2018...and RSC have just fitted a new Flat Four insert to an LV for me.

[Mystro]

That looks great. I’m a little more than suprised. Major score from a factory service.

[ronricks]

Originally Posted by bobabreath

The flat 4 bezel is more rare whether it serial correct to the watch or not. So Rolex just did you a favor and increased the value of your watch if you ever decide to sell. I would just wear and enjoy as is.

Sorry but the flat 4 font isn’t rare. Was used on the submariner and seadweller for ages. Have a co worker with a ‘D’ serial 16610 LV that returned from a RSC service with a flat 4 insert.

[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by ronricks

Sorry but the flat 4 font isn’t rare. Was used on the submariner and seadweller for ages. Have a co worker with a ‘D’ serial 16610 LV that returned from a RSC service with a flat 4 insert.

The relevant question is whether a green bezel insert for the Submariner 16610 LV with a Flat Four is rare. Do you have a conclusion on that specific question, and if so on what do you base it?

Wider use of Flat Fours on other bezels is irrelevant.

H

[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by 037

Haywood - How much did they charge for the new insert?

"£200 on exchange basis" + 20% VAT and in tandem with a full service.

[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by CPRWATCH

Thanks for posting Haywood .But just had a thought , I have a V serial LV with a non flat four insert fitted, do you think the RSC might change it to a flat four " possible service " variant like yours if it went in for a service . I hope they don't ,as it won't be as originally purchased , just a thought .

I don't think they will treat a 2004 LV differently from a 2008 one, so if this is a new service insert then yes, I would expect you to receive it in due course.

Only time will tell for sure, as other members have their LVs serviced.

[dmhines]

Perhaps they were running low on replacement inserts so had another 10,000 made for inventory. Perhaps they used the flat 4 font for all 10,000. Maybe all LV’s in for service get that insert now. That would be interesting.

[jrs146]

Very interesting. I think it does open the door to some sellers not being fully upfront when the sell a watch. This can be scary as a lot of buyers don’t have the knowledge or are too trusting. I would think on an LV any service parts should be disclosed. Not that it necessarily changes the value but the buyer should make that decision, not the seller.

I do wonder what would happen to the market if watches originally issued with a non flat-4 receive a flat-4 what would happen to the market? It would surely go down. But none the less they’re fantastic watches. My favorite of the 5-digits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Camel]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

Its apparent misalignment is the sole responsibility of your correspondent's failure to compose the subject matter with sufficient care. The bezel lines up within usual tolerances when turned to the correct position!

[RRGHOST1]

Originally Posted by Enoch

Just to clarify. Although Haywood won’t blow his own trumpet, I’ll do it for him.

He is one of the UK’s leading experts on most things Rolex. You may think his contribution is sad, but his level of knowledge is regularly used by the police and dealers around the country to ID stolen, franken, and bitsa watches that regularly appear on the market to trick the unwary.

I’d go as far to say that he has probably saved hundreds of people from being duped. His knowledge and help to forum members is given freely.

He’s also a very nice chap.

I second everything you say about him. I have bought three Rolex off him in the past and was invited to view his watch collection which is stunning. I know quite a few people on this forum have called him fit to burn for some bizarre reason. I have steered a few people in Haywoods direction because he has had a Rolex they particularly wanted. Nice bloke, nice staff, nice shops !

[Rashid.bk]

I'm just enjoying looking at this watch. The LV in my opinion is the best iteration of the modern Submariner, with lug holes I'd sell an organ.
Traditional case with a maxi dial and just enough color in the bezel to make looking at the time interesting.
One day flat four, round four, upside down four, I don't really care but I will own one.

[037]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

"£200 on exchange basis" + 20% VAT and in tandem with a full service.

Bargain.

[avilhena]

Very informative post! Thanks for sharing!

[fleabag]

Wow, makes me want to send mine off to them


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[padi56]

Originally Posted by 037

Bargain.

Would hardly call it a bargain at around £240 for the colour green aluminum insert when the black is around £45.

[R!$]

Nice watch

[037]

Originally Posted by padi56

Would hardly call it a bargain at around £240 for the colour green aluminum insert when the black is around £45.

Despite my reply being being mildly tongue-in-cheek, flat-four inserts are $400+ here in the US from RSC NY and $4000+ on the open market. As ridiculous as those prices are, technically that is a bargain all things considered -- albeit still expensive.

Call me crazy but I prefer the flat-four typeface over the pointed regardless of the hype. I'd gladly pay £240 for a new one since that's exponentially better than £3000+.

If these become standard service parts then we might see early LVs settle back down to a more realistic price. That would be a win.

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

"£200 on exchange basis" + 20% VAT and in tandem with a full service.

can I ask how damaged were your original bezel?

Originally Posted by dmhines

Perhaps they were running low on replacement inserts so had another 10,000 made for inventory. Perhaps they used the flat 4 font for all 10,000. Maybe all LV’s in for service get that insert now. That would be interesting.

I think so too ,there was a guy on the german forum who got a flat4 during service couple of yrs before,i guess Rolex makes a batch of these and a batch of that on demand and they don t really care with the hue and fonts .

Btw if really the F4 is the new service insert then it will equalize nicely the LV prices on the preowned market.

[springer]

Milton, that anniversary green Sub flat 4 insert has been around for a while. Here is an old photo identifying the various green inserts. (Photo from one of the internet sites with information regarding the various 16610 LV Submariners.) There are two variations of the flat 4 inserts, one has slight flairs at the end of the tips and the other doesn't.

[Haywood_Milton]

Er, yes, but if you compare the macro image of mine you will see that it is different from both the Flat Fours you have just illustrated.

Do feel free to use my first name ;-)

[springer]

Here are a few more without the flair on the end of the 4s. The last two are from sales here on TRF.

[DtownRRS]

Did a side by side at scale and the 2 that looked the closest at the top are not the same as Milton's. The others have completely different 4's.

[037]

Originally Posted by DtownRRS

Did a side by side at scale and the 2 that looked the closest at the top are not the same as Milton's. The others have completely different 4's.

Agreed. Milton's version does look different than the previous known versions.

Your image didn't show up for me so here's the direct link: http://s58.photobucket.com/user/Dtow...019pe.jpg.html

[oldman2005]

Awesome! Wonder if your Kermit may have doubled in value after the service.

I'd keep the RSC service paper if you ever resell this watch

[Haywood_Milton]

It seems that no-one has yet shown an LV insert with Flat Four which matches the one just fitted by Rolex UK.

There are those, of course, who might obtain such a bezel and sell it without any disclosure of the fact that it is a recent supply.

Wherever the value of these "FF'18" inserts settles, we should ensure that we can identify one type from another. I hope this thread serves to assist.

Haywood

IG : haywood_milton_rolex

[Blingtone]

Bought mine after mulling it over for a year (in 2006 £2840 would've got you a 16610 and £3030 a 16610LV) I eventually went for the LV because of the more legible dial.
I own a Z model no rehault, when I bought it in Nov 2007 (a month old, pre-owned but unworn £3295 - knocked down from £3500) I had the choice of at least half a dozen.... they were just behind Explorer IIs for not being able to be shifted then, honestly!
Obviously this was well before the internet hype started a couple of years ago (mainly by dealers) re flat fours, mk 457 dials blahdy, blah etc. - which at the time I thought was cobblers and still do.
I'm not worried how much mine's worth I bought it cos I liked it and I like wearing it - still do.
I'm guessing that this post (as interesting as it is) could be an 'Emperorers New Clothes' moment for those who've bought into the hype recently and paid over the odds for something that Padi and others on here have always maintained is not an anomally, just ROLEX being ROLEX with these service bezels and of course the original dials and bezels.

[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by Blingtone

Bought mine after mulling it over for a year (in 2006 £2840 would've got you a 16610 and £3030 a 16610LV) I eventually went for the LV because of the more legible dial.
I own a Z model no rehault, when I bought it in Nov 2007 (a month old, pre-owned but unworn £3295 - knocked down from £3500) I had the choice of at least half a dozen.... they were just behind Explorer IIs for not being able to be shifted then, honestly!
Obviously this was well before the internet hype started a couple of years ago (mainly by dealers) re flat fours, mk 457 dials blahdy, blah etc. - which at the time I thought was cobblers and still do.
I'm not worried how much mine's worth I bought it cos I liked it and I like wearing it - still do.
I'm guessing that this post (as interesting as it is) could be an 'Emperorers New Clothes' moment for those who've bought into the hype recently and paid over the odds for something that Padi and others on here have always maintained is not an anomally, just ROLEX being ROLEX with these service bezels and of course the original dials and bezels.

A perfectly reasonable view, of course. However, whatever your view you will be a better buyer / seller or perhaps a more satisfied collector if you have more knowledge of the subject. The value in such a thread surely lies in sharing that with each other?

H

IG : haywood_milton_rolex

[Blingtone]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

A perfectly reasonable view, of course. However, whatever your view you will be a better buyer / seller or perhaps a more satisfied collector if you have more knowledge of the subject. The value in such a thread surely lies in sharing that with each other?

H

IG : haywood_milton_rolex

Interesting that you use the word 'view', because that is exactly what all of the hype amounts to, really - they're people's views expert or not.
I mean the only things that ROLEX has been definitive with, with this particular model is that it's a 50th Anniversary model and that it's been discontinued.
If I was buying now, any priced over £8.5 would probably push me towards a YM Blue (much harder to trust provenance on LVs now), as I also own a 2 liner sub since '89 (which is just as good a watch, for purpose IMHO) and because of the knowledge I have from being an LV owner..... just my view.
Thanks for sharing, by the way.
T or B

[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by Blingtone

Interesting that you use the word 'view', because that is exactly what all of the hype amounts to, really - they're people's views expert or not.
I mean the only things that ROLEX has been definitive with, with this particular model is that it's a 50th Anniversary model and that it's been discontinued.
If I was buying now, any priced over £8.5 would probably push me towards a YM Blue (much harder to trust provenance now), as I also own a 2 liner sub since '89 (which is just as good a watch, for purpose IMHO) and because of the knowledge I have from being an LV owner..... just my view.
Thanks for sharing, by the way.
T or B

I hope it didn't seem pejorative when I called it a "view" -- not the intention at all. They are indeed all as valid, just like votes (unfortunately!).

[Blingtone]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

I hope it didn't seem pejorative when I called it a "view" -- not the intention at all. They are indeed all as valid, just like votes (unfortunately!).

Yes the hype / views are indeed valid but NOT gospel - I for one would have to work very, very hard to justify parting with the premiums being asked to own a watch (that is basically a regular sub albeit with maxi dial, hands and an Anniversary bezel plus 2 extra letters on the warranty card / papers) nowadays. Having said that I would also never part with mine.

[fastfreddie]

Subaru’s and VW’s are real flat fours along with Jowet Javellins.