Rolex new policy

[Hulkhunter]

Originally Posted by Rolexatlast

Seems logical that serial flippers will be buying the most watches - ie are the biggest spenders

After all, Rolex watches are designed to last a lifetime and designs evolve over decades, so anyone buying, say 5 watches a year, would soon have all the models they want, and will not be long term customers. ADs would be better cultivating new potential high spenders.

Of course, there will be people who never have enough watches, but individual ADs cannot have that many

The exception will be those ADs selling jewellery, but unless the AD is in a premium location - like central London - individual ADs cannot have that many long term high value jewellery buyers

The apparent requirement to first buy non popular DJs etc. seems more of an apprentice flipper training scheme

There isn’t a rule that says you have to keep the watches forever. It’s not really flipping if you move a watch on after a few years to make way for something new. Collections evolve as time goes on and tastes change. So the people can buy multiple watches over the years and still desire others.

[njlam]

Given the retail demand, there is no reason an AD would sell directly to a grey and/or flipper....unless they got a piece of of the resale...

As greys seem to have unlimited access to the top models, this has to be happening.

[VerticalClutch]

Originally Posted by Rolexatlast

Seems logical that serial flippers will be buying the most watches - ie are the biggest spenders

After all, Rolex watches are designed to last a lifetime and designs evolve over decades, so anyone buying, say 5 watches a year, would soon have all the models they want, and will not be long term customers. ADs would be better cultivating new potential high spenders.

Of course, there will be people who never have enough watches, but individual ADs cannot have that many

The exception will be those ADs selling jewellery, but unless the AD is in a premium location - like central London - individual ADs cannot have that many long term high value jewellery buyers

The apparent requirement to first buy non popular DJs etc. seems more of an apprentice flipper training scheme

Getting 5 Rolex's a year is tuff. I got three last year (Sub, Green Sub & CHNR) and that was between two AD's. I'm not their biggest customer, but I know a couple big spenders who frequent one of them and even they don't do much better than 3 a year. Given every year you're adding a watch or two to your list (because of new releases), it never really reaches "completion."

Also, rich folks don't flip watches. Not to sound like a jerk, but when I got my green sub, the idea of flipping it for $10k profit never crossed my mind. The $10k doesn't change my life in the slightest. I'd rather have the watch. Now, if I could flip a watch for like $200k profit, okay, I'd probably have to do it at that point, but I know guys who'd like, "meh, the $200k is just gas money for the jet." It's crazy the money some folks have. Whales don't care about flipping profit, trust me, the upside is irrelevant to their finances.

I do think some AD's are selling out of the back door and taking a cut of the profit. Or SA's have folks who give them a cut direct and the AD would not approve of it, but are having the wool pulled over their eyes.

This can't be that simple though, because as I mentioned before, the AD's have to keep their good customers happy. Let's say my AD gets a Panda Daytona in and they sell it out the back door for $10k over retail. So they profit an extra $10k! yeah for them! But I'm still waiting in line for my Panda and I'm getting frustrated. A different AD gets me my Panda one day...I'm suddenly a huge fan of that AD and I'll be spending more of my time and money with them going forward because I'm a happy customer and they gave me better customer service than my old AD. That's the problem with the whole theory of them selling out the back door. They might make some quick cash, but they'll lose customers to AD's who don't do that.

So, my guess is that when an AD does sell out the back door (and it has to be happening) that they only do it when they need a cash infusion or SA's are doing it behind the AD's back.

I mentioned I shop at two AD's, I randomly bought a BB58 from an AD I had never even been in the store of. I was looking at the Rolex case and the gal asked me if there was a watch I wanted, but hadn't been able to get. I told her the green Sub. About 5 months later she had one for me. She earned my business. If my first AD had it to me sooner, I would have never been impressed with AD #2. So AD #2 now gets about half my spend. AD #1 not getting me a green Sub faster cost them more than the couple grand extra they would have made selling it out the back door. I didn't start visiting AD #2 out of spite or to prove a point or anything like that, it's just natural when you get good service.

That's why I don't think it happens as much as others might think. AD's are genuinely struggling with meeting expectations of their good customers and it puts their good customers at risk of being poached. Trying to keep everyone happy when you don't have the inventory to do so is not fun. Add to that, we're talking about folks who aren't used to being told no. I just don't see the long term fallout from not getting rare models into the hands of good clients as worth it for the fast cash of selling out the back door.

[Asuki]

Originally Posted by VerticalClutch

Getting 5 Rolex's a year is tuff. I got three last year (Sub, Green Sub & CHNR) and that was between two AD's. I'm not their biggest customer, but I know a couple big spenders who frequent one of them and even they don't do much better than 3 a year. Given every year you're adding a watch or two to your list (because of new releases), it never really reaches "completion."

Also, rich folks don't flip watches. Not to sound like a jerk, but when I got my green sub, the idea of flipping it for $10k profit never crossed my mind. The $10k doesn't change my life in the slightest. I'd rather have the watch. Now, if I could flip a watch for like $200k profit, okay, I'd probably have to do it at that point, but I know guys who'd like, "meh, the $200k is just gas money for the jet." It's crazy the money some folks have. Whales don't care about flipping profit, trust me, the upside is irrelevant to their finances.

I do think some AD's are selling out of the back door and taking a cut of the profit. Or SA's have folks who give them a cut direct and the AD would not approve of it, but are having the wool pulled over their eyes.

This can't be that simple though, because as I mentioned before, the AD's have to keep their good customers happy. Let's say my AD gets a Panda Daytona in and they sell it out the back door for $10k over retail. So they profit an extra $10k! yeah for them! But I'm still waiting in line for my Panda and I'm getting frustrated. A different AD gets me my Panda one day...I'm suddenly a huge fan of that AD and I'll be spending more of my time and money with them going forward because I'm a happy customer and they gave me better customer service than my old AD. That's the problem with the whole theory of them selling out the back door. They might make some quick cash, but they'll lose customers to AD's who don't do that.

So, my guess is that when an AD does sell out the back door (and it has to be happening) that they only do it when they need a cash infusion or SA's are doing it behind the AD's back.

I mentioned I shop at two AD's, I randomly bought a BB58 from an AD I had never even been in the store of. I was looking at the Rolex case and the gal asked me if there was a watch I wanted, but hadn't been able to get. I told her the green Sub. About 5 months later she had one for me. She earned my business. If my first AD had it to me sooner, I would have never been impressed with AD #2. So AD #2 now gets about half my spend. AD #1 not getting me a green Sub faster cost them more than the couple grand extra they would have made selling it out the back door. I didn't start visiting AD #2 out of spite or to prove a point or anything like that, it's just natural when you get good service.

That's why I don't think it happens as much as others might think. AD's are genuinely struggling with meeting expectations of their good customers and it puts their good customers at risk of being poached. Trying to keep everyone happy when you don't have the inventory to do so is not fun. Add to that, we're talking about folks who aren't used to being told no. I just don't see the long term fallout from not getting rare models into the hands of good clients as worth it for the fast cash of selling out the back door.

Well said and I couldn’t agree more. Picked up 4 Rolex watches across 2 ADs within a 12 months span.

[Turb0wned]

Originally Posted by BroncoOne

True. ADs do NOT need to sell to grey market or flippers. They have every Rolex sold to a good repeat customer, and in retail businesses, these are the people that you must keep happy. They are with you in both bad and good economic cycles and think of you first when they also need earrings, etc.

Some ADs may sell to someone who then flips the watch for whatever reason, but my ADs are pretty adamant about not selling in demand pieces to someone they think is a flipper. Fortunately for them there are good regular customers who get multiple watches. They know that they will keep them or if they sell, they come back to the AD to do it and buy something else. The AD then gets to resell it over MSRP because it isn’t a new watch that Rolex prohibits to be sold above MSRP by an AD.

I guess you still leave cookies for Santa Clause too.

[Yess]

I've been waiting on a Toyota Landcruiser Ute (pick-up truck for the Americans, I guess?) for the last 18 months. The demand is so high, that a Ute you buy for about $90k, you can drive it out and sell it for $120k the same day - very Rolex like in many ways.

What happens though, is that the dealership I have my couple grand with waiting for my Ute to turn up has a "second hand" one on their lot right now, in the exact colour and config I want - but they have a $120k sticker on it, not the $90k I will pay. What the dealer does, is gets the Ute new in the dealership, drives it around to put a few thousand kms on it - then puts it on the lot as a second hand car banking the massive profit. I'm not talking about the test drive Ute here - there are zero of those around - because they can't sell them for the inflated price!

It is naive to think that independent Rolex dealers aren't going to work with resellers to make a little extra money where they can. At the end of the day, if someone is happy to pay RRP to an owner of a jewellery store, plus a thousand in cash under the counter, and you're running a business with the rising costs and overheads, of course they are. And of course, they will sell to someone they have an established relationship with, to minimise the risk of it blowing up in their face.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by njlam

Given the retail demand, there is no reason an AD would sell directly to a grey and/or flipper....unless they got a piece of of the resale...

As greys seem to have unlimited access to the top models, this has to be happening.

Some customers who get the top models sell to catch an easy profit. I don't think most sellers intended to sell immediately, but they start thinking about it and it festers in their mind, all the profit, and off goes the watch. ADs make way too much easy quick money on Rolex these days to put it all at risk over a few bucks extra on a hot model which they could better sell to a good client who will buy something else just to get the watch. And that something else has a way bigger margin for the store than a Rolex watch.

[VerticalClutch]

Calatrava raises a good point that I didn’t think of…I know a lot of business owners, and none of them would put their cash cow at risk for marginal gain. Good point.

It’s gotta be SA’s who work with a flipper and take a cut. I just can’t wrap my head around a business owner screwing over their best customers and risking a flag ship IP for a few bucks.

[JKPA]

The only iron clad policy I know of is that they will no longer ship Rolexes in the mail. You must pick up in store.

[BroncoOne]

Originally Posted by R0CKETMAN

Kinda hard to tell the difference between flipper and end user.

It’s pretty easy when someone comes in to buy a new watch and is wearing one of the watches that you sold to that customer in the past. Or when they want to sell they offer it to the AD to resell at a premium

[BroncoOne]

Originally Posted by Turb0wned

I guess you still leave cookies for Santa Clause too.

No. I get Rolex watches at MSRP when I want them because what I said is true.
I don’t need to believe in fairy tales.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by BroncoOne

It’s pretty easy when someone comes in to buy a new watch and is wearing one of the watches that you sold to that customer in the past. Or when they want to sell they offer it to the AD to resell at a premium

Sounds like a stretch. On new watch day I always wear something less valuable into the store that I’ll feel comfortable leaving in the car for the rest of the day as I wear the new watch out of the store, and when I’ve sold or traded a watch back to the AD I don’t make the offer, they do.

[VerticalClutch]

I always wear a rare piece that the AD sold me. They offer to clean it up for me and I always hand it over. I don’t know if they check serial numbers or not, but I try to show I still have the watch.

[SLWoodster]

I think all of these questions on policy and etc are literally a translation of:

"I am entry or middling customer that is not getting the watches I asked for. How do I get it without having to buy more than the next guy or accept the grey market?

Acceptable questions but the OPs literally already know the answer every single time. lol.

[MauMau]

It's no brainer that some of these 'good customers' are flippers. The grey market is full of BNIB rolexes. Males you wonder if there is a real short supply.

[karleone]

Originally Posted by Mario531

Hi all, has anyone heard of this new policy? I hear Rolex wants to be fair in distributing their watches. They are asking their customers to wait in a queue and will be able to get a watch on first come first served basis. Does anyone know if this is true?

Complete BS from your AD

[dtwer]

Originally Posted by cerendigit

“My AD told me…”

It has gotten worse now, this one starts with "I hear." Doesn't even bother to use AD as the source of rumor.

[dtwer]

Originally Posted by Yess

I've been waiting on a Toyota Landcruiser Ute (pick-up truck for the Americans, I guess?) for the last 18 months. The demand is so high, that a Ute you buy for about $90k, you can drive it out and sell it for $120k the same day - very Rolex like in many ways.

What happens though, is that the dealership I have my couple grand with waiting for my Ute to turn up has a "second hand" one on their lot right now, in the exact colour and config I want - but they have a $120k sticker on it, not the $90k I will pay. What the dealer does, is gets the Ute new in the dealership, drives it around to put a few thousand kms on it - then puts it on the lot as a second hand car banking the massive profit. I'm not talking about the test drive Ute here - there are zero of those around - because they can't sell them for the inflated price!

It is naive to think that independent Rolex dealers aren't going to work with resellers to make a little extra money where they can. At the end of the day, if someone is happy to pay RRP to an owner of a jewellery store, plus a thousand in cash under the counter, and you're running a business with the rising costs and overheads, of course they are. And of course, they will sell to someone they have an established relationship with, to minimise the risk of it blowing up in their face.

Don't know the laws where you live so I can't comment, but in the US a car is only considered used after it has been titled to a buyer. So the dealership won't be able to sell a new car as used unless it buys and registers the car first; piling miles alone won't do. But then again in the US, car dealerships don't need to turn a car into used in order to sell for premium; they can add any premium to any new car.

[RustE]

Originally Posted by dtwer

…in the US a car is only considered used after it has been titled to a buyer. So the dealership won't be able to sell a new car as used unless it buys and registers the car first; piling miles alone won't do...

I have seen where an owner takes the vehicle for its first service and trades it in for something else. That was several years ago though.

Otherwise, a “demo” is still a new vehicle even though it has a few thousand miles. Dealers do not register the vehicle, they just use one of their allotted license plates to have someone drive it around. In the past the sale price of a “demo” was between the price of a comparable new vehicle and a comparable used vehicle that was registered.

[Gebbeth]

I though Roman Sharf was a guest on the Watchfinder channel, and he mentioned that the ADs he deals with or have met with shows him cabinets full of Rolexes of many kinds.

While he did not insinuate that these ADs are just keeping them for a few years and them putting them on the market as "New/Old stock", I could see this happening quite easily as there is no law against actually marketing a new watch as old or used (this is exactly the flip side of what usually happens, and what consumer protection laws are not designed to protect from).

The only thing that Rolex requires for their own CPO program is that the watch be sold and be at least X years old. That's something that simple paperwork can take care of, and waiting for a 200% return on investment in 3 years is a no brainer (the margin may even be greater as Sharf said the AD's price from Rolex is significantly below the retail price).

Outside of the Rolex CPO program, there are no such restrictions.

What I do think Roman was getting as was that there is no shortage of Rolex watches. They are always available. ADs have them. They have always had them. They have more than one for sure. In fact, they have multiples in various configurations. They are just not for you.

So whenever an AD says they only get 1 Batman or Daytona per year, or some other nonsense, I wouldn't believe them farther than I could literally throw them.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Parapraxis

Rolex does not control allocations, the AD does. So you're AD is lying to you. There are no policies, other than what the store manager decides.

I'm not so certain
It's possible that Rolex may take more of a particular interest in the dealer allocations for the DSC seeing as production is probably severely limited.
Hard to say really

[ypnadkar]

I had visited a Rolex AD in NYC and talked to them about a model I was interested in. I live in Seattle. They called and asked me if I wanted to come to NY to pick up the watch. Its not impossible but not convenient for me to just jump on a flight to the east coast. They have all my details and I said I could pay for it online and they can ship it to me. But they said, I have to be at the store and in person to purchase it or have someone come purchase it on my behalf but put on their credit card. Is this true? Do you have to be at the store to purchase the watch?

[GMTmatt]

Originally Posted by ypnadkar

I had visited a Rolex AD in NYC and talked to them about a model I was interested in. I live in Seattle. They called and asked me if I wanted to come to NY to pick up the watch. Its not impossible but not convenient for me to just jump on a flight to the east coast. They have all my details and I said I could pay for it online and they can ship it to me. But they said, I have to be at the store and in person to purchase it or have someone come purchase it on my behalf but put on their credit card. Is this true? Do you have to be at the store to purchase the watch?

Yes you need to be there in person to make the purchase and was made clear to me at multiple AD’s.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by garyk

I have a policy very similar to my time at a military academy, hurry up and wait…

That about sums it up perfectly

[Bozack90]

I have seen people post this before but I agree with others that say it’s up to the AD, and personally the only guy I know who gets some hard to get pieces is friends with the president of the local chain here, and even that is limited

[temporarychicken]

The one rule that ADs all have is to make as much money as possible on their finite, yearly allocation.

There are many strategies to achieve this and each of them has been widely discussed here.

If the market is ascending then I would guess that 'hold' might be indicated and this leads to the stories of ADs with safes full of unsold watches.

If it's going the other way, then the 'relationship' model would seem more appropriate to extract additional value from hot pieces.

If the majority of pieces go below retail then this could indicate bundling of hot pieces with cold towards greys to ensure all stock is moved on.

There are still many more strategies that are in use, and some ADs may use several at the same time depending on what they get in stock and various other factors.

From our side of the arrangement, the dream of walk-in for popular models is still just that, a dream.

But if the windows were full of them, who would still bother to dream?