Vick back in the NFL.... what do you think?

[Bebot]

Originally Posted by SSD

Vick is unacceptable as a role model for anyone. Therefore, I am vehemently opposed to his reinstatement. No one as cruel or cowardly should be accepted by society as any sort of celebrity. He didn't make a "mistake", he made a deliberate decision. Repeatedly. And I do not believe his apology was sincere.

He did nothing for me to forgive. That's between him and God, none of us are involved there. But his unsuitability as a role model remains unchanged.

JMO.

And I don't even own a dog.

[waltk1026]

Dog lover or not doesn't matter. What kind of a skum is this guy. No good person could do what he did. I don't care what anyones opinion is and to say he paid his dues I dont think that just makes him ok again. He would be still doing it if he didn't get caught, that's the worst part.
I live in Philadelphia, thats just great that we are stuck with him.

[Watchdog]

What a joke of an interview tonight. I have always thought of 60 Minutes as hard-hitting journalism. Boy, was I wrong. Those softballs James Brown was asking were absurd.

It was simply a forum for Vick to reinvent his image without addressing the specifics of his crimes or future plans to do good.

I also think Vick's lawyers/handlers did him a disservice. I believe America was looking for genuine emotion, not rehearsed answers that came across as something from a statue.

[wino4ever]

Originally Posted by SSD

Vick is unacceptable as a role model for anyone. Therefore, I am vehemently opposed to his reinstatement. No one as cruel or cowardly should be accepted by society as any sort of celebrity. He didn't make a "mistake", he made a deliberate decision. Repeatedly. And I do not believe his apology was sincere.

He did nothing for me to forgive. That's between him and God, none of us are involved there. But his unsuitability as a role model remains unchanged.

JMO.

Okay just to play devils advocate here – Vick's job is to be neither role model NOR celebrity. Society often imposes that role on athletes, movie stars, politicians, etc when it should be on parents. I'd hazard a guess that Mike Vicks contract doesn't even stipulate people LIKE him, let alone respect him.

Michael Vicks job is to throw a football accurately. So simple yet few can do it. Hence the big bucks because so many people will pay hundreds of dollars to to sit in small cramped seats (often in crappy weather) next to drunken dolts and watch it first-hand. Kind of funny how Philly would malign Vick when they embraced a thug like Allen Iverson. Funny how the scoreboard seems to make it all better.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

*disclaimer: I neither have kids, a dog nor do I watch football. I do have a cat but it is old, losing it's teeth, and therefore not in the best of "fighting" shape. Hmm but I might still be able to juggle her.

[Taffi Abernathy]

Originally Posted by waltk1026

Dog lover or not doesn't matter. What kind of a skum is this guy. No good person could do what he did. I don't care what anyones opinion is and to say he paid his dues I dont think that just makes him ok again. He would be still doing it if he didn't get caught, that's the worst part.
I live in Philadelphia, thats just great that we are stuck with him.

x100. It doesn't matter what his profession is, he lacks a moral compass. I wish he'd relocate to the foot of the volcano in Montserrat. End of story.

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by Taffi Abernathy

x100. It doesn't matter what his profession is, he lacks a moral compass. I wish he'd relocate to the foot of the volcano in Montserrat. End of story.

Montserrat, having more sense than the NFL, would not let him in.

[Taffi Abernathy]

Originally Posted by onkyo

Montserrat, having more sense than the NFL, would not let him in.

True that, bro, they're not down with him either! Peace out.

[Rolexophile]

Check it out... sackvick.net

[RedBaronF2001]

Originally Posted by AIKO

Let's be honest, my dogs and your dogs are bred to hang by the pool or lay on the couch. The very dogs you see above looking the way the look are bred to to look that way. That is a fact. That does not make dog fighting humane but it is in their genetics. I am a big believer in Karma. This situation will self regulate one way or the other.

Dogs are most often NOT bred to fight (physically or mentally). To get them in "vicious" mode you have to consciously do so - under-stimulation, starving, beating, and other forms of cruelty. Often these dogs do "recover" and go on to live semi-normal lives when removed from the cruel conditions.

My point here, too, is that Vick and/or his group purposefully brutalized these animals and that is not defensible in my book.

[RedBaronF2001]

Originally Posted by SSD

Vick is unacceptable as a role model for anyone. Therefore, I am vehemently opposed to his reinstatement. No one as cruel or cowardly should be accepted by society as any sort of celebrity. He didn't make a "mistake", he made a deliberate decision. Repeatedly. And I do not believe his apology was sincere.

That's the keyword here - repeatedly. They removed numerous abused dogs and canine carcasses from his property. One dog, I could see *maybe* letting him go with jail time and an apology as it would be in line with all this "second chance on life" talk. Folks - he condoned and participated in the deaths of multiple canines.

[Taffi Abernathy]

I think in some cases celebrities are so narcissistic that they believe they are invincible, and therefore, beyond reproach. There was no reason for this inhumane behavior. It's not like Vick was starving and in need of money. It was simply indefensible. Moreover, what bothers me the most is that this type of insensitivity to pain and suffering smacks of psychopathy. He may have gone to prison, but you can't instill empathy in another person where it doesn't exist, you can only hope to curtail egregious behavior through fear of stiff penalties/consequences.

[Watchdog]

Originally Posted by Taffi Abernathy

I think in some cases celebrities are so narcissistic that they believe they are invincible, and therefore, beyond reproach. There was no reason for this inhumane behavior. It's not like Vick was starving and in need of money. It was simply indefensible. Moreover, what bothers me the most is that this type of insensitivity to pain and suffering smacks of psychopathy. He may have gone to prison, but you can't instill empathy in another person where it doesn't exist, you can only hope to curtail egregious behavior through fear of stiff penalties/consequences.

[Omega_Precision]

Michael Vick was very proud of his dogs because they fought better then the rivals.

I don't think he regrets it, he only regrets getting caught, from the 60 minutes inteview tonight.

I don't think it even crossed his mind that these dogs looked like this.....


He was very happy that his pack of dogs were killing his rival breeders.

Imagine if your dog got lost. Vick and his handlers would put them in the cage with his fight dogs for practice. Last thing I want to be is some PETA activist but these dogs were treated very poorly. Vick will be a dog in his next lifetime.

[gregdolley]

Originally Posted by Bebot

I do believe in second chance. This is why he is out of prison. But I don't believe he should be playing football again. I think this is just like giving Madoff a second chance and let him back to do what he do best. Scamming people. When he decided to kill those dogs, I really don't think he had a second thoughts, otherwise he wouldn't kill those many dogs. You also have to consider that those dogs can't defend themselve and that's is very cruel. I know that it is not the same as killing defenseless childgren or senior citizen but it's a similar in passion. No I don't have a dog.

It's not the same as the Madoff thing because playing football isn't illegal, while what Madoff did to earn his living was definitely illegal. I don't think football led him to kill all those dogs, so going back to the NFL isn't a big deal to me. He just shouldn't be allowed to own dogs ever again.

[C. Davidson]

I live in Vegas and many companies do a criminal background check as part of the interview process. One criminal act, no hire, end of story. Why the NFL does not have this same standard, who knows. I see both sides to this story.

[cosimo]

Originally Posted by C. Davidson

I live in Vegas and many companies do a criminal background check as part of the interview process. One criminal act, no hire, end of story. Why the NFL does not have this same standard, who knows. I see both sides to this story.

What a perfect synopsis

[mfer]

Originally Posted by SSD

Vick is unacceptable as a role model for anyone. Therefore, I am vehemently opposed to his reinstatement. No one as cruel or cowardly should be accepted by society as any sort of celebrity. He didn't make a "mistake", he made a deliberate decision. Repeatedly. And I do not believe his apology was sincere.

He did nothing for me to forgive. That's between him and God, none of us are involved there. But his unsuitability as a role model remains unchanged.

JMO.

Originally Posted by onkyo

Shame on the NFL for allowing him back in to make millions.

Originally Posted by C. Davidson

I live in Vegas and many companies do a criminal background check as part of the interview process. One criminal act, no hire, end of story. Why the NFL does not have this same standard, who knows. I see both sides to this story.

YES! YES! YES! My points EXACTLY. Thanks for saying them so well.


So my summary:
Did Vick make a mistake? Yes
Is Vick getting a second chance? Yes, he's out of jail.
Should the NFL let Vick back in? NO NO NO

I'm really going to boycott the NFL. It won't make a difference I know, but I'm sick of the drugs, sexual offenses, convictions, etc. This was the final straw.

[Taffi Abernathy]

Originally Posted by mfer

YES! YES! YES! My points EXACTLY. Thanks for saying them so well.


So my summary:
Did Vick make a mistake? Yes
Is Vick getting a second chance? Yes, he's out of jail.
Should the NFL let Vick back in? NO NO NO

I'm really going to boycott the NFL. It won't make a difference I know, but I'm sick of the drugs, sexual offenses, convictions, etc. This was the final straw.

I quite agree, nothing like a sense of narcissistic entitlement. If the rest of us must be accountable for our actions, it's about time we held celebrities' feet to the proverbial flame. For each time a celebrity skates by after behaving badly, and without consequences, it solidifies that person's sense of invincibility and narcissism

[ratae1950]

What the NFL and the Eagles show us is that money trumps morality. Hopefully justice will be served 'cold' by the opposing team players early on in the season.

[DARK_KNIGHT]

On the subjective portion of paying a debt back to society.............I doubt society had any benefit from VICK being in jail to begin with, it was a tax payer burden for 1.8 years. Society would have benefited from him playing and the total amount of his paycheck donated to animal abuse centers. Punishment would have been: no car's. no cellphones, no fine threads, no watches, no t.v., no travel, no credit cards, not out after 7:00 p.m., having to sleep in a half way house.............

Fairness has nothing to do with it.

He is back, such is the law. If I were the first string QB of the Eagles, I would be worried about my job. VICK (could) play. He'll make the big bucks, get the babes, drive hot rod's, keep his mansion..............those dog's will still be dead. The world continues to spin on its axis.....................

[Taffi Abernathy]

Originally Posted by DARK_KNIGHT

On the subjective portion of paying a debt back to society.............I doubt society had any benefit from VICK being in jail to begin with, it was a tax payer burden for 1.8 years. Society would have benefited from him playing and the total amount of his paycheck donated to animal abuse centers. Punishment would have been: no car's. no cellphones, no fine threads, no watches, no t.v., no travel, no credit cards, not out after 7:00 p.m., having to sleep in a half way house.............

Fairness has nothing to do with it.
He is back, such is the law. If I were the first string QB of the Eagles, I would be worried about my job. VICK (could) play. He'll make the big bucks, get the babes, drive hot rod's, keep his mansion..............those dog's will still be dead. The world continues to spin on its axis.....................

A cogent argument, Dark Knight! I think we should harness Vick, tether him to an outdoor pole and feed him kibble. Do you concur?

[rsg]

I don't really follow football, but if he served his time and the NFL wants to bring him back so be it. We have a judicial system for a reason.

As far as morality is concerned.....I would never participate in dog fighting or a rodeo for that matter, but I will greedily eat a big fat steak knowing full well how livestock is treated at cattle ranches, chicken farms, pig farms, etc.
I will also sign up for medical treatment knowing full well that the medication/device was most likely tested on animals, some of which will have suffered much more than Vicks dogs.

[DARK_KNIGHT]

Originally Posted by Taffi Abernathy

A cogent argument, Dark Knight! I think we should harness Vick, tether him to an outdoor pole and feed him kibble. Do you concur?

My (Very) Fair Lady:


Just imagine:

In 1.8 years of jail + the trial (if there was one) and even the proceedings, must have cost tax payers a cool $50,000.00 . Yet if Vick would have been forced to play with zero take home pay (minus say humble living expenses of $2,000.00 per month for food and toiletries) , in 1.8 years (round it off to two full years), he could have earned around US $5 million dollars (maybe more). After expenses and such, maybe a net of $3 million dollars could have been put to use to help animals in general. He would have been working his ass-off and getting nothing in return except baloney sandwiches and milk, forcing him to commute to work by bus or by bicycle, with zero female contact, etc...... now that is big time punishment. Of course my proposed solution would not hold any weight in the legal system but dreaming is still free.

The simple version is, I concur with you in everything, cause frankly you are a smart chic !

[watchman67]

I think the guy deserves a second chance.

God knows I love animals and I think my parents would take their dogs over the rest of the family but give me a break. I don't condone animal abuse but these were friggin animals.

Pedophiles, murderers and rapists get less publicity. I think this case really showed where we were at as Americans and that is not good.

When the lives of animals become a priority over human life. . .
Now, how I really feel . . .

[unclesallie]

Vick engaged in stupid, venal, ugly acts. He was caught, humiliated publicly, prosecuted federally, imprisoned, and now is out and looking for a job. The people who have talked privately with him as well as prominent animal rights groups have concluded he can do more good on the football field promoting kindness to animals as 'one who has learned his lesson' than in obscurity. And by the way, unless you've ever been in a prison for at least a few hours, you've got absolutely zero idea about what two years of being locked up means. In the final analysis, I think people are generally entitled to a second chance. It may be that Vick will gain consciousness, and do a lot of good in what might become a life filled with good actions. I think it was Ghandi who reportedly told a Hindu man who confessed to murdering a Muslim, that he could avoid eternal damnation if he adopted the Muslim man's son...and raised him as a Muslim. Vick might yet accomplish much if he acts to donate money and time to promoting kindness to animals.

[Ed Rooney]

Originally Posted by AIKO

No, he was an average at best QB before all this dog stuff.

Exactly. He's Kyle Boller with speed and some moves, but still a 53% passer and 75 career passer rating who never threw for 3000 yards in a season. The only reason he achieved those stats was Alge Crumpler.

[AIKO]

I am surprised that people are not more upset with the NFL over Leonard Little and Donte Stallworth. They both killed HUMAN BEINGS in DUI crashes. They served way less time in jail than Vick. Little played several more years in the league and Stallworth will likely be welcomed back next year after serving 28 days. I decision to drink and drive which results in the death of a person is much more serious than the Vick business IMO.

[Taffi Abernathy]

Originally Posted by DARK_KNIGHT

My (Very) Fair Lady:


Just imagine:

In 1.8 years of jail + the trial (if there was one) and even the proceedings, must have cost tax payers a cool $50,000.00 . Yet if Vick would have been forced to play with zero take home pay (minus say humble living expenses of $2,000.00 per month for food and toiletries) , in 1.8 years (round it off to two full years), he could have earned around US $5 million dollars (maybe more). After expenses and such, maybe a net of $3 million dollars could have been put to use to help animals in general. He would have been working his ass-off and getting nothing in return except baloney sandwiches and milk, forcing him to commute to work by bus or by bicycle, with zero female contact, etc...... now that is big time punishment. Of course my proposed solution would not hold any weight in the legal system but dreaming is still free.

The simple version is, I concur with you in everything, cause frankly you are a smart chic !

I commend you on your astute observations, and have but one question: Why are you no longer on the PR thread? Go back, go back.

[keschete]

Originally Posted by AIKO

I am surprised that people are not more upset with the NFL over Leonard Little and Donte Stallworth. They both killed HUMAN BEINGS in DUI crashes. They served way less time in jail than Vick. Little played several more years in the league and Stallworth will likely be welcomed back next year after serving 28 days. I decision to drink and drive which results in the death of a person is much more serious than the Vick business IMO.

I think the issue with Stallworth is
1) He basically admitted that he was at least partially to blame by being drunk. (Vick did a lot of lying and pointing fingers)
2) The victim supposedly walked out in front of his car, so if Stallworth was not drunk, this might not have been his fault at all.
3) Stallworth tried to make amends with the family.

I think he is just as guilty as Vick, he deserves to be punished and his sentence is very light. The big difference is that the Stallworth thing was perceived by most people as an "accident". (I believe if you drink and drive and kill someone, that is murder)

Vick actually intentionally participated in the brutal treatment and deaths of helpless animals. So I think people see Vick as "purposely" commiting these violent acts.

I don't think they should get a free pass because they are good athletes. But, I can see why people in general are so angry about Vick.

Just a point of view.