Yes you should buy Rolexes that you love. But why can’t it also be an investment?

[JSCP]

Originally Posted by tekno

I can’t wait until the Rolex market crashes. It will get rid of all this silly nonsense and the guys who actually like watches will still be here, as always.

Your modern Rolex is not an investment.

it won’t and will still not get watch anyway .

[Zahnarzt]

Remember when “Flipper “ was a TV show about a dolphin?

[tekno]

Originally Posted by JSCP

it won’t and will still not get watch anyway .

I know, I can dream. The crazy modern Rolex prices pushes vintage up into the atmosphere.

I could care less about modern Rolex. I think the guys talking about watches holding value are the ones buying watches over msrp, spending money on credit, buying two watches to get the one they want etc etc.

I do see it slowing some, I recently took advantage of someone downsizing their collection. I got a smoking deal on a rare watch. I think there will eventually be a pop in the modern bubble to some degree.

Most Rolex will always be worth close to MSRP for steel if you keep it in good condition. In the past I remember steel & gold watches always being worth less than msrp, solid gold being the worst of the three in terms of loss of value.

In early 2000’s you could buy brand new watches w/box & papers for 10% under msrp. I think that ship sailed.

[jaychief]

Mentioned this before... Sold my car bought a few watches instead... but my initial luv will always be watchs but personally I do see them as a investment...

[Dave O]

Originally Posted by JSCP

Is not about a king money. It’s about not loosing. a lot of money. Meaning if you use for a trade or need to sell fro some
reason , your recoup some cash. That’s they key for some
people.

If you have a Panda and you need to sell you will make some money if that person need to add some cash for some reason.

Not for flipping is ok.

This is what I don't get. You inevitably lose money when you buy a new car. When you go on a nice vacation that money is lost. But most of us still do it. You don't see most people stopping from going on a nice vacation because they don't want to lose the money. They do it for the memories. To me, watches are to be loved, plain and simple.

I long for the day when we get back to this and we no longer have to talk about value retention and what watch is a good investment. And then, watches should be more plentiful as the investors will be out of the watch buying picture.

[Rico_Brasole]

Originally Posted by Dave O

This is what I don't get. You inevitably lose money when you buy a new car. When you go on a nice vacation that money is lost. But most of us still do it. You don't see most people stopping from going on a nice vacation because they don't want to lose the money. They do it for the memories. To me, watches are to be loved, plain and simple.

I long for the day when we get back to this and we no longer have to talk about value retention and what watch is a good investment. And then, watches should be more plentiful as the investors will be out of the watch buying picture.

Hang tight. Almost there


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[Rico_Brasole]

Originally Posted by tekno

I can’t wait until the Rolex market crashes. It will get rid of all this silly nonsense and the guys who actually like watches will still be here, as always.

Your modern Rolex is not an investment.

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[Tavli3]

My view on the topic is I do not consider mass produce modern sports watches as investments.

If I we’re to purchase an all original mint condition Paul Neuman, 6542, 6538, Milsub or 6641 and as much as they would make me drool just looking at them never mind wearing them I can assure you I would be viewing them as investment pieces also.


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[garyk]

Originally Posted by Babalaas

Grant it, I haven’t been here for as long as some. But I see a lot of snarky responses and dismissals for folks that are also trying to gauge whether Rolex watches will hold their value. Why is that a bad thing?

Yes, the primary criteria is how much we like these watches. But when one is putting down a large amount of capital, why is it a Holy Sin to even talk about how value retention will trend?

Genuinely curious. Cheers

Over time some Rolex watches do very well holding their value but if you seriously are an investor, there's way better investments. My band mates were discussing today AI as a potential investment sector...

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by Dave O

This is what I don't get. You inevitably lose money when you buy a new car. When you go on a nice vacation that money is lost. But most of us still do it. You don't see most people stopping from going on a nice vacation because they don't want to lose the money. They do it for the memories. To me, watches are to be loved, plain and simple.

I long for the day when we get back to this and we no longer have to talk about value retention and what watch is a good investment. And then, watches should be more plentiful as the investors will be out of the watch buying picture.

You are making too much sense.

[BraveBold]

Originally Posted by garyk

Over time some Rolex watches do very well holding their value but if you seriously are an investor, there's way better investments. My band mates were discussing today AI as a potential investment sector...

LOL. I assume the last sentence was a joke.

[BraveBold]

Originally Posted by Dave O

This is what I don't get. You inevitably lose money when you buy a new car. When you go on a nice vacation that money is lost. But most of us still do it. You don't see most people stopping from going on a nice vacation because they don't want to lose the money. They do it for the memories. To me, watches are to be loved, plain and simple.

I long for the day when we get back to this and we no longer have to talk about value retention and what watch is a good investment. And then, watches should be more plentiful as the investors will be out of the watch buying picture.

I think (certain) Rolexes are more the equivalent of buying a limited edition sports car, Ferrari, Porsche, etc. In which case buying new has not (necessarily) meant losing money. This isn’t a new phenomenon either.

[tekno]

I was just joking about the market crashing. I like to joke about it and if the market crashed I would buy up as many vintage Rolex/Tudor as I could.

The steel watches have always held their value (close to msrp) & increased over time. I don’t think the double to tripple msrp for some models will last forever. The steel/gold models will not stay as hot as they are now forever but they will never lose more than 20-30% msrp I doubt. I don’t see the new GMT being less than MSRP for awhile.

Steel Daytonas will never come down, even if the market corrects itself you will need to be a high end customer to get one from an AD but it’s been that way for years.

Guys that have been here long enough can tell you what happened during the housing crisis. It’s something to think of if you are over leveraged. If your trying to justify buying any steel sports watch for MSRP you will be OK.

If you are trying to justify buying a Pepsi or the new green GMT for $20-22k I would suggest you think twice. The guys that can afford to pay double aren’t in this thread.


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[alphadweller]

An asset you wear, which also happens to retain most of its value, sure. An investment making an actual profit, no, it's not meant to.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by garyk

Over time some Rolex watches do very well holding their value but if you seriously are an investor, there's way better investments. My band mates were discussing today AI as a potential investment sector...

Yea, in my universe watches are not high dollar enough to ever be considered a investment. It’s a lifestyle and quality of life I enjoy. Even if I could hustle a $100k flip in watches it still would be too much work and effort to be considered a true investment.

Thinking out loud: If you did buy a hot steel Rolex at stupid high grey market prices, you still probably won’t lose as much money percentage wise as buying a new omega or other similar brands at msrp. If you bought a BLRO at $20k and in the worst case scenario you sold in a crashed market for $10k, you still only lost 50% of your original purchase. I would argue if you are really bothered about losing $10k on a $20K watch, you probably shouldn’t be buying a $20k watch in the first place.

[pigman08]

I feel that value retention isn’t too much to hope for when buying and trading watches, however I certainly don’t expect it… In light of that, I found this thread was quite apropos for the timing of this article being published.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyl...eration-buyers


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[faimag]

Originally Posted by Zahnarzt

Remember when “Flipper “ was a TV show about a dolphin?

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Zahnarzt

Remember when “Flipper “ was a TV show about a dolphin?

[Babalaas]

All fair points. Thanks everyone!

[DAGMoney]

While no watch s/b considered an investment, it's nice to know that Rolex has been a relatively liquid store of value when it comes to the watch category.

When I bought my first in 1996 - a Bluesy - my AD told we that if times got tough, I could always turn it into cash. I still have it today...

[kaiserphoenix]

I think one thing to consider as a cause for all this value retention/investment talk is the meteoritic increase of MSRPs of watches compared to 20-50 years ago. I may be wrong but i feel it is a much larger financial commitment for an individual to buy a $15k watch now and hence more people are worried about the impact of this spend.

[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by DAGMoney

While no watch s/b considered an investment, it's nice to know that Rolex has been a relatively liquid store of value when it comes to the watch category.

When I bought my first in 1996 - a Bluesy - my AD told we that if times got tough, I could always turn it into cash. I still have it today...

And even better it can be converted into many different currencies and not only the one you bought it in.

[Rolexatlast]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Yea, in my universe watches are not high dollar enough to ever be considered a investment. It’s a lifestyle and quality of life I enjoy. Even if I could hustle a $100k flip in watches it still would be too much work and effort to be considered a true investment.

Thinking out loud: If you did buy a hot steel Rolex at stupid high grey market prices, you still probably won’t lose as much money percentage wise as buying a new omega or other similar brands at msrp. If you bought a BLRO at $20k and in the worst case scenario you sold in a crashed market for $10k, you still only lost 50% of your original purchase. I would argue if you are really bothered about losing $10k on a $20K watch, you probably shouldn’t be buying a $20k watch in the first place.

Depends on how many you bought…

[Krash]

There are 2 different things here to unpack.

1) Value Retention - Generally speaking, I think many folks on TRF are okay with considering value retention as a factor when buying a watch you like and expect to wear on a regular basis.

2) Investment - This is different. If you’re buying a watch because you think it’s a good investment, and you expect to make money off it, then that’s what people get upset at. (Flippers, for example.)

Those are 2 different things.


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[watchwatcher]

You're right, (kinda) in that it can be an investment. After all, there have been empires founded with what it costs to buy a Rolex these days.

However, the reason you see the resentment toward the word 'investment' on this forum is that most of our members have been around a while and understand the better path involves making your empire from other real investments and enjoying your luxury pursuits, be they watches or other things, from the fruits of those efforts.

The 'sin,' as you call it, lies with trying to amass a collection based on their "Investment" potential, like a portfolio. Again, most of us guys who've been around see the futility in that. Personally, I wonder why anyone would go through the trouble of buying and maintaining a watch that they weren't in love with, on the hope it makes a few bucks. Man, there's a lot better ways to make a few bucks if that's the goal.

[SilverFoxUK]

I say live and let live. For everyone who thinks watches should not be considered an 'investment' and are purely for wearing... that's fine. But consider how a person feels starting off in 'high-end'/luxury watches who has only ever spent £500 or £1000 before. Maybe they are not high-rollers. Maybe £7000 is a hell of a lot for them and the prospect of not losing much over 5 years or so, or breaking even, could be what makes them pull the trigger and get their first Rolex. That was my experience.

And to those who keep saying you can 'make more' in the stock market etc. - this is true (although it depends on risk and timing) - but most people diversify into assets as well as stocks/cash/bonds and the rest. Gold is an investment. You can also wear it. What's wrong with having some of your money in watches? Seems like a win-win if you enjoy wearing them and they don't lose or even make money.

[Dave O]

Originally Posted by SilverFoxUK

I say live and let live. For everyone who thinks watches should not be considered an 'investment' and are purely for wearing... that's fine. But consider how a person feels starting off in 'high-end'/luxury watches who has only ever spent £500 or £1000 before. Maybe they are not high-rollers. Maybe £7000 is a hell of a lot for them and the prospect of not losing much over 5 years or so, or breaking even, could be what makes them pull the trigger and get their first Rolex. That was my experience.

And to those who keep saying you can 'make more' in the stock market etc. - this is true (although it depends on risk and timing) - but most people diversify into assets as well as stocks/cash/bonds and the rest. Gold is an investment. You can also wear it. What's wrong with having some of your money in watches? Seems like a win-win if you enjoy wearing them and they don't lose or even make money.

Question - would you pull the trigger if you knew you would lose 10-20% as soon as you walked out of the AD? Many would not. When I bought my Breitling Navitimer, this is exactly what happened to me. But I didn't buy it for an investment, I bought it because it is a gorgeous watch and I fell in love with it. As such, a Breitling, Omega etc. are fairly easy to obtain from an AD.

And there in lies the problem. Many people purchase a Rolex for the mere reason they know they won't lose much if any money on it. So for us pure watch lovers, many are waiting years for their dream watch and just have to sit back and wait. But if Rolex wasn't considered an "investment" they just might be a little more attainable as the "investors" would just walk away and not purchase them in the first place. Anyway, my thoughts for what it is worth.

[SilverFoxUK]

Fair question and fair point well made. I think it's possible that several perspectives can be valid at the same time. To answer the question - yes I would if I really loved a watch. And I have done that (losing more than 10-20%). Not sure I would have bought my first Rolex if it lost its shirt though...however I still have it and love it even though I could have sold it for 3X at the peak.

Originally Posted by Dave O

Question - would you pull the trigger if you knew you would lose 10-20% as soon as you walked out of the AD? Many would not. When I bought my Breitling Navitimer, this is exactly what happened to me. But I didn't buy it for an investment, I bought it because it is a gorgeous watch and I fell in love with it. As such, a Breitling, Omega etc. are fairly easy to obtain from an AD.

And there in lies the problem. Many people purchase a Rolex for the mere reason they know they won't lose much if any money on it. So for us pure watch lovers, many are waiting years for their dream watch and just have to sit back and wait. But if Rolex wasn't considered an "investment" they just might be a little more attainable as the "investors" would just walk away and not purchase them in the first place. Anyway, my thoughts for what it is worth.

[kopi-c]

Originally Posted by Dave O

My two cents for what it is worth.

I do not like the fact that people either buy Rolex's for an investment or those that care enough about value retention that they would decide not to buy a watch because of the potential for losing money. For those people, I would prefer them to just not buy the watch. Why? Because of the current supply and demand issue. If those that bought watches as an investment, or those worried about value retention suddenly stopped buying watches there would be many more available for those of us that buy watches for the mere fact that we love them.

I have many watches where I lost money the day I purchased them (Omega Seamaster, Speedmaster and a Breitling Navitimer just to name a few). I could care less that I lost money on them the day I walked out of the AD. I bought them for what they are - beautiful time pieces.

Bottom line, I couldn't care less if the bottom dropped out of the Rolex market. It would make it a whole lot easier for us watch lovers to obtain a Rolex from an AD as all those worried about investments or value retention would just walk away.

Well said!

[Jerrocop]

Originally Posted by Dave O

Question - would you pull the trigger if you knew you would lose 10-20% as soon as you walked out of the AD? Many would not. When I bought my Breitling Navitimer, this is exactly what happened to me. But I didn't buy it for an investment, I bought it because it is a gorgeous watch and I fell in love with it. As such, a Breitling, Omega etc. are fairly easy to obtain from an AD.

A watch, such as yours, yes you’ll lose some value initially. It’ll take longer than a Rolex, but in time I think it’ll appreciate beyond the initial investment. Plus you’ll have the pleasure of wearing it in the meantime.


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