Faingator problems, I need some good advice

[Vincent65]

I don't think disclosure could have been any fuller, nor any more pressure applied, especially regarding a few seconds fast and a bit of regulation/maybe a service...

[hsfrank]

Originally Posted by MonBK

If you actually read this thread you'll find that the seller turned this down.

, I actually posted in the middle of the read

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by hsfrank

, I actually posted in the middle of the read

Happens all the time.

[subtona]

Woody, Glad you have it sorted out & nice to see the abundance of members who offered their wisdom & assistance.
Especially good to see cooler heads prevail & find a solution to make you able to enjoy your most excellent choice of a watch.

[psv]

It is hard to sell a lot of watches without running into some unhappy customers. How you deal with those customers is how your reputation and trustworthiness is defined. In a small and vocal community like this, it is better to take the side of the customer IMO.

I've communicated with Richard/Faingator a number of times, never bought a watch from him though, but my impressions are that he doesn't appear to be dishonest. I've had to return watches a couple of times after purchases, I always ship first and then get the refund which is the common practice around here. Even if you believe that you have been "cheated" (hey, as pointed out, a watch can be spot on one week, 20 sec off the next, it might not be the seller's fault), I think Richard/Faingator has been here long enough that you should simply have returned the watch to him and awaited your refund, just make sure you have his complete name/phone number/address.

I hope it all works out.

[handsfull]

Communicating with someone and actually doing business with them are two completely different/separate experiences.

It is the sellers responsibility to accurately describe the condition. I don't care if the seller is blind, that has absolutely ZERO bearing on their responsibility to accurately describe the condition. The condition includes the '+- per day' the movement is producing. If they don't know this information, they should note that in their listing. Faingators listings are always vague/nondescript....and that in itself is a SERIOUS red flag....intentional or not.

[RRsDJ]

Originally Posted by subtona

enjoy your most excellent choice of a watch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FNFZ4]

Originally Posted by R_Ongjoco

This is why I love TRF (and e46, I know you post there ) So many great people on here out to help other members.

I try not to post at e46.. because people there always ask me, you drive a 323ci (which was my old car) and youre selling 50k worth of watches...

They do have a point... but now I dont have a 2000 323ci... I now upgraded to a 2001 Honda Civic Coupe EX baby!

[Island Dreamer]

Originally Posted by FNFZ4

Here is my 2 cents on this....

Both sides have a point. But I would like to point out a few things....

Woody, Faingator (i have never dealt with him) I think he will not scam you into not returning your money. If that was his MO, Then as soon as he got the wire, then no watch would have arrived. The only thing is that, he sold you a watch that is running outside COSC standards.

I am not siding with him but I, as a seller myself in our wonderful TRF, would do the same thing of asking for the watch first, inspecting it and then issuing a refund. I would also pay for return shipping and when i refund the money I add the cost of wire transactions.

If you want to pay for shipping send the watch to me and I will have it serviced for you with a full FNFZ4 2 year warranty! FREE OF CHARGE!

I hope this gets resolved in an amicable way. its really dangerous to claim something that is out of our hands. A watch might be running within COSC specs one day and way outside of it the next. I have seen that happen.

Merry Christmas to all of you!

as a reminder... Love... Not War!

Wow! Impressive. Integrity personified. Reason now I only purchase from TRF!

Thank you,

"Island Dreamer"

[Knappo 1307]

Faingator will never see a dime of my money....

[springer]

Originally Posted by welshwatchman

since going back in time is not an option, i'd opt for an insistence that he wire the money prior to the return of the unsatisfactory watch.

I assume he's not a well regarded member here.

A trip to the seller's residence/place of work would also be on the table.

x2.

[93 Turbo]

Given the amount of watches being moved by trusted sellers here, these guys & girls (sellers) are either dealing with these types of issues with their buyers successfully or watches are received without servicing issues, and the watches are as described by the TRUSTED SELLER.

This seller is either the unluckiest guy on this forum or he is misrepresenting at times the watches he is selling.

Now I've had a number of watches sent half way around the world, both RSC serviced by the seller prior to shipping and non serviced. With no issues regarding regulation.

What's frustrating is the good guys Greg/Mosco & FNFZ4, have resolved the situation for the buyers on more than one occasion with watches sold by this seller.

It is disheartening that the seller did not have the fortitude to meet with the buyer or another trusted member of the forum.

To that end I contribute a small amount of $ to the forum on the basis that I trust the sellers here are vetted to a degree and dealt with when they breach the trust of a buyer on more than one occasion.

Seems to me you can swear and get banned from the forum in the blink of an eye, but it's okay to misrepresent a watch worth thousands and keep on doing so.

Some regulation has to be put in place for sellers who repeatedly break the trust of honest collectors and buyers on the forum.

[Pilotwatch]

Very interesting post! Adds to my morning routine of reading TRF and coffee. That Faingator doesn't fit in with the crowd here on TRF. He tarnishes the forum.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by Pilotwatch

That Faingator doesn't fit in with the crowd here on TRF. He tarnishes the forum.

I am aware that there has been chat off the boards regarding the reason for Faingator's non-removal from the forums.

He has the same privileges as other members.

The "truster TRF seller" label is not one that officially exists. The ARE NO TRF SELLERS, only members who enjoy the free service.

There is such a thing as a reputation though.

Greg (Mosco) and Alfred (FNFZ) have great reputations, alongside quite a few others.

Faingator does not have this level of reputation and doesn't seem to want to do anything about it. He will undoubtedly sell fewer watches.

Be sure, though. Much more of this sort of tale from his customers and he will warrant a compulsory "Buyer Beware" signature.



As for the free service/Czechman-selling-at-a-profit thing, I'm sure that Woody has or will make good with Alfred if the watch sells at a good profit.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by Pilotwatch

Very interesting post! Adds to my morning routine of reading TRF and coffee. That Faingator doesn't fit in with the crowd here on TRF. He tarnishes the forum.

I agree wholeheartedly......

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Pilotwatch

Very interesting post! Adds to my morning routine of reading TRF and coffee. That Faingator doesn't fit in with the crowd here on TRF. He tarnishes the forum.

I am not sure that that is a fair assesment of him. He has been around a long time and has sold many many watches on here successfully. The OP seems like a man who is hard to please. The watch at one point he was happy with. Then it ran outside of specs. He raised hell.

Faingator would have returned his money. He is not going to rob the guy on a forum he has done so much business on. He just requested the watch back to inspect it. The OP's non stop grumbling got him a free service from a member who had no stake in it. Did the OP offer to pay for this to the helpful member or just send the watch back for a refund? No he played a game of semantics with Faingator and tried to rally other members around him.


There is no way I would sell a watch to the OP. Ever. Too much of a headache and I have bought and sold successfuly 7 Rolex on TRF.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

I am not sure that that is a fair assesment of him. He has been around a long time and has sold many many watches on here successfully. The OP seems like a man who is hard to please. The watch at one point he was happy with. Then it ran outside of specs. He raised hell.

Faingator would have returned his money. He is not going to rob the guy on a forum he has done so much business on. He just requested the watch back to inspect it. The OP's non stop grumbling got him a free service from a member who had no stake in it. Did the OP offer to pay for this to the helpful member or just send the watch back for a refund? No he played a game of semantics with Faingator and tried to rally other members around him.


There is no way I would sell a watch to the OP. Ever. Too much of a headache and I have bought and sold successfuly 7 Rolex on TRF.

As much as I disliked FainG's take in this ordeal I think you're bringing up a valid point.

[NKflyer]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

I am not sure that that is a fair assesment of him. He has been around a long time and has sold many many watches on here successfully. The OP seems like a man who is hard to please. The watch at one point he was happy with. Then it ran outside of specs. He raised hell.

Faingator would have returned his money. He is not going to rob the guy on a forum he has done so much business on. He just requested the watch back to inspect it. The OP's non stop grumbling got him a free service from a member who had no stake in it. Did the OP offer to pay for this to the helpful member or just send the watch back for a refund? No he played a game of semantics with Faingator and tried to rally other members around him.


There is no way I would sell a watch to the OP. Ever. Too much of a headache and I have bought and sold successfuly 7 Rolex on TRF.

x2

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

I am aware that there has been chat off the boards regarding the reason for Faingator's non-removal from the forums.

He has the same privileges as other members.

The "truster TRF seller" label is not one that officially exists. The ARE NO TRF SELLERS, only members who enjoy the free service.

There is such a thing as a reputation though.

Greg (Mosco) and Alfred (FNFZ) have great reputations, alongside quite a few others.

Faingator does not have this level of reputation and doesn't seem to want to do anything about it. He will undoubtedly sell fewer watches.

Be sure, though. Much more of this sort of tale from his customers and he will warrant a compulsory "Buyer Beware" signature.



As for the free service/Czechman-selling-at-a-profit thing, I'm sure that Woody has or will make good with Alfred if the watch sells at a good profit.

THIS........

[Kringkily]

A seller is always judged by his post customer service. I'm just glad Alfred was able to help and he is a good fellow and friend.

[waQstar]

A member here, who I have bought from got robbed in person, the prospect buyer just grabbed his explorer and ran out the bank, so F2F is very risky at times, i have never dealt either with the OP or with the seller, but if a full refund was offered, I think the seller was fair to evaluate before refunding.
As for the buyer he bought and paid for the watch based on trust, same trust was in order when expecting a refund.

[joseluu]

Well, I had decided to forget my personal interaction with this faingator person, but I am seeing too much going for him and I want to balance things again. As some have said, he may have sold lots of watches without a glitch. We can all do that. The question is, what happens when the glitch shows up?

I bought a watch from him that was sent to a friend of mine in NY who graciously undertook to bring it to me in Spain during his visit for Chrstmas holidays. The watch arrived in my hands roughly a month after it had been shipped to my friend in NY. I open it up ant there it is: a brand new Rolex GMT. I salivate a little and... back to the box. Then I notice a tear on the back of the box.

I write to this faingator person and tell him the news. He just sais he is not going to be made respondible for a watch that had been in my friend´s possesion for so long. I said fine. That is it.

But I want to share with you the story because my friend brought the watch to me WITHOUT OPENING THE PACKAGE and the tear was ON THE GREEN BOX which was shielded under the outer box and the sleeve. The tear had been carefully glued, by the way, so there is not even the "I did not see it" defence.

Of course, I don´t give a damm about the price a box after buying a watch of such value, but apparently this faingator person values the box more than a customer.

And that is what I want to share with you now, how little value this faingator person puts on his customers.

[1kw]

As innocent bystander it seems to me that a lot of harsh language has bee made against the seller over 15 seconds a day. I personally would not even notice it, but that's me.

[Pilotwatch]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

I am not sure that that is a fair assesment of him. He has been around a long time and has sold many many watches on here successfully. The OP seems like a man who is hard to please. The watch at one point he was happy with. Then it ran outside of specs. He raised hell.

Faingator would have returned his money. He is not going to rob the guy on a forum he has done so much business on. He just requested the watch back to inspect it. The OP's non stop grumbling got him a free service from a member who had no stake in it. Did the OP offer to pay for this to the helpful member or just send the watch back for a refund? No he played a game of semantics with Faingator and tried to rally other members around him.


There is no way I would sell a watch to the OP. Ever. Too much of a headache and I have bought and sold successfuly 7 Rolex on TRF.

I agree with much you have said here, but the seller does not fit in with folks here who buy and sell expensive watches on trust alone. As you can imagine with the strong personalities from all walks of life who frequent the forum, successful sellers on TRF go to great lengths at times to maintain their reputation, to include losing money on the deal. My opinion is that the seller is not a crook, was not going to rob the OP, but his focus was on the $ and not what is far more valuable, his reputation. Overstating, or embellishing a watch's condition is irresponsible. As a fairly new member here, it took me several months of watching exchanges between TRF members, buyers and sellers before I was inspired to join. That inspiration was built on trust and respect. Some of which is missing in this deal.

[patb]

The actions of the sellers caused me to rule him out as someone I would buy a watch from. Character is not build by someone actions when every thing goes right, but buy how problems are resolved when they arise.

[djemmtee]

Originally Posted by gaijin

i am not sure that that is a fair assesment of him. He has been around a long time and has sold many many watches on here successfully. The op seems like a man who is hard to please. The watch at one point he was happy with. Then it ran outside of specs. He raised hell.

Faingator would have returned his money. He is not going to rob the guy on a forum he has done so much business on. He just requested the watch back to inspect it. The op's non stop grumbling got him a free service from a member who had no stake in it. Did the op offer to pay for this to the helpful member or just send the watch back for a refund? No he played a game of semantics with faingator and tried to rally other members around him.


There is no way i would sell a watch to the op. Ever. Too much of a headache and i have bought and sold successfuly 7 rolex on trf.

x3

[Czechman]

For those of you who came in late and can't take the time to read all these posts here is the short version:

1. Faingator lied about the condition of the watch and he's done it before.

2. Faingator REFUSED a face to face refund.
Did you read that?
Do I have to repeat it?
Okay one more time!
FAINGATOR REFUSED A FACE TO FACE REFUND!
Are you beginning to get the picture now?

3. There is no way I am sending a person with his scruples the watch so that he can receive and inspect it in private and then tell me that I screwed up his watch and offer a partial refund.




.

[Czechman]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

The OP's non stop grumbling got him a free service from a member who had no stake in it. Did the OP offer to pay for this to the helpful member or just send the watch back for a refund? No he played a game of semantics with Faingator and tried to rally other members around him.

Bullshit. I did, in fact pay for shipping, parts and gave a decent tip. The service was offered because Alfred knows I'm an honest guy.

Get you facts straight before you shoot your mouth off.





.

[Czechman]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

There is no way I would sell a watch to the OP. Ever. Too much of a headache and I have bought and sold successfuly 7 Rolex on TRF.

And what makes you think I would buy a watch from someone who supports sellers who lie about the condition of their watches and then refuse a refund over an honest man who complains about such behavior?

Don't you people even think before you type?





.

[samuel019]

Well Ive read this entire thread and can see it from both sides. I had the EXACT same thing happen to me last July. However my purchase was on eBay. The issue with mine was it was running slow. I contacted the seller which was about 4 days after the purchase via email on a Sunday to tell him of the concerns. What did he do? He sent me a prepaid shipping label to his watch maker to have watch completely over hauled. For FREE. No shipping costs. No nothing. I got watch back in about 10 days total looking and running great. So I can relate to what Woody felt. Naturally your first reaction is anger and frustration. You just got thru spending thousands of dollars and now your watch doesnt run right. As far as Faingator goes I feel IMHO he couldve done maybe a little more other than a refund. Im sure with all his dealings with watches he's bound to know a watchmaker. So maybe he couldve offered a repair or something. But in his defense as with my seller ANYTHING couldve happened during the shipping. But at the end of the day its what you do after the sale that makes the difference. My praises go out to those who offered a free service. TRF is really an amazing community with for more great transactions than negative. Just my 2 cents...