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9 February 2022, 03:34 PM | #61 | |
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This watch is no where what one should expect for 50K. With 5711 gone, there are indeed many indys wanna cash in on the wave. LF is a good brand, but not this watch at this price level. We know what a 50k watch is. |
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9 February 2022, 04:08 PM | #62 |
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very unique take, BUT PRICE IS WOW
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10 February 2022, 12:02 AM | #63 | |
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I'm not sure I'm following you here... First, all LF's watches (except for the "origin" line, which is $30k) are $50k and up. They can't be "cashing in" on the supposed "wave" when they have priced the sport model the same as every other model. Second, if you know what a "$50k watch is [worth]," then your point must be that this one is underpriced given that it is allegedly sold out through 2024-25. If you are trying to say its overpriced, the laws of economics hereby find you in contempt, good sir! As to your point about the 5711 leaving vacuum. I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree. On the one hand I agree that there are certainly more people who want to buy the 5711 than 5711s available, so there is a vacuum there. On the other hand, I don't totally agree with your premise that only dejected 5711 hunters are buying this watch as "the next best thing" as a result of that vacuum. I think this watch should stand on its own merit next to the 5711 the same as the 15202/300/400/500 Royal Oaks or any other lux integrated bracelet sports watches. Plus how can you compare this to a 5711 or any other watch, let alone comment on its value, when you've never held it or seen it other than in pictures? Interesting opinion perhaps, it just seems more like you are bemoaning the price of watches rather than offering any real thought about it. |
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10 February 2022, 12:16 AM | #64 | |
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I'm a successful 5711 hunter and my LF arrives next year. Amazing looking watch and from my knowledge of LF, the finishing is up with the very best independents and totally beyond that of PP/AP/VC sports pieces. The fact that it isn't universally appealing to my mind means that the styling has been successful, not simply another indistinguishable sports piece amongst many. |
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10 February 2022, 12:16 AM | #65 | |
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This comparison reminds me of what the late-great Jerry Buss said to Kobe Bryant when Kobe was trying to convince Dr. Buss to trade him by arguing how many "good" players the Lakers could get in exchange. Buss made a great analogy: He said, "Kobe, if I had a diamond of great value, four or five carats, would I give up that diamond for four diamonds of one carat? No." |
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10 February 2022, 12:29 AM | #66 | |
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And when it does, pics would be greatly appreciated by us "fan boys" |
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10 February 2022, 01:12 AM | #67 |
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10 February 2022, 01:50 AM | #68 |
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Someone asked for pix of my tourbillon bracelet. Here you go
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10 February 2022, 01:57 AM | #69 |
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Beautiful!!!
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10 February 2022, 04:33 AM | #70 |
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10 February 2022, 03:58 PM | #71 | |
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Would an average Joe working 9-5 purchase an MB&F as his first, second, hell, fifth watch? What would be the point if not lucrative? |
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19 February 2022, 12:51 AM | #72 | |
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19 February 2022, 12:59 AM | #73 |
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Maybe removed :)
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19 February 2022, 05:54 AM | #74 |
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It's hard to tell for certain from your pictures, but I'm guessing that the case shape in profile is the same as the Sport Auto. If so, the lugs seem to extend from the mid case, rather than dropping and having the spring bars at the same level as the bottom of the case back or below. How does your Grand Sport feel on the wrist? Does this lug arrangement make the watch feel tippy or top heavy?
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19 February 2022, 11:17 AM | #75 | |
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I don't know how this forum is since I am new here. I think you are making quite a few assumptions about me as a watch collector. We don't have to go into size measuring contest. I just uploaded a picture of one of my 50k range watches that I ordered and literally just acquired from the boutique yesterday. Going back to this particular LF watch, it is indeed overpriced, in my opinion, for similar reasons mentioned in one of the well articulated posts above. But that is less important, the key is to recognize a more mature way to carry out any argument without ad hominem. It's a practice, I know. Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk |
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19 February 2022, 11:20 AM | #76 | |
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I am in complete agreement. This is the post I was referring to. |
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19 February 2022, 07:19 PM | #77 |
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19 February 2022, 08:24 PM | #78 | |
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From my perspective the piece isn’t overpriced but then I’ve ordered one. |
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20 February 2022, 05:06 AM | #79 | |
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20 February 2022, 05:24 AM | #80 | |
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"Each LF 270.01 calibre alone requires more than 139 manual finishing operations. For instance, the bridge of the micro-rotor movement is meticulously decorated by hand: the angles are softened then finished with gentian wood or diamantine, while the surface is mirror-polished. In addition, the movement features several internal angles, multiple zinc-polished surfaces and numerous satin-finishing and circular-graining, all executed by hand in the LAURENT FERRIER workshops." https://deployant.com/new-laurent-ferrier-sport-auto/ |
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20 February 2022, 05:44 AM | #81 | |
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Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk |
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20 February 2022, 06:30 AM | #82 | |
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The removal of the Côtes de Genève in this particular LF watch is a very important hint on one thing, increasing the profit by reducing cost and increasing sale price. Nothing wrong with increasing the sale price with current inflation and lack of supply, but the argument here is not about the the relationship between quality of a watch and its price in an absolute sense, but actually a relative one. The cost of all these high end mechanical watch largely stem from the cost of training a watchmaker to handle different level of movement. For example, a senior watchmaker that can handle a torbillon or a resonance movement costs exceedinly more than ones that handle the entry level watch. Extending from the first argument, the time of hand finish directly affect the cost. To the customers eye, the quality of finish implies the time it took, or rather someone again who is highly trained and can finish it in more efficient manner, which then again ties back to the first point - the more trained the watchmaker touches the watch, the more expensive the watch should be. Overall, in the games of mechanical watch, we are indeed paying for human cost through the crystallization of two very essence - art and mechanical engineering, two things that help define human intelligence and creativity. I digress. Going back to this watch, removal of Côtes de Genève is a very important teller tale sign of the mindset of cost cutting, because actually the Geneva strip is not that expensive to do, but have a large impact visually. Let me stop here before we use some other 50k watch movement finish to illustrate why this watch finish is already not at a 50k USD watch level. Of course the determination of a watch price is a combination of many factors, and we have not touched exclusiveness and more importantly the robustness and innovation of the very movement itself. Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk |
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20 February 2022, 11:35 PM | #83 | |
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This sounds more like: you think a cote de geneve looks expensive and great. Period end. |
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21 February 2022, 12:25 AM | #84 | |
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All the above add up to the question, why is it $50k? This is clearly a case of them cashing in. It's obvious.
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21 February 2022, 12:53 AM | #85 | |
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It’s not the same level Because they didn’t put cote de Genève on the plate? That’s silly. Read the literature about the hand finishing mirror polishing and non visible hand finishing in the movement as well as the hand finish on the rotor et al. The point is, whether you like the finish or not the facts about cost cutting are not on your side. I’ve cited references, I welcome you to do the same. Bracelet is not the same. The one from the tourb doesn’t fit the sport. So that is inaccurate. The brand new in-house movement didn’t take R&D? I guess you overlooked those costs as well? Swiss escapement being less expensive to produce than a natural escapement. Perhaps… I don’t know. By how much? And how do you know how much it costs LF to produce it given that this movement is brand new? References welcomed. Anyway, I think your opinion is great. I welcome it. It’s just that trying to pawn off your opinion as knowledge or fact when it’s not, is off putting. I’m happy if you want to prove me wrong. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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21 February 2022, 01:33 AM | #86 |
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I had a look yesterday at both the LF AD's here in HK and although they had a combined number of around 6 watches in stock, I was quite disappointed with the steel case finishing and some of the dial colors.
Maybe my expectations were too high but I really thought they could do better with the dials. I found the dial of my Kurono Toki sunburst honestly better looking than LF champagne / silvery dial which to me seemed a little mallwatch-y if that makes sense. I wanted to see the Ice blue dial as that is the only one I am really interested in but it was nowhere to be found and they only had some basic models with dials as I described above. I left a bit disappointed with the brand. |
21 February 2022, 01:38 AM | #87 | |
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1) It's not a matter of finishing preference. The finishing is not to the same standard. This is fact. You can debate cote de geneve versus vertical brushing all you want (you are still wrong here). That aside, there is significantly less black polish, one of the most cost prohibitive finishing techniques. The bridges were literally redesigned unnecessarily to have less pronounced angles, making the anglage much easier to execute. These are facts. The movement is cheaper to finish. 2). It's the same bracelet. Resizing it to fit a 40mm case is not the same as developing a new bracelet. Stop it. 3) I don't know how much cheaper the Swiss lever was for them, obviously only they know. The fact is, it's cheaper. They had a good reason for making this switch. But...it's cheaper nonetheless. Also, only changing the escapement does not make this a new movement. Stop the hyperbole.
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21 February 2022, 02:01 AM | #88 | |
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21 February 2022, 02:22 AM | #89 | |
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All good my friend. I wish you well and understand your position, misguided as it is ;). Agree to disagree on this one. Though I remain open to you educating me if you ever so choose to do so. In the meantime, Speedmaster is a great handle… and a great watch - perhaps we can agree on that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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21 February 2022, 02:26 AM | #90 | |
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For what it's worth, I've loved the Laurent Ferrier brand for years now and have one on order, coming next month. I'm glad this sports watch was a hit and hopefully it sets up the brand for long term success.
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