for 6 months. Everyone knows that rolex are maintaining secondary market prices up artificially. The other story Ive heard from my AD (bucherer in London), is that it depends on the customer. If you are coming in from the street and want to buy something that is really hot on the secondary market right now, they are right to suspect that you are going to be flipping. But at the same time they cant really stop you from doing it even if you are a seasoned customer. Its your watch at the end of the day. What AD told me is that they are banning people from purchasing a watch again. Not banning, really, but keeping a list of who been caught. They are looking at the secondary market and even purchasing the watches on chrono24 or ebay and telling AD's not to sell to the resellers again. Meaning that if you had a relationship with a dealer, they remove you from their customer list and you basically start from scratch.

20 July 2018, 02:40 AM	#76
MinMay Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: United States Posts: 2,410	rolex should rip up and discontinued the warranty card. It's so meaningless. Rolex loves to create drama for some reason.

20 July 2018, 03:19 AM	#77
hai.tranhr "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Ho Chi Minh Posts: 230	We pay money then they have to offer all! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

20 July 2018, 03:37 AM	#79
TakeYourTime "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Real Name: Alex Location: California Watch: Changes daily Posts: 410	I would under no circumstances by a Rolex without getting the papers! It's different from AD to AD and if all "have" to do it I will switch to Patek and Lange

20 July 2018, 03:41 AM	#80
2nastie "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: YVR Watch: Time Only Posts: 2,332	No issues here. They play the build a profile and become a VIP game with most SS watches anyways. Hot models end up going to preferred clients anyways (and they typically aren't flippers if they are already spending lots of dough)

20 July 2018, 03:43 AM	#81
Grindman "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Norway Posts: 1	I didn't think much of the dealer keeping the papers, but at people here mentioning maybe this is for our own best. Seeing people buying rolex watches for the soul benefit of reselling them at a premium price due to they have a "change of heart" or "other priorities". These are the ones that ruins the marked.

20 July 2018, 04:11 AM	#86
nvrp813 "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: USA Posts: 152	Straight from Rolex... A warranty card will be placed inside the box “at the moment of purchase”. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

20 July 2018, 04:13 AM	#87
jb335 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: The States Watch: Cosmograph Daytona Posts: 7,464	In this current market with rampant flipping, I am totally ok with them holding on to the warranty card for a year. I encourage and welcome it. I even told my AD I would let them engrave the caseback if they sold me a 16500.

20 July 2018, 04:19 AM	#90
rudestew "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: UK Bristol Watch: DSSD SD43 Mk1 50TH Posts: 1,247	^true^ sprta

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