The case for buying above MSRP

[Tampashooter]

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

That’s funny, I find that people with money have it because they are very smart. And people with money tend have a discretionary reserve of no less than around $50K just for things like vacations, theater tickets, sporting events, jewelry, dining, clothing, and other recreations where ROI isn’t a consideration or a concern.

The difference between MSRP + tax and current grey pricing on a BLRO or a 500C is about $8K, and on a SS sport model like a Submariner we are talking $3K. That’s what all the angst is about here. And if that’s a hardship for anyone I’d argue that they shouldn’t even be considering a luxury watch purchase until they have the financial stability to do so. It’s the people stretching every last dollar to get into a brand they can’t actually afford that are lacking smarts, not the ones with enough wealth to be indifferent about spending a premium.

So on target.

[ROLMARINER]

Originally Posted by dubins930

Because it is more available... more inc threads, more on grey sites... it’s not really a debate. It is already more available than from the first watch sold.

DavidSW, a good barometer I think, is at $18.6K brand new and $17.1K used for the SS Pepsi. A quick scan through Recon will show that those selling slightly below those prices are one-off flippers lacking the credibility of a grey dealer doing what they need to do to compete- lower their prices. If a flipper and a legitimate grey are at the same price, no one is going to buy from the flipper.

As far as availability now vs. first launch, we're in the ramp up period so of course one would expect Rolex to be shipping them and having more in circulation, but how many exactly? Do the math off of 1M watches made a year, how many are DJ's, DD's, OP's, and Ladies models, how many after that are PM, and how many after that are divided amongst Explorers, Submariners, Yacht-Masters, Sea Dwellers, Air Kings, Daytonas, Milgausses, and 8 other variants of GMT's and, what, does Rolex make 4,000 BLRO's a year? Perhaps 3,000?

Take the last 10 years worth of Submariner buyers and assume that half of them would be interested in an alternative to add to their collections with a cool colored bezel and an awesomely different bracelet, and are we looking at, what, 250,000 potential buyers for 5,000 BLRO's to be released between launch and next Christmas? Food for thought.

[praveen]

Originally Posted by frankfrazetta

Yep. Bought a snickered up exp II from a grey below MSRP in the last six months. Polar.

The Polar is awesome . Very versatile!

[Tampashooter]

"MSRP" is a useless, dumb number. Its a unicorn. Its a made up number that bears no relation to value. Everything is worth exactly what it sells for. Be it a hamburger or a Daytona.

If MSRP matters to you, I've saved more off of PM pieces between AD's and TS to buy every single "hot" piece at current prices and still come out WAY ahead.

The only people not willing to pay market on a ceramic Daytona or Pepsi, or whatever are people that are stretching to begin with, or have some sort of principle issue with Grey sellers. Which is silly. You're not affecting the grey market by your protest. You're simply not wearing the watch you want.

I find it amazing that people complain about markup, but are never concerned about sellers during markdowns.

The free market always works. Always.

[ROLMARINER]

Originally Posted by Tampashooter

So on target.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Tampashooter

"MSRP" is a useless, dumb number. Its a unicorn. Its a made up number that bears no relation to value. Everything is worth exactly what it sells for. Be it a hamburger or a Daytona.

If MSRP matters to you, I've saved more off of PM pieces between AD's and TS to buy every single "hot" piece at current prices and still come out WAY ahead.

The only people not willing to pay market on a ceramic Daytona or Pepsi, or whatever are people that are stretching to begin with, or have some sort of principle issue with Grey sellers. Which is silly. You're not affecting the grey market by your protest. You're simply not wearing the watch you want.

I find it amazing that people complain about markup, but are never concerned about sellers during markdowns.

The free market always works. Always.

Completely on target. And while no one wishes to pay more, the good in the current situation is that for the first time I can remember anyone can purchase any Rolex they want without pandering to an AD and have it in their possession the next morning. An important byproduct of the current situation is that higher prices act as a filter and ensure that the desired references wind up on the wrists of the most worthy enthusiasts.

[boogiebot]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Exactly. This is like worrying about mpg on a new Bentley purchase. I come from the conservative value system that if you can’t comfortably afford two, you don’t buy one. That way you don’t stress and worry about actually using that item. My most valuable and irreplaceable assets is my time. Money comes and goes but my time is not infinite. This is why I like the purity of buying from our trusted sellers. Proffessional and no games. That alone may be worth a premium to me.

Very interesting. So with this logic if one can’t comfortably afford to purchase 2 houses then he or she should not own one .


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[Uggi]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

It’s called sarcasm.
Don’t take it literally.

With spelling that bad we couldn't take it literally.

[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by Tampashooter

"MSRP" is a useless, dumb number. Its a unicorn. Its a made up number that bears no relation to value. Everything is worth exactly what it sells for. Be it a hamburger or a Daytona.

If MSRP matters to you, I've saved more off of PM pieces between AD's and TS to buy every single "hot" piece at current prices and still come out WAY ahead.

The only people not willing to pay market on a ceramic Daytona or Pepsi, or whatever are people that are stretching to begin with, or have some sort of principle issue with Grey sellers. Which is silly. You're not affecting the grey market by your protest. You're simply not wearing the watch you want.

I find it amazing that people complain about markup, but are never concerned about sellers during markdowns.

The free market always works. Always.

Quote of the year

I dont have a huge desire for hulk or the SS blro...I wont wear them. I just want them in my collection, and as of that, I want them at MSRP, but am willing to wait for it to pop up.

[DoDe]

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

.....a legitimate grey ......

[askdanny]

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[Tampashooter]

Originally Posted by Jean Melkanian

Paying MSRP is already a rip off, for any product in the world. Which is why discounting and sales is a worldwide phenomena on all goods in the world. By principle, some people refuse to be taken for sheep, especially on something like a watch. We are not kids who can't hold ourselves from buying a watch. If you have more than enough disposable income to feed a company already making huge profits on something by giving them even more, good for you! In the end, the grey dealers are taking advantage of your disposable money instead of it going to your children for instance.

Only a sucker thinks MSRP means anything. On any product. Like I said, MSRP is a made up number. It has zero bearing on anything, certainly not on any watch purchases I've made. Market is market.

Would I rather pay below market (MSRP) on certain pieces? Of course. And I have. I've also refused to pay MSRP, and bought pieces for thousands under MSRP. Because of the market.

MSRP is a number that the producer has decided they can attach to something that makes the retailer feel good and consistent about. Thats all.

[dubins930]

Originally Posted by Tampashooter

Only a sucker thinks MSRP means anything. On any product. Like I said, MSRP is a made up number. It has zero bearing on anything, certainly not on any watch purchases I've made. Market is market.

Would I rather pay below market (MSRP) on certain pieces? Of course. And I have. I've also refused to pay MSRP, and bought pieces for thousands under MSRP. Because of the market.

MSRP is a number that the producer has decided they can attach to something that makes the retailer feel good and consistent about. Thats all.

MSRP really is for suckers considering the scrap price of a SS Rolex is maybe 8 bucks

[peterpl]

Too many suckers feeding the gray market. This is leading to

1) ADs selling directly to grays creating a cartel like market and profits being split between ADs and Gray, which many times are related or have close relationships.

2) Individual scalpers and flippers wanting to feed on the hype and make easy money.

People need to understand these are MASS produced products over many many many years. ALL SS Rolex now is at its peak.

BLNR, Hulk, BLRO, SS SkyD all of them are selling at peak inflated prices. These are not worth their asking prices and they are NOT rare when there are 1000s upon 1000s upon 1000s circulating in the public.

[Homo Sapien X]

Originally Posted by peterpl

Too many suckers feeding the gray market. This is leading to

1) ADs selling directly to grays creating a cartel like market and profits being split between ADs and Gray, which many times are related or have close relationships.

2) Individual scalpers and flippers wanting to feed on the hype and make easy money.

People need to understand these are MASS produced products over many many many years. ALL SS Rolex now is at its peak.

BLNR, Hulk, BLRO, SS SkyD all of them are selling at peak inflated prices. These are not worth their asking prices and they are NOT rare when there are 1000s upon 1000s upon 1000s circulating in the public.

Grey dealers are snapping up stocks bundling with unpopular models like airkings, datejusts and even gold sub. Until these dealers stop buying , the list will just keep getting longer.

I realise many grey dealers are offering some unpopular models BNIB below MSRP.


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[Godfather111]

If I were dying, and only had a few months left to live, then maybe I'd consider getting scalped...

but then if I were dying, trinkets like these would be meaningless, and the farthest thing on my mind...

So, no.

[avega357]

Love it


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[Token74]

Originally Posted by pinkelle21

If you buy above msrp you have more money than smarts

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Not necessarily. For instance, if you paid 10% over MSRP for a new Daytona 116500 right now, you could sell it at a hefty profit the next day!

Things aren’t always so black and white.


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[AK797]

Originally Posted by boogiebot

Very interesting. So with this logic if one can’t comfortably afford to purchase 2 houses then he or she should not own one .


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This applies to luxury toys, not essentials. Mortgages are standard for the vast majority, even the wealthy.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by askdanny

Obviously, the ideal Rolex steel-sports purchase is at a duty-free Rolex AD -- at the airport for example. But legally you should be declaring the purchase as you go through customs in your country anyway. (And the odds that the watch is available as you make your way through the airport are slim.)

So realistically, you buy at a local AD where you'll pay full price plus sales tax. In many big cities like Chicago, New York, or Los Angeles, you'll pay close to 10% in sales tax. In many countries in Europe, we're talking 20%. On a Hulk, Daytona, or Pepsi this is big money.

There is no telling when the watch will be available at your AD, and what the sales tax or MSRP will be at when the watch is available, as waiting lists are not made public. The only thing you know is that there will be no discount. With time, MSRP and sales tax are likely to go up, not down. Sales taxes are less unpopular than property taxes because it is a consumer tax. Americans are often cash-poor but land-rich. So sales taxes are more likely to be approved or voted on to bolster state coffers. Rolex MSRP can only go up, as I believe Rolex steel-sports models are currently underpriced; I believe the new movements will be the justification for the price increase.

Online grey dealers are not currently under the obligation to charge sales tax. This might soon change as Internet sales taxes are falling under more scrutiny because brick-and-mortars complain they can't compete. I predict online sellers in all industries will be made responsible for charging sales tax at checkout. Currently online grey dealers will offer no sales tax and free overnight shipping. (I'm not a grey dealer, just a Rolex lover.)

If Rolex shortage is mostly due to increased demand, and more people than ever in the history of the world have the financial wherewithal to buy into such an aspirational brand -- whose reputation constantly ranks first -- the shortage might get worse, not better. I heard Rolex is increasing output, but I don't think we've seen the peak demand yet -- and demand will continue to outpace supply.

Do you want to wait one or two more years for that hard-to-get Rolex and roll the dice to save $500, $1000 or even $2000 depending on the model? MSRP and sales tax are both such unknown variables that paying "grey prices" now can make sense. Plus, in two years, who knows what the market value will be. The Daytona didn't jump straight from $12,000 to $22,000. But it has relentlessly gone up and is standing at $22,000 now.

So go buy that Hulk or BLNR and enjoy them now!

While there are those willing to pay these crazy prices and where on internet forums its advertised several times day, what these asking prices on the grey market are bringing. Afraid many Rolex will be bought and flipped to the grey market,today Rolex are no longer watches they are now thought of as little more than ££££$$$$.

[S-F]

If you try hard enough, you can justify just about anything

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by Uggi

With spelling that bad we couldn't take it literally.

Damn “e” v “o” when speed typing.
Yeah, can see how that can make a world of difference.

[Uggi]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Damn “e” v “o” when speed typing.
Yeah, can see how that can make a world of difference.

It's called sarcasm.
Don't take it literally.

[S-F]

Originally Posted by Token74

Not necessarily. For instance, if you paid 10% over MSRP for a new Daytona 116500 right now, you could sell it at a hefty profit the next day!

Things aren’t always so black and white.


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You could, assuming the current economic climate stays exactly the same. What happens when more supply is released or the economy has a small hiccup?

Things aren't always so black and white :)

[Token74]

Originally Posted by S-F

You could, assuming the current economic climate stays exactly the same. What happens when more supply is released or the economy has a small hiccup?



Things aren't always so black and white :)

Supply and economic climate are both likely to stay the same for the 24 hours I mentioned


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[VicLeChic]

If I really really have to have the watch, I could go as far as paying a 20% premium over retail. What I like sells for 90% over retail right now, so I'll wait for the call from the AD.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by boogiebot

Very interesting. So with this logic if one can’t comfortably afford to purchase 2 houses then he or she should not own one .


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Applies to luxury goods and not life essentials. I wouldn’t become “house poor” by buying too much house I couldn’t afford. I am not a 30yr mortgage kind of guy. I like to own everything.

[ROLMARINER]

Originally Posted by peterpl

People need to understand these are MASS produced products over many many many years. ALL SS Rolex now is at its peak.

BLNR, Hulk, BLRO, SS SkyD all of them are selling at peak inflated prices. These are not worth their asking prices and they are NOT rare when there are 1000s upon 1000s upon 1000s circulating in the public.

There's that "mass produced" cliche again.

It doesn't mean anything when there are only a fraction being manufactured compared to demand. If Rolex makes 35,000 GMT's a year I'd be shocked, and with 9 different configurations I'd estimate they probably only make 3,000 BLRO's.

There are probably 2,500,000 Rolex owners who would gleefully take one at MSRP and therefore likely 750,000 Rolex owners who would pay a premium.

As a point of reference, Apple has produced and sold 63 Million iPhone X's. BLRO "mass produced". LOL. Nope.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by Uggi

It's called sarcasm.
Don't take it literally.

I know.
So was my last response.

[DP63]

There are only 2 reasons for paying over MSRP.

1, You want it NOW!!!

2, You are prepared to pay the asking price.

Everything else is just noise.

[Uggi]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

I know.
So was my last response.

hahah