Why do we own watches with automatic movements?

[KeobNepo]

I love the ticking of the heart of the automatic. It’s a stunning piece of engineering which kind of lives, without any electronic source.

It ticks 8 times a second, that’s 691.200 ticks a day and will keep ticking for decades. It’s really a little miracle.

Still trying to understand the technique and learning how it works. Watched tons of videos explaining it, but not quite there yet…

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[andschmi]

A very good question to which I don’t know the answer. I definitely feel different but why I can’t tell.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by KeobNepo

I love the ticking of the heart of the automatic. It’s a stunning piece of engineering which kind of lives, without any electronic source.

It ticks 8 times a second, that’s 691.200 ticks a day and will keep ticking for decades. It’s really a little miracle.

Still trying to understand the technique and learning how it works. Watched tons of videos explaining it, but not quite there yet…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A Seiko Lord Marvel, Longines Ultra-Chron or Girard Perregaux Gyromatic - all from the 1960s - tick 10 times a second, or 36,000 times per hour. I've had several Lord Marvels and they've all been accurate to within a few seconds a day. Worth looking at if you like mechanical movements.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by BillA

Why do we own watches with automatic movements?

Is it because the watch manufactures make them, charge more than quartz and say they are better quality?

With our automatic movement Rolex watches, we set them down a few days, they stop, we reset, many enthusiasts just don’t reset but reset to Time.Gov or another service.

I recently bought and returned an automatic Shinola as a gift for a family member. Of course when I got it, I wound it, set it to Time.Gov and the next day noticed it was off by a big margin. I called the company and chatted with them and got three different answers anywhere from +/- 1 minute per day to 15 seconds per day within their spec. Now I realize it is a fraction of the cost of a Rolex, but still 1 minute per day or even 15 seconds per day is not good.

We get angry when our watches don’t keep good time. Let’s be honest all the automatic movements are off after a few days. If you can live with that, fine, but many enthusiasts want accuracy. Hey, we paid a lot of money for a Rolex watch.

I have been thinking about this recently. I bought a Breitling Endurance Pro recently, it is quartz movement. I set it to Time.Gov and a few days later I checked it. It was spot on! So now I am thinking I have a beautiful time piece and it keeps accurate time all the time, so why do I want an automatic watch?

To hand-wind any movement only take a few seconds most of the older Rolex hand-winds have a reserve of 38 to 42 hours. Myself did have two OPs from the late 1960s my sons wear them now most days,40 years old and still beating strong. Both have had just normal stem tubes service twice if I remember in there life and both have there original crowns .Automatics in reality made us all lazy press button for this and that, must have this faster bigger etc. But a automatic movement is only a hand wound movement with a automatic mechanism fitted, hand-winds are far simpler and less things to go wrong. But today many buy watches like Rolex just to wear the brand, and worry and fret over the slightest scratch or if a second or so over stated spec.

But a hand-wound movement "lives" because you actively want it to run . you sort of breathe life into it, and you have to do it on purpose. I think that's an entirely different attitude toward a watch than merely picking it up and find it working. And knowing that it will continue to do so without additional intervention by yourself. And IMHO makes you just part of the soul of the watch, plus I like having to wind it each day, to keep its heart beating.

When I pick up one of my hand-winds and wind it, the whole process, the act of winding, just seems to have a sense of history and tradition to it. This makes hand-winds special to me. I can imagine my grandfather, and his father, and his father's father performing the same daily ritual, it's a connection to the past horology speaking.


An automatic movement runs just because of gravity and the fact that you are not dead and still, and are moving alive and kicking to speak. Or as long as the electric winder machine thing doesn't stop or burn out. In that sense now especially on a machine winder, I find automatic movements sometimes as "soul-less" as quartz, when compared to a true hand-wound movement. One might argue that an automatic movement on a winder is not so much "alive" as permanently undergoing gentle resuscitation. I for one deplore the demise of the hand-wound movements.

[vesnyder]

RE: quartz watches, I’ll take it a step further. Why not get an Apple Watch then? It’s even more accurate than a quartz watch, it even knows what time zone you’re in, and resets itself it for daylight savings time. You never have to re-set the date, and it’s a perpetual calendar too.

I agree. I own all of the above - quartz, mechanical and Apple watch - but I feel most connected to my mechanical watches. The power and function is directly connected to me.

[77T]

Originally Posted by padi56

To hand-wind any movement only take a few seconds most of the older Rolex hand-winds have a reserve of 38 to 42 hours. Myself did have two OPs from the late 1960s my sons wear them now most days,40 years old and still beating strong. Both have had just normal stem tubes service twice if I remember in there life and both have there original crowns .Automatics in reality made us all lazy press button for this and that, must have this faster bigger etc. But a automatic movement is only a hand wound movement with a automatic mechanism fitted, hand-winds are far simpler and less things to go wrong. But today many buy watches like Rolex just to wear the brand, and worry and fret over the slightest scratch or if a second or so over stated spec.

But a hand-wound movement "lives" because you actively want it to run . you sort of breathe life into it, and you have to do it on purpose. I think that's an entirely different attitude toward a watch than merely picking it up and find it working. And knowing that it will continue to do so without additional intervention by yourself. And IMHO makes you just part of the soul of the watch, plus I like having to wind it each day, to keep its heart beating.

When I pick up one of my hand-winds and wind it, the whole process, the act of winding, just seems to have a sense of history and tradition to it. This makes hand-winds special to me. I can imagine my grandfather, and his father, and his father's father performing the same daily ritual, it's a connection to the past horology speaking.


An automatic movement runs just because of gravity and the fact that you are not dead and still, and are moving alive and kicking to speak. Or as long as the electric winder machine thing doesn't stop or burn out. In that sense now especially on a machine winder, I find automatic movements sometimes as "soul-less" as quartz, when compared to a true hand-wound movement. One might argue that an automatic movement on a winder is not so much "alive" as permanently undergoing gentle resuscitation. I for one deplore the demise of the hand-wound movements.

I think someone at Rolex must have felt the same way when they designed and launched the Veriflat model with a manual movement but an Oyster case. It was in the midst of the bubbleback era that the pen was put to paper methinks.

Automatics had taken over the market - Perpetual was an amazing thing.

The push button” reference is apt.
IIRC, Zenith (the TV Zenith, not the Horology Zenith) was flooding living rooms with the famous remote control that added girth to all developed country’s Home-Dwellers…



Patek’s Calatrava with under 8mm thinness probably led Rolex to that decision too.


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[NachoNeal]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

That's easier than changing straps, and it's once every few years.

True but if you have five watches that's five times as much hassle.

[donq]

I have an automatic watch so I can wear it all week and not have to wind it.

I have quartz watches, but they are cheap beater types.

I can’t really bring myself to spend a lot of money on something that runs off a battery.

Is this an irrational judgement call based on personal and unexplored prejudices? More than likely.

[Nav01L]

I think we like mechanical watches despite their obvious technological inferiority because we “get” mechanical watches. When you show us an automatic or a Tour billion or even a chronograph, if you put your mind to it you can easily understand what does what and then be duly impressed by the folks that so aptly put it together. Electricity is a whole other beast. Most of us don’t quite fathom what has to happen for that Quartz to get excited and give the time. On top of that, even if we did, it’s the original development that would impress us, not the beautiful execution on the particular piece we’d be holding, as that would just be a printed circuit like any other. Same reason really that a M177 AMG V8 is more impressive that a Tesla.

[Old Geezer]

I only wore my quartz watches until the battery died and then they usually ended up in a junk drawer. I never "get around" to getting a battery replaced. I think Citizen's Eco-drive is genius and it's my only battery powered watch that has not been relegated to the junk drawer.

[BLNR Nairobi]

Originally Posted by Dave455

Quartz watches don’t suit everyone.

I fly professionally, and wore a quartz chronograph for years as a flying instructor. Loved it, and never let me down.

But…, flying big old turboprops it was a different story. Walking round the aircraft, If I put my wrist with my watch into the hydraulic bay while the other pilot was checking the hydraulic pumps, my watch would regularly wind back by about 20 minutes, obviously due to induced currents.

Telling the tale in the crewroom, the old guys with the IWC’s, the Lemania chronographs, and the battered Rolex Turn O Graphs just smile…! I might as well have been telling them how good beer tastes…!

Interesting. Thanks for the post. Didn’t know about that effect.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Dave455

Quartz watches don’t suit everyone.

I fly professionally, and wore a quartz chronograph for years as a flying instructor. Loved it, and never let me down.

But…, flying big old turboprops it was a different story. Walking round the aircraft, If I put my wrist with my watch into the hydraulic bay while the other pilot was checking the hydraulic pumps, my watch would regularly wind back by about 20 minutes, obviously due to induced currents.

I am really surprised to hear this, I am not doubting you for a second, but I wore a quartz for that exact reason. While my GMT 2 was safely stored away, I had a Seiko quartz while at sea. I stuck my hand in plenty of compartments on the Hornet, and on the deck of the carrier there was enough EM flying around to fry an egg (it fried my Sony walkman more then once! ). Plus, it was cool back in the 80s for all us jet jocks to wear a quartz. You know, come to think of it, the hot watch back then was a Breitling. There were some nice ones guys bought when we pulled in to Hong Kong or Singapore.

[BillA]

So the follow up question to my original post is: Does it cost the watch manufacturer that much more money to make a mechanical movement vs. a quality quartz movement?
From what they charge, you would think so, but I am not sure of that.

I think one of the reasons I started this thread is because I cannot get a automatic Rolex from an AD at retail price. I have no relationship as many share this position. Personally, I will not pay over list price for a Rolex. That is me, others can spend their monies as they wish.

[RFC]

For me a mechanical watch is like a manual transmission or art…it’s the art, innovation, and skill of humans at their best.

[Dave455]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

I am really surprised to hear this, I am not doubting you for a second, but I wore a quartz for that exact reason. While my GMT 2 was safely stored away, I had a Seiko quartz while at sea. I stuck my hand in plenty of compartments on the Hornet, and on the deck of the carrier there was enough EM flying around to fry an egg (it fried my Sony walkman more then once! ). Plus, it was cool back in the 80s for all us jet jocks to wear a quartz. You know, come to think of it, the hot watch back then was a Breitling. There were some nice ones guys bought when we pulled in to Hong Kong or Singapore.

I was surprised too! First time I thought my battery was dying and changed it. Second time I thought my watch needed a service. I think it was the third time I actually saw the hands move and realised the problem.

I say it happened regularly, but 3 times over maybe 9 months, and could never replicate it. I assume the Hornet has engine driven hydraulic pumps? Ours were electric. Can’t recall the current now, but hefty. Never resolved if the problem occurred when the pumps were on, or only when they were switched on.

Bought a Sinn 756 and wore it for the rest of my time on that aircraft. Almost perfect watch for that job. Worn quartz watches operating other types (useful in oceanic airspace) with no issues. Sorry about the walkman..

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

I am really surprised to hear this, I am not doubting you for a second, but I wore a quartz for that exact reason. While my GMT 2 was safely stored away, I had a Seiko quartz while at sea. I stuck my hand in plenty of compartments on the Hornet, and on the deck of the carrier there was enough EM flying around to fry an egg (it fried my Sony walkman more then once! ). Plus, it was cool back in the 80s for all us jet jocks to wear a quartz. You know, come to think of it, the hot watch back then was a Breitling. There were some nice ones guys bought when we pulled in to Hong Kong or Singapore.

I don't know about the cool factor, but I'm pretty sure that back in the 80's everybody had a quartz watch at one time or another. The world was different then and a quartz watch was standard unless you worked on Wall Street or something like that, which I may have seen in a movie

Arnie was wearing a quartz watch in Commando and even James Bond had a dalliance with the technology.
Just about all the popular music was laced with techno elements.
Not to mention the Oyster quartz

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by padi56

To hand-wind any movement only take a few seconds most of the older Rolex hand-winds have a reserve of 38 to 42 hours. Myself did have two OPs from the late 1960s my sons wear them now most days,40 years old and still beating strong. Both have had just normal stem tubes service twice if I remember in there life and both have there original crowns .Automatics in reality made us all lazy press button for this and that, must have this faster bigger etc. But a automatic movement is only a hand wound movement with a automatic mechanism fitted, hand-winds are far simpler and less things to go wrong. But today many buy watches like Rolex just to wear the brand, and worry and fret over the slightest scratch or if a second or so over stated spec.

But a hand-wound movement "lives" because you actively want it to run . you sort of breathe life into it, and you have to do it on purpose. I think that's an entirely different attitude toward a watch than merely picking it up and find it working. And knowing that it will continue to do so without additional intervention by yourself. And IMHO makes you just part of the soul of the watch, plus I like having to wind it each day, to keep its heart beating.

When I pick up one of my hand-winds and wind it, the whole process, the act of winding, just seems to have a sense of history and tradition to it. This makes hand-winds special to me. I can imagine my grandfather, and his father, and his father's father performing the same daily ritual, it's a connection to the past horology speaking.


An automatic movement runs just because of gravity and the fact that you are not dead and still, and are moving alive and kicking to speak. Or as long as the electric winder machine thing doesn't stop or burn out. In that sense now especially on a machine winder, I find automatic movements sometimes as "soul-less" as quartz, when compared to a true hand-wound movement. One might argue that an automatic movement on a winder is not so much "alive" as permanently undergoing gentle resuscitation. I for one deplore the demise of the hand-wound movements.

Hand wound are not dead yet Peter.
The last two i bought are hand winders and probably the next one will be as well as the ultimate retirement gift to myself. I wouldn't have it any other way.

The Automatic movements are perfectly suited to anything with a screw down crown.
I think that's always where old Hans was headed when they made sure they scooped up all the key technologies needed to make the ultimate waterproof wristwatch with outstanding reliability. The perfect suite of technologies which literally set Rolex up

[inadeje]

This is one of the better posts that I have read in a while, thanks OP. I guess the answer to the enigma is our age. Most of us emanate from an age when automatic movements were the true connoisseurs watches. This reality hasn’t changed. We recall the quartz invasion back in the 80s and how everyone (including the swiss watchmakers) thought that the mechanical movements were a dying breed. We’ve had G-Shocks, Apple Watches and hybrid mechanical/quartz like the spring drive, yet we still consider the automatic mechanical watch a work of art. In many ways it still is a true engineering feat, even after 100 or so years. Thats why they’re here to stay and will continue to be coveted by those who seek something with true historical value and old school legacy. Many things will finally return. i for one seek an analogue light weight car with high power and low weight, devoid of screens and completely free from electronics. Right now the only way to get this is buying a “classic” car of 25 years or older. Some day soon a manufacturer will turn back the hands of time and build a car for people like me.

At the end of the day we derive pleasure from pursuits. Driving used to be challenging and driving well required a lot of practice. Watches have a mystique about them when they offer a similar old school technology.

[Singslinger]

Originally Posted by 7enderbender

If you have to ask you don’t get it and maybe never will. It’s for the same reasons we own cars with manual transmission (I do and will never have anything else), fountain pens, analog film cameras, and many other marvels of traditional precision engineering. Those are art forms that are slowly getting lost (and still being perfected in small pockets of excellence).
Yes, nobody actually needs a watch at all these days since we’re all carrying cell phones that have the processing power of many times the computer that brought men to the moon. Yet the mechanical watch that saved the Apollo 13 mission still goes nicely along with it for instance. In fact, I’d rather toss my iPhone than my mechanical watches. It’s actually a thought that has seriously crossed my mind lately. Get a simple small flip phone for calls and text and be done with the 24h madness and distractions. I’ve already killed off all social media with the exception of a few old fashioned forums like this one where you’re still anonymous. And cable TV is gone too. My life has improved. The 24h news cycle and mass hysteria is bringing us down. Guess what, when you check “the news” several hours later the world is still going down the drain. And the junk accumulating in my inbox can also wait.
I’m on my way back from a week long of hiking and climbing in my watches’ homeland. Things are still slower here but not all backwards.
I can live with a few seconds over the course of a month that need resetting.

Best reply of all!