Tipping

[daveathall]

I am at a table with my wife, we order an $80 meal and a $20 dollar bottle of wine.
A couple next to us orders a $80 meal and a $200 bottle of wine.
Both of us are served by the same server.

Who will the server be tempted to give the better service to?
If the other couple get better service, should I give 20% the same as the other couple but for less service?
If we are both served equally as well, should the other couple give $56 tip while I give $20 tip for exactly the same service?

I ask these questions because I dont know the answer, just curious.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by daveathall

I am at a table with my wife, we order an $80 meal and a $20 dollar bottle of wine.
A couple next to us orders a $80 meal and a $200 bottle of wine.
Both of us are served by the same server.

Who will the server be tempted to give the better service to?
If the other couple get better service, should I give 20% the same as the other couple but for less service?
If we are both served equally as well, should the other couple give $56 tip while I give $20 tip for exactly the same service?

I ask these questions because I dont know the answer, just curious.

Personally I think a great waiter will give great service to any customer.

As for wine costs, generally the thought is if you can afford the wine costs then you tip for your total bill the same as a person that didn't order any.

It used to be 10-15%, but that has now slid up to 20-25%. So in your example you tip $20 and they tip $56.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by daveathall

I am at a table with my wife, we order an $80 meal and a $20 dollar bottle of wine.
A couple next to us orders a $80 meal and a $200 bottle of wine.
Both of us are served by the same server.

Who will the server be tempted to give the better service to?
If the other couple get better service, should I give 20% the same as the other couple but for less service?
If we are both served equally as well, should the other couple give $56 tip while I give $20 tip for exactly the same service?

I ask these questions because I dont know the answer, just curious.

You can still tip 20% in the US and that’s fine. I don’t think you’ll find many restaurants that still sell $20 bottles, and if you do, it probably won’t be a place that also sells $200 bottles. The restaurant should have a consistent service standard, and they should price their entry level offerings accordingly, in a way that makes sense.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Personally I think a great waiter will give great service to any customer.

As for wine costs, generally the thought is if you can afford the wine costs then you tip for your total bill the same as a person that didn't order any.

It used to be 10-15%, but that has now slid up to 20-25%. So in your example you tip $20 and they tip $56.

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

You can still tip 20% in the US and that’s fine. I don’t think you’ll find many restaurants that still sell $20 bottles, and if you do, it probably won’t be a place that also sells $200 bottles. The restaurant should have a consistent service standard, and they should price their entry level offerings accordingly, in a way that makes sense.

Thank you Gentlemen. When I visited the US, being terrified of under tipping, I went overboard and tipped well over 20%. When in Rome etc. My son, who has been working in the US for a couple of years, came home for a week last month, he tipped at 20% here. All waiters etc were dead chuffed with him.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by daveathall

Thank you Gentlemen. When I visited the US, being terrified of under tipping, I went overboard and tipped well over 20%. When in Rome etc.

Good call, Dave.

In some cases they're a lot more militant these days and will storm out of the restaurant after you or follow you home or to your hotel.

An added benefit of wearing a Rolex is you could offer it to them, to get them off your back.

Hope you had fun here.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Good call, Dave.

In some cases they're a lot more militant these days and will storm out of the restaurant after you or follow you home or to your hotel.

An added benefit of wearing a Rolex is you could offer it to them, to get them off your back.

Hope you had fun here.

It was a long time ago, I got married in Seattle harbour on board a cruise ship. Had a fire and brimstone priest, she terrified everyone when she came on board. When she said "do you" I didn't dare say no, the crew seemed happy because, I'm sure she would have made someone marry my future wife so as not to waste her time coming on board and doing the service.

Just before the service, the captain used the tannoy, she was furious and sent the events manager to tell the captain that the tannoy could not be used again until she said so. I found it funny but didn't dare laugh.

[SDGT3]

I'll just say this, if you tip 20% for poor to average service it's a disservice to everyone else as it reinforces bad service. As an aside, I find the service in Mexico and Europe much better than in the US which is counter intuitive as one would think if you have to work for your tip, the level of service would go up.

[Net-man]

Whatever happened to double the tax


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[ExplorerI]

Tried to tip my tow truck driver the other day. He refused. I thought that was common practice when you get a tow.

[2ltdjorn]

most restaurants here are adding mandatory gratuity of at least 20%.

eating out is a luxury.

but I have found that the the mandatory gratuity is often factored on the food and tax... which I think is a bit stretch.

I was always taught to tip on the bill minus the tax.

the other issue I have seen more is the request for tipping on services that have once built business on fair pay, etc. I have been getting prompts for tips on uber, Starbucks.

that is strange to me.

the other issue I have seen is the tipping request at the counter service through whatever check out device like square or something similar. I don't understand that. you order and pay at the counter, you return to counter for the product. this counter service is not often accompanied with service beyond that. no table service, or drink refills.

what has irked me is that the tip requested at counter service is again often preset at 25%, and I have seen more too.

thats ridiculous.

[rolex16]

Originally Posted by 2ltdjorn

most restaurants here are adding mandatory gratuity of at least 20%.

eating out is a luxury.

but I have found that the the mandatory gratuity is often factored on the food and tax... which I think is a bit stretch.

I was always taught to tip on the bill minus the tax.

the other issue I have seen more is the request for tipping on services that have once built business on fair pay, etc. I have been getting prompts for tips on uber, Starbucks.

that is strange to me.

the other issue I have seen is the tipping request at the counter service through whatever check out device like square or something similar. I don't understand that. you order and pay at the counter, you return to counter for the product. this counter service is not often accompanied with service beyond that. no table service, or drink refills.

what has irked me is that the tip requested at counter service is again often preset at 25%, and I have seen more too.

thats ridiculous.

Yes, it is an epidemic and is very offputting. And I don’t want to hear this you can’t afford to go out then crap. It’s a total scam, blansky is spot on.

[m j b]

Originally Posted by Blansky

TLDR; A scam is a scam.

While we're on a rant here...

What's up with this NONSENSE of some fast food restaurants keeping their bathrooms closed "because of Coronavirus staffing levels". Now, I'm pretty sure you can't get it from a toilet seat. No, the problem isn't the virus or staffing, it's that you won't pay people enough to work there and you're trying to save money by not cleaning the bathrooms.

Second, hotels: it's pure utter nonsense that you are reducing the spread of Coronavirus by not coming in daily to make my bed and replenish my towels. I've lost some of the service that I've become accustomed to, but you sure as heck didn't lower prices to reflect that, now did you?

Originally Posted by 2ltdjorn

I have been getting prompts for tips on uber, Starbucks.
... you order and pay at the counter, you return to counter for the product. this counter service is not often accompanied with service beyond that.

thats ridiculous.

I concur. I will occasionally tip in those situations because I know these people are horribly underpaid, so basically I'm trying to say "thank you for not spitting in or on my food". But generally, I'm not getting what it is, exactly, that I'm tipping for. I tip good Uber drivers, my way of saying "thank you for keeping the car clean and not killing me on the way to the airport".

BTW, I'm salary. I don't get overtime. I don't get tips. I barely get an annual bonus. My "merit" increases don't keep up with inflation.

Just sayin'.

[airchitect]

I tip based on service. Not the price of the food. That’s just fiscally silly to me. I will not tip someone $40 ($200 meal) for a hour or two of occasionally bringing a handful of items to my table. Ntm, the kids at Chick-fil-a (for example) do it better, faster, and with a better attitude. Everyone thinks they should be tipped for everything now. It’s insane.


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[Dr Process]

Originally Posted by DJ TT 2002

I’m a very generous tipper but I do not calculate a tip based on the wine served with dinner.
There’s already an extraordinary markup on alcohol in a restaurant

Agree.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by DJ TT 2002

I’m a very generous tipper but I do not calculate a tip based on the wine served with dinner.
There’s already an extraordinary markup on alcohol in a restaurant

That's an interesting point. And I'm not arguing for or against.

But if you think about it the tip is not to the restaurant, it's to the server, and wine does take a bit of time to open and serve, perhaps more than the food. In fact in a lot of restaurants the waiter just takes the order, and a sommelier delivers the wine and waiter-helpers deliver the food. So the waiters involvement is rather minimal.

But I get your point. The entree could cost $100 and a couple of bottles of wine could be $500 or more.

[BroncoOne]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Complete nonsense.

I don't own a restaurant because I have no interest in owning one. In what other business can you open your doors without taking into account labor costs. It's a scam.

And corporations and now trying to get tipping into various other jobs so they can maximize profits instead of paying their employees.

If a restaurant can't survive who cares. Someone that can run one while paying their employees will start up. Your entire argument starts at the status quo which is a bogus argument because the entire restaurant business model has run this scam for years in the US. "we can't pay our people so you have to".

If we were to start over and have NO tipping allowed, or tipping optional, then a restaurant would open it's doors from day one with a business model that charged more for food, which is how all businesses operate. Labor is a fixed cost in this business plan, and not a subsidized- having the public pay your labor. The best waiters would still do great because people would tip for great service and not out of some guilt obligation.

Lets say I opened a muffler shop and put up a sign: Please tip my installers 15-20% because I don't feel like paying them. If you don't tip them, then I'll go out of business or have to charge more for your muffler".

A scam is a scam. No matter the business. The difference is historically muffler shops couldn't/didn't do this and hospitality/restaurants have gotten away with it.

Do you tip the receptionist at the dentist office, or the cashier at Safeways or the nurse at your doctors office?

You clearly have no idea how a successful restaurant manages servers. You do need to meet their expectations of terms of employment, or they leave.

It’s a good thing that you have no interest in opening a restaurant. You’d starve. Your opinion won’t pay the rent.

No less than Danny Meyer, a famous restaurant ear, tried to go no tipping, and his servers quit and he also lost customers.He had to go back to a tipping model and there a few better restaurant owners than Meyer.

[austinp]

What is considered a “living wage” these days? The interwebs has answers all over the place.


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[Lrd2sea]

tip whatever you want, 0% to 500%+. If they want to complain then make it part of the bill, like in some countries. it's given VOLUNTARILY.

[Lrd2sea]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Complete nonsense.

I don't own a restaurant because I have no interest in owning one. In what other business can you open your doors without taking into account labor costs. It's a scam.

And corporations and now trying to get tipping into various other jobs so they can maximize profits instead of paying their employees.

If a restaurant can't survive who cares. Someone that can run one while paying their employees will start up. Your entire argument starts at the status quo which is a bogus argument because the entire restaurant business model has run this scam for years in the US. "we can't pay our people so you have to".

If we were to start over and have NO tipping allowed, or tipping optional, then a restaurant would open it's doors from day one with a business model that charged more for food, which is how all businesses operate. Labor is a fixed cost in this business plan, and not a subsidized- having the public pay your labor. The best waiters would still do great because people would tip for great service and not out of some guilt obligation.

Lets say I opened a muffler shop and put up a sign: Please tip my installers 15-20% because I don't feel like paying them. If you don't tip them, then I'll go out of business or have to charge more for your muffler".

A scam is a scam. No matter the business. The difference is historically muffler shops couldn't/didn't do this and hospitality/restaurants have gotten away with it.

Do you tip the receptionist at the dentist office, or the cashier at Safeways or the nurse at your doctors office?

Spot on

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by BroncoOne

It’s a good thing that you have no interest in opening a restaurant. You’d starve.

If you starve while owning a restaurant, then you obviously aren't paying your food suppliers either. There's gotta be something to eat somewhere.

Jokes aside, we can agree to disagree on tipping.

[dawalsh]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

Many of the same restaurant/bar owners who cry about how hard it is to make a living would take the server's side in OP's story. In other words, they'd condone retaliation against the customer, whether subtle or overt, for a (perceived, because it was actually rather generous) poor tip.

To the extent the managers and owners take an "us v. them" mentality that antagonizes the paying customer, they shouldn't be surprised when they fail to turn the expected profit.

Not me man. I’m in this business from over 20 years. I always ask my servers what make they think they entitle to 20% tips? Especially high end restaurant like the one the OP went to. He/she made $100 from the OP and I hope they turn around and look at those people work in the kitchen. How many hours do they have to make to earn that much? (4hrs in my restaurant) And these servers think they deserve minimum wage on top of their tips as well?!?! C’mon.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Complete nonsense.

I don't own a restaurant because I have no interest in owning one. In what other business can you open your doors without taking into account labor costs. It's a scam.

And corporations and now trying to get tipping into various other jobs so they can maximize profits instead of paying their employees.

If a restaurant can't survive who cares. Someone that can run one while paying their employees will start up. Your entire argument starts at the status quo which is a bogus argument because the entire restaurant business model has run this scam for years in the US. "we can't pay our people so you have to".

If we were to start over and have NO tipping allowed, or tipping optional, then a restaurant would open it's doors from day one with a business model that charged more for food, which is how all businesses operate. Labor is a fixed cost in this business plan, and not a subsidized- having the public pay your labor. The best waiters would still do great because people would tip for great service and not out of some guilt obligation.

Lets say I opened a muffler shop and put up a sign: Please tip my installers 15-20% because I don't feel like paying them. If you don't tip them, then I'll go out of business or have to charge more for your muffler".

A scam is a scam. No matter the business. The difference is historically muffler shops couldn't/didn't do this and hospitality/restaurants have gotten away with it.

Do you tip the receptionist at the dentist office, or the cashier at Safeways or the nurse at your doctors office?

I can't agree enough. I always wonder what reaction I would get if I asked for a tip after a several thousand dollar surgery (I own veterinary hospitals). "Oh, that total was for the surgery, the tip is to supplement my staff's wages so I don't have to pay them appropriately."

[dowheelies]

Originally Posted by m j b

Second, hotels: it's pure utter nonsense that you are reducing the spread of Coronavirus by not coming in daily to make my bed and replenish my towels. I've lost some of the service that I've become accustomed to, but you sure as heck didn't lower prices to reflect that, now did you?

This has made my wife INSANE lately! We have been at 2 fairly pricey resorts/hotels recently where this was the case. Drop towels and sheets outside door in a plastic bag! The irony to me was the room service waiter came in our room and interacted with us, unmasked mind you, multiple times a day

[favre12rodgers]

Tipping has gotten out of hand. I understand that places that served carry out were hurting and appreciated tips during COVID. However, I see this at basically every carry out place we get food from now. It’s such a money grab. I am the one picking up the food….I am the one going in to get it….and these people still expect tips?

I’m all for tipping when dining out, etc. but getting tired of asking whether I want to tip the Dominos staff when I pick up my pizza. They do it now because they know a lot of people will tip or feel cheap if they don’t….even though COVID is over for the most part (in terms of businesses being closed down at least).

Also, OP is correct in you shouldn’t be tipping 18 percent based off alcohol sales.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by dawalsh

Not me man. I’m in this business from over 20 years. I always ask my servers what make they think they entitle to 20% tips? Especially high end restaurant like the one the OP went to. He/she made $100 from the OP and I hope they turn around and look at those people work in the kitchen. How many hours do they have to make to earn that much? (4hrs in my restaurant) And these servers think they deserve minimum wage on top of their tips as well?!?! C’mon.

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Complete nonsense.

I don't own a restaurant because I have no interest in owning one. In what other business can you open your doors without taking into account labor costs. It's a scam.

And corporations and now trying to get tipping into various other jobs so they can maximize profits instead of paying their employees.

If a restaurant can't survive who cares. Someone that can run one while paying their employees will start up. Your entire argument starts at the status quo which is a bogus argument because the entire restaurant business model has run this scam for years in the US. "we can't pay our people so you have to".

If we were to start over and have NO tipping allowed, or tipping optional, then a restaurant would open it's doors from day one with a business model that charged more for food, which is how all businesses operate. Labor is a fixed cost in this business plan, and not a subsidized- having the public pay your labor. The best waiters would still do great because people would tip for great service and not out of some guilt obligation.

Lets say I opened a muffler shop and put up a sign: Please tip my installers 15-20% because I don't feel like paying them. If you don't tip them, then I'll go out of business or have to charge more for your muffler".

A scam is a scam. No matter the business. The difference is historically muffler shops couldn't/didn't do this and hospitality/restaurants have gotten away with it.

Do you tip the receptionist at the dentist office, or the cashier at Safeways or the nurse at your doctors office?

[watchmaker]

I don't believe for one second that restaurants pass savings from not paying a decent wage (ie one which would not require tips to live off) on to the diner.

I'd go further and say I don't care if studies/polls show that most servers prefer the status quo over moving to a higher salary/no tips model - it's a flawed comparison. It overlooks the fact that all tips received above the threshold of a fair wage for the labour should be viewed as an act of extreme generosity, and not an entitlement. Of course people will choose the option that nets them more, the issue that is not being addressed is why is there that option in the first place.

It's safe to say that every other worker that gets paid a fair salary would love some arbitrary extra cash for performing the bare minimum required of them in their profession, but that (strangely enough) is not being floated as a sensible idea by any other industry nor that industry's customers.

[1William]

Great discussion.

[airchitect]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

I don't believe for one second that restaurants pass savings from not paying a decent wage (ie one which would not require tips to live off) on to the diner.

I'd go further and say I don't care if studies/polls show that most servers prefer the status quo over moving to a higher salary/no tips model - it's a flawed comparison. It overlooks the fact that all tips received above the threshold of a fair wage for the labour should be viewed as an act of extreme generosity, and not an entitlement. Of course people will choose the option that nets them more, the issue that is not being addressed is why is there that option in the first place.

It's safe to say that every other worker that gets paid a fair salary would love some arbitrary extra cash for performing the bare minimum required of them in their profession, but that (strangely enough) is not being floated as a sensible idea by any other industry nor that industry's customers.

True story.

And I think this thread has really made me re-evaluate my tipping to the point I’m just flat out not going over $20/$30 again. And that depends on if it’s just me, me/wife, or me/wife/kids.

It’s not that I’m cheap, its simply how much should I be paying someone to refill my water?
There are firefighters and teachers out there who don’t even make $20/hr for Pete’s sake.

There’s a saying that if you can’t tip well then you can’t afford to be out in the first place. Well that’s bs and made up by those in the restaurant industry. Eating out is not some privilege for which you must compensate all those around you. Anyway, I’m just whining now but, given the choice, I’d rather tip the kid at Best Buy who helped me decide on a new router than someone who handed me bread and topped off my kids Sprite with water…..


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[Sperry]

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