New Lange Zeitwerk Release

[Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

*Sigh*

How to describe this without seeming bitter?

I own a Lange 1 Platinum Moonphase, bought from the AD that runs the local Lange Boutique. A few days after the Odysseus launch (when it was still being slaughtered on forums and in the press) I happened to pass the boutique and stopped in on the off-chance they’d have a demonstrator. Turns out it was the day of the local press junket, and one of the interviewers was late. I spent a pleasant half an hour with the Lange CEO, discussing the company and the Odysseus itself, and even handled and tried on his own personal watch. As the interviewer showed up and we said our farewells, I was asked if I would like to put my name down, which I eagerly did. I loved the watch.

Fast forward several months and watches began being delivered in our locale. Having heard nothing, I contacted the boutique. They checked with Lange, and I was point-blank turned down. No “We were surprised by demand”, no “you can have one but it may be a wait”; no excuse or explanation at all. Even the personal meeting with Wilhelm Schmid, and being an existing pre-Odysseus customer, mattered for nought. No apology was forthcoming either.

Seems like you received bad customer experience or lack of emotional intelligence by the SA of the boutique/AD... in the way that we hear all sorts of BS from Rolex ADs.

Was it a phone call or just an email exchange? If they were that curt with me on phone I'd be put off, as well. How did you end up acquiring the piece?

[mongrelnomoad]

I didn’t acquire the piece.

It was a very pleasant (and optimistic) series of calls with the AD until the final answer arrived. According to the AD it was Lange in Glasshutte that refused my order, with no recourse.

I know when I am not wanted, and so left it at that. No piece of wrist jewellery is worth begging for.

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

*Sigh*

How to describe this without seeming bitter?

I own a Lange 1 Platinum Moonphase, bought from the AD that runs the local Lange Boutique. A few days after the Odysseus launch (when it was still being slaughtered on forums and in the press) I happened to pass the boutique and stopped in on the off-chance they’d have a demonstrator. Turns out it was the day of the local press junket, and one of the interviewers was late. I spent a pleasant half an hour with the Lange CEO, discussing the company and the Odysseus itself, and even handled and tried on his own personal watch. As the interviewer showed up and we said our farewells, I was asked if I would like to put my name down, which I eagerly did. I loved the watch.

Fast forward several months and watches began being delivered in our locale. Having heard nothing, I contacted the boutique. They checked with Lange, and I was point-blank turned down. No “We were surprised by demand”, no “you can have one but it may be a wait”; no excuse or explanation at all. Even the personal meeting with Wilhelm Schmid, and being an existing pre-Odysseus customer, mattered for nought. No apology was forthcoming either.

I still love the Odysseus, but after being treated with such disdain, will never be purchasing a Lange again.

Lange CEO Wilhelm Shmid's personal Odysseus on my wrist:

Don't worry man! I believe all of us here have our own bitter experience with shitty ADs. I appreciate your explanation. The reason I asked is to understand how big headed brands have become and have forgotten customers who supported them when things were less rosy before.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by HMHM

The reason I asked is to understand how big headed brands have become and have forgotten customers who supported them when things were less rosy before.

Great point!

I remember those days. PP 3939 repeaters on sale for $180k, etc. Aquanauts for $12k, before that for $8k got you a Nautilus. But then we all know their frontman changed and it was downhill ever since. Sadly, ALS seems to be following suit.

We need to remember some of these once-prestegious indepenant companies have since been purchased by conglomerates, or changed leadership with their own business schemes. Heck, it may all depend on their PR market goals... constant releases of 'limited editions' catered to ensure customer FOMO and high profits. Barnum was right of course.

Some 'limited editions' are prearranged so all are presold, so once again it's pure PR and nothing more really. The recent Richemont Hot Wheels release comes to mind here. jmho

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Great point!

I remember those days. PP 3939 repeaters on sale for $180k, etc. Aquanauts for $12k, before that for $8k got you a Nautilus. But then we all know their frontman changed and it was downhill ever since. Sadly, ALS seems to be following suit.

We need to remember some of these once-prestegious indepenant companies have since been purchased by conglomerates, or changed leadership with their own business schemes. Heck, it may all depend on their PR market goals... constant releases of 'limited editions' catered to ensure customer FOMO and high profits. Barnum was right of course.

Some 'limited editions' are prearranged so all are presold, so once again it's pure PR and nothing more really. The recent Richemont Hot Wheels release comes to mind here. jmho

We don’t even have to go that far back. Look at VC and their LE orange strap that was apparently only reserved for VIPs, the sold out allocation of the VCO ‘Everest’. In 2019 VCO were still available with a discount…experiences like the one described will be a good tale to look back when things change.

[GreenLantern]

The whole watch industry has become one big joke.

If you aren't already a VVIP, there's no path to becoming a VVIP, even if you were previously / are currently a VIP. Just one V, not VVIP enough!

Patek and Rolex are still squarely in the hands of ADs, so my beef is more with those who have shifted significantly (or exclusively) towards the corporate boutique model. I do have beefs with a lot of ADs, though, so Rolex & Patek are not off the hook.

AP, RM, Lange, VC, JLC, IWC, Panerai, etc. It's all a joke.

[GreenLantern]

And yes, even Panerai is playing these games.

Panerai.

Think about that for a sec.

(Disclaimer: Despite the negativity around Panerai and their "in-house" movements, I still love a lot of the pieces they put out. So, I'm actually a fan, despite what I said above.)

[Dancing Fire]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

*Sigh*


Lange CEO Wilhelm Shmid's personal Odysseus on my wrist:

And you gave it back to him???

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

And yes, even Panerai is playing these games.

Panerai.

Think about that for a sec.

(Disclaimer: Despite the negativity around Panerai and their "in-house" movements, I still love a lot of the pieces they put out. So, I'm actually a fan, despite what I said above.)

Bob at their Naples FL location has been wonderful. Service times have been excellent too. Like you, even with all the controversy, I still enjoy the style. The 42 Bronzo should be here by Xmas to complete my PAM collection.

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by Dancing Fire

And you gave it back to him???

Lol. As I understood at that point, I’d have my own in a few months!

[sophiadavid]

This watch is so classy.

[Ichiran]

Anyone here manage to get an allocation? Russell?

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Anyone here manage to get an allocation? Russell?

I believe Russell was one of the first to receive an Odysseus in the UK.

Edit: Sorry, thought we were on the Odysseus. Don't mind me. Good luck with the Zeitwork. My feelings towards the brand notwithstanding, it's a knockout watch.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

I believe Russell was one of the first to receive an Odysseus in the UK.

Edit: Sorry, thought we were on the Odysseus. Don't mind me. Good luck with the Zeitwork. My feelings towards the brand notwithstanding, it's a knockout watch.

No worries at all
The Boutique here requires significant bundling regardless of prior purchase history for the Zeitwerk lumen. For someone with no Boutique history like me, I wasn't even given the chance to make that bundle.

It is almost like a "silent auction" now between some big collectors here

[Longhorn]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

The whole watch industry has become one big joke.

If you aren't already a VVIP, there's no path to becoming a VVIP, even if you were previously / are currently a VIP. Just one V, not VVIP enough!

Patek and Rolex are still squarely in the hands of ADs, so my beef is more with those who have shifted significantly (or exclusively) towards the corporate boutique model. I do have beefs with a lot of ADs, though, so Rolex & Patek are not off the hook.

AP, RM, Lange, VC, JLC, IWC, Panerai, etc. It's all a joke.

My experience with AP's boutique was interesting. After visiting them, they told me any RO allocation 15450 and on was unlikely as a first piece, and I've been offered 2 Code 11.59s to 'start a relationship with the brand'. Imagine feeling privileged for an allocation by buying a watch for twice the cost of the one you actually wanted.

Lange for the 1815 chrono boutique edition, i was told this was one of those pieces that I needed spend history to get. I asked how much spend history do they need and they said they didn't know and would ask. Later that day they say call me back saying I didn't need spend history, but I'd have to wait likely a year before they get another one, and that another boutique in the US has been waiting 18 months to get one. Meanwhile a friend in Melbourne had one sitting in the case that he was contemplating buying. the SA also said they'd text me photos of what they have to see if anything interested me... never got a text.

Patek AD didn't have anything to sell me lol and not even offering anything that may of be of interest. I asked for a 5205g and they said they had several ahead of me and Patek is struggling with making the blue dials... no timetable for pieces coming in, almost as if it wasn't worth asking anymore.

Gronefeld lists closed, De Bethune lists closed, FP Journe nothing until 2023 for a new customer. MB&F - hey they said i could get a RG/WG LM101 a second half of 2022, if I send them a 50% deposit upfront. So that's something. It used to feel a lot more rewarding to buy and collect these objects but now customer service is borderline non-existent and doesn't feel awesome as before to spend 10s of thousands. Now I just stand posted behind my window to sign for a Fedex package.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

It is almost like a "silent auction" now between some big collectors here

I'm waiting for it to turn into Fight Club

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Longhorn

My experience with AP's boutique was interesting. After visiting them, they told me any RO allocation 15450 and on was unlikely as a first piece, and I've been offered 2 Code 11.59s to 'start a relationship with the brand'. Imagine feeling privileged for an allocation by buying a watch for twice the cost of the one you actually wanted.

Lange for the 1815 chrono boutique edition, i was told this was one of those pieces that I needed spend history to get. I asked how much spend history do they need and they said they didn't know and would ask. Later that day they say call me back saying I didn't need spend history, but I'd have to wait likely a year before they get another one, and that another boutique in the US has been waiting 18 months to get one. Meanwhile a friend in Melbourne had one sitting in the case that he was contemplating buying. the SA also said they'd text me photos of what they have to see if anything interested me... never got a text.

Patek AD didn't have anything to sell me lol and not even offering anything that may of be of interest. I asked for a 5205g and they said they had several ahead of me and Patek is struggling with making the blue dials... no timetable for pieces coming in, almost as if it wasn't worth asking anymore.

Gronefeld lists closed, De Bethune lists closed, FP Journe nothing until 2023 for a new customer. MB&F - hey they said i could get a RG/WG LM101 a second half of 2022, if I send them a 50% deposit upfront. So that's something. It used to feel a lot more rewarding to buy and collect these objects but now customer service is borderline non-existent and doesn't feel awesome as before to spend 10s of thousands. Now I just stand posted behind my window to sign for a Fedex package.

Thank you for sharing these experiences.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The whole industry has become a joke. The hype surrounding watches with the "general population" has made it an even bigger joke. Stop using watches as "investments" or in the same vein as the latest hot crypto.

What's left for us to collect? Longines?

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

No worries at all
The Boutique here requires significant bundling regardless of prior purchase history for the Zeitwerk lumen. For someone with no Boutique history like me, I wasn't even given the chance to make that bundle.

What a joke.

I wish brands would realize that this is an admission that the other references in your product portfolio are "trash" that no one wants.

Stop wasting precious watchmaker skills and resources on "trash."

Yes, I'm harsh in calling those references "trash" and I do apologize if it's offensive to some but someone's got to connect the dots here. Disclaimer: I actually own, love, wear, and cherish some of this "trash" so I'm not commenting on the quality of the craftsmanship, simply the implication that the act of bundling as a requirement presents.

[Yobrooks]

It is really a shame that ALS requires bundling and, as an earlier post noted, the high end internet sites l ( Chrono24) are filled with brand new pieces that were forced upon ALS buyers who wish to obtain an Odysseus or other limited production pieces. Grey marked Prices for these Lange 1's, 1815's etc have plummeted as a result- in fact many haven't moved in months. The only ones who benefit from this crazy market are Independents that still have inventory ( ie Moser). "Wait list City" coming to a theater near you.

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by cantdrive55

I’m a definite Lange fan and own several pieces - but for $55k more than the base Zeitwerk, they’re offering honey gold, a lumen dial and twice the power reserve - no complications. I think $145k is high for a time only piece, when compared to the sub $100k time only Richard Lange that has the Pour le Mérite movement, or the complicated Triple Split, for just another $20k more than this reference.

But in the words of the comedian, Dennis Miller: That’s just my opinion - and I could be wrong.

Not to mention, the first version of the this Zeitwerk was under 100k and only 100 were made and it was in platinum. Sort of insulting, but I haven't really been into much of anything Lange has put out lately except the Zeitwerk (which was an albatross to sell without huge losses until COVID-19), and the Odysseus is horrendously homely looking to me, so no big loss.

Pour le Mérite Tourbillon 1st releases were gorgeous, but what a bath we who bought the rose gold model took... rofl

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

I'm waiting for it to turn into Fight Club

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

What a joke.

Mike from Watchbox said he is receiving multiple texts/calls/emails from those customers who have bundled the Zeitwerk Lumen with tourbillon, datograph, and repeaters.

The silent auction is real. :)

[vh2k]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Mike from Watchbox said he is receiving multiple texts/calls/emails from those customers who have bundled the Zeitwerk Lumen with tourbillon, datograph, and repeaters.

He really blasted ALS for this bundling because WB has been working hard (gobbling up pieces) to drive long-term secondary market prices higher. Last thing he wants is hundreds of customers dumping ALS quickly to fund a grand complication purchase. His suggestion is to reward the VIPs who have already spent $1MM on ALS — as that keeps short-term secondary values stable or increasing. Fair point.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Mike from Watchbox said he is receiving multiple texts/calls/emails from those customers who have bundled the Zeitwerk Lumen with tourbillon, datograph, and repeaters.

The silent auction is real. :)

Originally Posted by vh2k

He really blasted ALS for this bundling because WB has been working hard (gobbling up pieces) to drive long-term secondary market prices higher. Last thing he wants is hundreds of customers dumping ALS quickly to fund a grand complication purchase. His suggestion is to reward the VIPs who have already spent $1MM on ALS — as that keeps short-term secondary values stable or increasing. Fair point.

Feels like ALS is three years behind the times now (with respect to this bundling strategy).

Maybe they didn't get the memo that Patek and Rolex did this 3-5 years ago.

[Yobrooks]

This overt bundling crap leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. Patek is not anywhere near as obnoxious as Al's with respect to this practice. I've gotten aquanauts without having to bundle anything. I was just about to pull the trigger on a nice ALS but not anymore. I'll go with a haute horologic indy like Grönefeld or Grossmann... Incredible finishings, movements, unique dials, and importantly they care about and appreciate their clients. Additionally, their timepieces don't get crushed in the grey market for to oversupply of "bundled" pieces.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Yobrooks

This overt bundling crap leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. Patek is not anywhere near as obnoxious as Al's with respect to this practice. I've gotten aquanauts without having to bundle anything. I was just about to pull the trigger on a nice ALS but not anymore. I'll go with a haute horologic indy like Grönefeld or Grossmann... Incredible finishings, movements, unique dials, and importantly they care about and appreciate their clients. Additionally, their timepieces don't get crushed in the grey market for to oversupply of "bundled" pieces.

I could not agree more.

And, sadly, that's such a shame. ALS watches are top notch.

[Yobrooks]

I agree, it is a real shame. I wouldn't mind going on an honest wait list for a few years for a highly desired watch, but no way am I playing the bundle game, of well. I bet Richemont eventually changes their strategy, at least I how do. In the meantime... I'm looking forward to the brand new Grönefeld complication release in December. Cheers.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Yobrooks

I agree, it is a real shame. I wouldn't mind going on an honest wait list for a few years for a highly desired watch, but no way am I playing the bundle game, of well. I bet Richemont eventually changes their strategy, at least I how do. In the meantime... I'm looking forward to the brand new Grönefeld complication release in December. Cheers.

Agreed. I've waited 6 years for a single watch before, and would easily do it again (it was a Roger Smith).

Factoring in the latest VC release (the Everest Overseas), Richemont is definitely going down the wrong path. A path that most other brands realized was not the right path several years ago.

Behind the times. Behind the times.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

*Sigh*

How to describe this without seeming bitter?

I own a Lange 1 Platinum Moonphase, bought from the AD that runs the local Lange Boutique. A few days after the Odysseus launch (when it was still being slaughtered on forums and in the press) I happened to pass the boutique and stopped in on the off-chance they’d have a demonstrator. Turns out it was the day of the local press junket, and one of the interviewers was late. I spent a pleasant half an hour with the Lange CEO, discussing the company and the Odysseus itself, and even handled and tried on his own personal watch. As the interviewer showed up and we said our farewells, I was asked if I would like to put my name down, which I eagerly did. I loved the watch.

Fast forward several months and watches began being delivered in our locale. Having heard nothing, I contacted the boutique. They checked with Lange, and I was point-blank turned down. No “We were surprised by demand”, no “you can have one but it may be a wait”; no excuse or explanation at all. Even the personal meeting with Wilhelm Schmid, and being an existing pre-Odysseus customer, mattered for nought. No apology was forthcoming either.

I still love the Odysseus, but after being treated with such disdain, will never be purchasing a Lange again.

Lange CEO Wilhelm Shmid's personal Odysseus on my wrist:

I had the same experience with a sales rep, not the CEO, but with a 3 watch purchase history, albeit, none over $25K. I appreciated the fact that they flatly told me that, no, I would not be getting an Odysseus. They did explain that if I bundled with an 1815 Chrono it might be possible but my past history wasn't sufficient. I cried a bit and, ultimately, decided that I wasn't wealthy enough to live in New York any longer.

[PPFANBOY]

I was told point blank that I'll get a Lumen allocation if I buy a heavy hitter piece. Which I may well have done anyway.

I already have a Platinum Zeitwerk Lumen and I prefer it over the honey gold either way.

[uniqueMR]

Idk what ALS will do once lumen edition comes to Odysseus :)