My AP Las Vegas “Journey” - A Cautionary Tale

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by Palex

My thoughts.

Often there are more sides to a story…

There is always another side to every story. That is why I try to reserve judgement until I've seen both sides. When you spend $400k in 2 years with a brand, it's highly unusual that they just drop you like that unless something else happened that we are not being made aware. We'll see where this thread goes.

[APJourneyFail]

Hi guys, sorry I'm late to reply as I've been at work until know. I'll try and answer some common questions/ remarks.

FIRST, I want to say THANK YOU for all the nice comments and sincere replies. It means a lot to me. I actually felt some relief just writing this post but even more as I've read your comments. It wasn't easy to write as I am a bit embarrassed that I fell for this scenario, I was expecting some harsh replies but most of these couldn't have been nicer or more sincere.

Second, I live rural and an AP boutique did open closer to me but AFTER I started my "journey" in Las Vegas. I actually did think about switching but was told by a few people it's better to stay at same boutique- plus I was already "in" with my SA in Vegas. In retrospect, I wish I had changed as it sound like experiences can be very SA dependent.

In my area we have a small collectors group centered around our profession. I also met some TRF members back in 2017/2018 and we text frequently. I finally joined and got a username to tell my story. My main goal is to hopefully prevent this from continuing. As a member posted - I'm sure it has happened to others but some may have been ashamed or embarrassed to post their story.

I've thought about switching now but honestly this has left a bad taste in my mouth. Had I gotten a watch from corporate I would have forgiven what happened, but the fact they couldn't be bothered to initially reply to emails or to offer something more significant has really changed my view of the company.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by APJourneyFail

Hi guys, sorry I'm late to reply as I've been at work until know. I'll try and answer some common questions/ remarks.

FIRST, I want to say THANK YOU for all the nice comments and sincere replies. It means a lot to me. I actually felt some relief just writing this post but even more as I've read your comments. It wasn't easy to write as I am a bit embarrassed that I fell for this scenario, I was expecting some harsh replies but most of these couldn't have been nicer or more sincere.

Second, I live rural and an AP boutique did open closer to me but AFTER I started my "journey" in Las Vegas. I actually did think about switching but was told by a few people it's better to stay at same boutique- plus I was already "in" with my SA in Vegas. In retrospect, I wish I had changed as it sound like experiences can be very SA dependent.

In my area we have a small collectors group centered around our profession. I also met some TRF members back in 2017/2018 and we text frequently. I finally joined and got a username to tell my story. My main goal is to hopefully prevent this from continuing. As a member posted - I'm sure it has happened to others but some may have been ashamed or embarrassed to post their story.

I've thought about switching now but honestly this has left a bad taste in my mouth. Had I gotten a watch from corporate I would have forgiven what happened, but the fact they couldn't be bothered to initially reply to emails or to offer something more significant has really changed my view of the company.

Just curious. You mentioned you sold one of the allocations you got. Was it just the one or were there others? Did you let the boutique know before the sale? Genuine question.

[MichelleP]

What a horrible way to treat a great client. If I were in your position, I'd probably never purchase another AP.
I had a similar situation with my Rolex Boutique. I called Rolex corporate. Never got a call back but a couple weeks later the Boutique manager texted to remind him what I was interested in. Got that watch a couple months later.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

Just curious. You mentioned you sold one of the allocations you got. Was it just the one or were there others? Did you let the boutique know before the sale? Genuine question.

Dude, who cares? The guy spent $400,000 with a company and they treated him that poorly.

Which other space would that be acceptable?

[huncho]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Dude, who cares? The guy spent $400,000 with a company and they treated him that poorly.

Which other space would that be acceptable?

it matters with AP and it's a valid question. they're strict about that stuff

still a shitty situation and way to be treated though

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by huncho

it matters with AP and it's a valid question. they're strict about that stuff

still a shitty situation and way to be treated though

It wouldn’t change the fact the sales person lied to him and AP didn’t do much to make it right lol

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Palex

He won’t be for long. I can see myself owning 3 Codes. I own one, since a month and find myself wearing it more than my RO’s. Really loving it!

Starwheel, QP and Onyx dial Tourbillon would be an epic three watch collection.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

It wouldn’t change the fact the sales person lied to him and AP didn’t do much to make it right lol

Well, technically, it's not clear the old SA lied - she may have had every intention to deliver one from OP's hodgepodge of grails by April '23, but then left for RM before she could get to it....

When he finally got their attention, AP produced what is probably the hottest of the 41mm steel RO/ROCs within a week as a consolation price. OP was "shocked", took his toys/money and went home. I can't help but think that that's one of many parts of this story once could have played differently.

[goog53]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Well, technically, it's not clear the old SA lied - she may have had every intention to deliver one from OP's hodgepodge of grails by April '23, but then left for RM before she could get to it....

When he finally got their attention, AP produced what is probably the hottest of the 41mm steel RO/ROCs within a week as a consolation price. OP was "shocked", took his toys/money and went home. I can't help but think that that's one of many parts of this story once could have played differently.

Can you save your sucking up to AP for your SA instead of on this thread? I don’t see any Codes on your signature line of watches The guy bought a bunch of dogs and is then offered an overhyped 41mm ROC with a Green Dial. OMG! He should book another flight, bow down, and thank them for the amazing allocation. This reference is something you get as a second or third allocation so let’s keep it real over here. If he was smart he would’ve taken the 41mm ROC and flipped it to make a few bucks instead I gotta give the guy credit for turning that doggy down and hoping AP delivers on something he actually wants and IMO and in many of the Forum members opinions thinks he should be allocated…CERAMIC something

[Akacoke]

Originally Posted by goog53

IMO and in many of the Forum members opinions thinks he should be allocated…CERAMIC something

IMO He should had pretty much free pick on 90% of the APs after the 100k code purchase.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by goog53

Can you save your sucking up to AP for your SA instead of on this thread? I don’t see any Codes on your signature line of watches The guy bought a bunch of dogs and is then offered an overhyped 41mm ROC with a Green Dial. OMG! He should book another flight, bow down, and thank them for the amazing allocation. This reference is something you get as a second or third allocation so let’s keep it real over here. If he was smart he would’ve taken the 41mm ROC and flipped it to make a few bucks instead I gotta give the guy credit for turning that doggy down and hoping AP delivers on something he actually wants and IMO and in many of the Forum members opinions thinks he should be allocated…CERAMIC something

Not unless a piece or two was sold without consultation with the boutique.

[incontrol]

I 100% agree with Akacoke. It feels disingenuous to say anything else. He was promised and so he was owed a chance at what he asked for.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by incontrol

I 100% agree with Akacoke. It feels disingenuous to say anything else. He was promised and so he was owed a chance at what he asked for.

"Again confirming with the SA that we would ask for my grail for 1st quarter or by April 2023." Not exactly a promise of anything - SAs can try their best, but they can't promise allocations that are decided far above their pay grade.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by goog53

Can you save your sucking up to AP for your SA instead of on this thread?

"Can I block posts, emails and messages from specific users?

If there are particular members that bother you and you do not want to see their posts or receive Private Messages and Emails from them, then you can add these members to your 'Ignore List'. There are several ways to do this:

Through your User Control Panel: User CP, Settings & Options, Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'."

You're welcome.

In other news, instead of treating OP's story as a morality play, I look it as a drawn-out negotiation, in which OP encountered some misfortune (like the ill-timed departure of his SA), but also made a long list of tactical mistakes, combining to an unsatisfactory outcome.

[Johndong888]

Dang this is terribly sad read. I would call out that SA. Just so messed up.

Def buy what you like. I’ll be damn right picky with my dial colors/materials. Tho there are times when pieces just need to be looked at in person. I was never a fan of the 15500s but the boutique had a white one to try and not going to lie, looked pretty good.


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[7sins]

OP, truly sorry for your unfortunate experience, this should never happen to anyone and I can't imagine how disheartened you feel.

This really highlights the importance of your SA and how they can be your biggest advocate. I hate to be the one of very few standing behind the brand (or maybe it is just Vogel and myself here haha), but I would not extrapolate this experience across the entire brand. Personally, I have worked with my SA since she started 7 years ago, she is now a manager at an AP house. She has been remarkable in every way, has never asked me to purchase a watch I do not want and has gone above and beyond in almost every instance. Especially considering this is LA where the spend history of their other customers surely supersedes mine. While I have not received a ceramic, nor have I asked for one, I eventually always received my request within a reasonable time frame - I received the very first 26240st green dial in California for the 50th anniversary. Interestingly enough, once this AP House opened I noticed the time windows have been reduced, presuming they receive many more allocations. Sadly, it appears your SA took advantage of you and I find it precarious that you were treated by AP NA that way, that is unacceptable.

I have heard of many similar instances to the OP from collectors at RM, Patek, ALS etc, it is an unfortunate byproduct of the industry. Knowing the right people can go a long way. I had a close friend who had a similar horrible experience with AP SCP, he was then connected with a nomad, bought a 15510, a ladies watch and then was offered a RO tourbillon (26735) as his third watch - he made a considerable donation to a charity that AP noticed on his linkedin and associated him as the type of character they want endorsing the brand.

Point being, I am not here to "suck up to the brand" or stand behind the mistreatment of customers, however I know I am not the only one who has been fortunate to have a very positive experience with AP. Try the nomad program and see if that is a better fit or an AP house, assuming you want to stay with AP.

Originally Posted by incontrol

I started to buy AP when the AD was Westime. I bought two very nice models, A ROO in blue and gray ceramic and a RO QP blue dial in SS. I was thrilled. Then Westime lost their AD status and I was left in the lurch. No one was interested in talking to me about any other watches in AP. Whatever I bought and still owned was lost to history as far as AP was concerned and I had to start over as if I owned nothing.

FYI this should not be the case, I started buying watches from AP BH 7 years ago when they were Westime. Once acquired by AP, I had no issue having my watches registered in the system and goes toward my AP purchase history.

[Akacoke]

Sad thing is this SA will do it over and over at RM to the unawaring customers who would let her.

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by goog53

Can you save your sucking up to AP for your SA instead of on this thread? I don’t see any Codes on your signature line of watches The guy bought a bunch of dogs and is then offered an overhyped 41mm ROC with a Green Dial. OMG! He should book another flight, bow down, and thank them for the amazing allocation. This reference is something you get as a second or third allocation so let’s keep it real over here. If he was smart he would’ve taken the 41mm ROC and flipped it to make a few bucks instead I gotta give the guy credit for turning that doggy down and hoping AP delivers on something he actually wants and IMO and in many of the Forum members opinions thinks he should be allocated…CERAMIC something

Hah thanks for saying what I didn't have the balls to write on here. This thread reminded me of one time when I tried visiting AP in the crystals. Didn't realize the door was locked even though it was during regular operating hours, the SA just yelled we have nothing to sell you we are closed. It was a bizarre interaction.

[watchman124]

Originally Posted by 7sins

OP, truly sorry for your unfortunate experience, this should never happen to anyone and I can't imagine how disheartened you feel.

This really highlights the importance of your SA and how they can be your biggest advocate. I hate to be the one of very few standing behind the brand (or maybe it is just Vogel and myself here haha), but I would not extrapolate this experience across the entire brand. Personally, I have worked with my SA since she started 7 years ago, she is now a manager at an AP house. She has been remarkable in every way, has never asked me to purchase a watch I do not want and has gone above and beyond in almost every instance. Especially considering this is LA where the spend history of their other customers surely supersedes mine. While I have not received a ceramic, nor have I asked for one, I eventually always received my request within a reasonable time frame - I received the very first 26240st green dial in California for the 50th anniversary. Interestingly enough, once this AP House opened I noticed the time windows have been reduced, presuming they receive many more allocations. Sadly, it appears your SA took advantage of you and I find it precarious that you were treated by AP NA that way, that is unacceptable.

I have heard of many similar instances to the OP from collectors at RM, Patek, ALS etc, it is an unfortunate byproduct of the industry. Knowing the right people can go a long way. I had a close friend who had a similar horrible experience with AP SCP, he was then connected with a nomad, bought a 15510, a ladies watch and then was offered a RO tourbillon (26735) as his third watch - he made a considerable donation to a charity that AP noticed on his linkedin and associated him as the type of character they want endorsing the brand.

Point being, I am not here to "suck up to the brand" or stand behind the mistreatment of customers, however I know I am not the only one who has been fortunate to have a very positive experience with AP. Try the nomad program and see if that is a better fit or an AP house, assuming you want to stay with AP.



FYI this should not be the case, I started buying watches from AP BH 7 years ago when they were Westime. Once acquired by AP, I had no issue having my watches registered in the system and goes toward my AP purchase history.

Your SA is who I just changed to and she's the absolute best!!! Saved AP for me.

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

Not unless a piece or two was sold without consultation with the boutique.

That is the ridiculousness and self-righteousness that is AP Las Vegas. What a joke. They led him down a path of promises and “trust me’s”, and knowingly, both to him and his SA, he bought pieces he didn’t want, so God forbid he sold a piece. Lol

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

"Can I block posts, emails and messages from specific users?



If there are particular members that bother you and you do not want to see their posts or receive Private Messages and Emails from them, then you can add these members to your 'Ignore List'. There are several ways to do this:



Through your User Control Panel: User CP, Settings & Options, Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'."



You're welcome.



In other news, instead of treating OP's story as a morality play, I look it as a drawn-out negotiation, in which OP encountered some misfortune (like the ill-timed departure of his SA), but also made a long list of tactical mistakes, combining to an unsatisfactory outcome.

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

"Again confirming with the SA that we would ask for my grail for 1st quarter or by April 2023." Not exactly a promise of anything - SAs can try their best, but they can't promise allocations that are decided far above their pay grade.

Do you work for AP?

[dchang81]

https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/15/new...ude/index.html

[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by goog53

Does anyone on the planet own 3 Code 11:59s besides the OP?

Sounds like a CODE 11.59 hater to me. I have a few friends who actually owned more than 3 CODEs and they actually love/wear them more than their RO/ROOs collection. You have to actually put them on the wrist to experience the comfort. On a side note, they are collectors big enough not to go the direction of "buy a CODE to be allocated a RO" tactics.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by nyc2la

That is the ridiculousness and self-righteousness that is AP Las Vegas. What a joke.

I'm sorry that you don't understand, but that is AP as a brand and not boutique specific. It's no different than PP finding out you sold a Nautilus in a short period of time or your AD finds out you sold your Daytona, Pespsi, etc...
FPJ is no different. You sell an FPJ, see what happens to your chances of getting anything else.

No different in brands like Ferrari. Maybe it's new to you, but that is the unfortunate reality at the moment.

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

I'm sorry that you don't understand, but that is AP as a brand and not boutique specific. It's no different than PP finding out you sold a Nautilus in a short period of time or your AD finds out you sold your Daytona, Pespsi, etc...
FPJ is no different. You sell an FPJ, see what happens to your chances of getting anything else.

No different in brands like Ferrari. Maybe it's new to you, but that is the unfortunate reality at the moment.

Haha. I understand the watch industry and buying in-demand luxury goods, thanks for your help, though.

You missed the other point, conveniently. Again, AP (fine, any boutique, but AP Las Vegas in this case) led him down a path of promises and “trust me’s”, and knowingly, both to him and his SA, he bought pieces he didn’t want, so God forbid he sold a piece. That’s the ridiculousness that is this hobby. He sold a watch, OMG!

And sorry, but Journe would never lead a customer down a path like that. They actually do it the right way. They want you to buy what you want. It’s a very transparent and mutual path to buying watches, even if it takes time.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by nyc2la

Haha. I understand the watch industry and buying in-demand luxury goods, thanks for your help, though.

You missed the other point, conveniently. Again, AP (fine, any boutique, but AP Las Vegas in this case) led him down a path of promises and “trust me’s”, and knowingly, both to him and his SA, he bought pieces he didn’t want, so God forbid he sold a piece. That’s the ridiculousness that is this hobby. He sold a watch, OMG!

And sorry, but Journe would never lead a customer down a path like that. They actually do it the right way. They want you to buy what you want. It’s a very transparent and mutual path to buying watches, even if it takes time.

Agree that this hobby has come to this, but that is the environment we are currently in.

Maybe some don't understand the AP allocation process for the Jumbo and higher complication pieces. The SA and the boutique do not control those allocations. They can only advocate for you to corporate who makes the final decision. At that point, your time with the brand and diversity of your collection is crucial. I too went through the "journey" to strengthen my profile to get approval pieces I wanted. The only difference is I had been collecting AP's way before the Covid craze, ROO's and RO's that gave me the diversity and time with brand already. It also helped that I had the same SA for over 7 years. I even offered to buy a Code and was told not to buy anything I didn't want. And yes, from this very Las Vegas boutique. If I want to sell any pieces they got me, I always let them know my intentions of moving on from the piece before I sell.

You are right about Journe. They don't lead you down any particular path. You just can't get ANYTHING without waiting for a long time and attending event after event for what they call engaging with the brand. Nothing wrong with that either. I'm going through that journey as well and will continue to do so as I have genuine interest in collecting them. Having said that, you're not getting a CO or Resonance without having CS's and Automatiques first (profile building?). Not that I've seen anyways since Covid. After the long journey, see what happens if you sell one of those Journes.. Just saying. It's unfortunate Covid brought about this craziness to this hobby.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by nyc2la

Do you work for AP?

I don't understand why everyone get's so worked up over simple facts. The SA's cannot promise rare allocations on fixed time lines, because they do not control these allocations. They can promise to try, which most adults would understand is not the same thing.

I'm also amused by the idea that the first SA did OP dirty by selling him 9 watches during the craziest hype bubble in the history of the Swiss watch industry. At the time of purchase, even the ROO/Code "dogs", as one other poster kindly put it, were trading at about retail. At least 5 (2 ROs, ROC, RO diver and ROO ME) were listing at significant/ridiculous premiums at that time. Less FOMO, more common sense would have been the right recipe.

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

I don't understand why everyone get's so worked up over simple facts. The SA's cannot promise rare allocations on fixed time lines, because they do not control these allocations. They can promise to try, which most adults would understand is not the same thing.

I'm also amused by the idea that the first SA did OP dirty by selling him 9 watches during the craziest hype bubble in the history of the Swiss watch industry. At the time of purchase, even the ROO/Code "dogs", as one other poster kindly put it, were trading at about retail. At least 5 (2 ROs, ROC, RO diver and ROO ME) were listing at significant/ridiculous premiums at that time. Less FOMO, more common sense would have been the right recipe.

But back to the basics, the OP said he bought 9 watches, in multiple “families” of the AP line, and he bought both men’s and women’s watches. People on here, and I imagine elsewhere, have bought significantly less and gotten pieces that the OP deemed grails. That’s the issue, the lack of consistency. And why would an SA confidently and continually preach, “Trust me. I’ve done this before for my other clients…etc….”?

So, what is a customer supposed to believe? Does some faith have to be put into the process? Trust the process? I suppose not.

Again, per the OP, he brings this up as a “cautionary tale” so others don’t fall for the same games they play.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by dchang81

Hah thanks for saying what I didn't have the balls to write on here. This thread reminded me of one time when I tried visiting AP in the crystals. Didn't realize the door was locked even though it was during regular operating hours, the SA just yelled we have nothing to sell you we are closed. It was a bizarre interaction.

lol hahahahah that’s insane


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