Disagreement with a Grey Dealer - Opinions Needed

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by hsfrank

x2

One other point. I agree that the damage to the lugs is indicative of gross carelessness in removing the bracelet. However, it is an 11 year old watch. Even though it is described as "like new" one should expect some minor non visual to others damage such as minor hairlines on the underside. I know this damage is disturbing and I would certainly return it.

I agree with your statement. And I would certainly accept minor hairlines or even moderate scratches without complaining.

The lugs end links were deformed from the damage, one so much that it rubs on the next lug, so it is "stiff" as indicated in my last picture.

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by CharlieR6VED

I appreciate that in the US it may well be different but in the UK if an item that you bought online is faulty then the seller is obliged to return you to the position you were in prior to purchase, if you just change your mind they are not.

I was not actually aware of this until recently when I had to send back two watches from the same supplier in relatively quick succession, I did some research and it turned out I was entitled to a full refund including the return shipping cost.

As I say may not be the same laws regarding distance selling regulations in the US, but worth a little research.

Charlie

This is exactly what I want. No reasonable person would buy this watch at $4,395 with the deformity (and that's the correct term for at least one of the 4 endlink openings where the springbar is). I am currently out the wire fees of $25 plus tax, the shipping and return shipping has been covered.

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

Send it back. What's with all the soul searching? You paid top dollar for a pristine watch that turned out to be far from mint, near mint, or LNIB. The dealer offered to take it back. What more would you like?

The $25 wire fee. I would like to thank the seller for refunding shipping and return shipping, but that's not completely good enough. I want exactly the amount that went out of my bank account. Nobody here defended "normal wear" or "like new" - completely outrageous terms. These terms do not apply to the watch, at least not the end links.

As far as the overall condition, let's say that because of the lack of stretch, etc. and that the watch is otherwise pristine, it deserves an overall "like new" condition. Does anyone agree that this is possible? Even if it is, shouldn't the end links be disclosed??

I think that the ad was a material misrepresentation because it didn't disclose the end link damage. I think it was an accident. I need to be made whole.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by bradiowausa

The $25 wire fee. I would like to thank the seller for refunding shipping and return shipping, but that's not completely good enough. I want exactly the amount that went out of my bank account. Nobody here defended "normal wear" or "like new" - completely outrageous terms. These terms do not apply to the watch, at least not the end links.

As far as the overall condition, let's say that because of the lack of stretch, etc. and that the watch is otherwise pristine, it deserves an overall "like new" condition. Does anyone agree that this is possible? Even if it is, shouldn't the end links be disclosed??

I think that the ad was a material misrepresentation because it didn't disclose the end link damage. I think it was an accident. I need to be made whole.

Wait, your going on at this point for $25?

It sounds like all was made right, seller paid for return shipping and all.

Personally I think your now taking it too far. It was a bad situation for all and he took it back for a full return.

For the price a burger and a beer, let it go.

[southtexas]

Who is the dealer? Although they offered to make you (almost) whole, I'd like to avoid them. Who needs the hassle?

[77T]

Originally Posted by bradiowausa

The $25 wire fee. I would like to thank the seller for refunding shipping and return shipping, but that's not completely good enough.

Wasn't the choice of a bank wire yours? Or did the dealer not accept checks, money orders or credit cards?

[Archduke]

You have had a good result. I think you need to accept the $25 wire fee and move on now. It could have been a lot worse.

[bradiowausa]

I understand why the $25 plus tax seems like not it's not a lot. The amount of the purchase was greater than my credit limit for my card, and they offered a discount for not using a credit card. But yes, I could have paid with a cashier's check and mailed it to them, to my knowledge, personal checks weren't accepted.

I already accepted their deal (which doesn't include the wire fee being refunded unless after their investigation, TempoKing's comment turns out to be correct) and I sent back the watch, I'm not holding out on $25. I accepted their deal and asked them to consider covering the wire fee. I shipped the watch out yesterday under the deal.

I acknowledge that because I accepted their deal regarding shipping and that other payment options were available, that I don't have the right to the $25 plus tax. It's just something that they can do to create more good will. I just wanted some feedback regarding this issue and I got it. Thanks!

[laphroaig007]

So much hassle..... You should move forward... IMHO....

[superdog]

Originally Posted by bradiowausa

I understand why the $25 plus tax seems like not it's not a lot. The amount of the purchase was greater than my credit limit for my card, and they offered a discount for not using a credit card. But yes, I could have paid with a cashier's check and mailed it to them, to my knowledge, personal checks weren't accepted.

I already accepted their deal (which doesn't include the wire fee being refunded unless after their investigation, TempoKing's comment turns out to be correct) and I sent back the watch, I'm not holding out on $25. I accepted their deal and asked them to consider covering the wire fee. I shipped the watch out yesterday under the deal.

I acknowledge that because I accepted their deal regarding shipping and that other payment options were available, that I don't have the right to the $25 plus tax. It's just something that they can do to create more good will. I just wanted some feedback regarding this issue and I got it. Thanks!

I feel you pain. I really do.

But you said yourself, you didn't think they were trying to hoodwink you. This situation sucks for them too. In some ways, it is probably even worse.

They did the right thing. It's time to show some goodwill yourself, appreciate that they did the right thing, and move on.

[Racerdj]

Start your search again! Don't let this one get you down.

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by Racerdj

Start your search again! Don't let this one get you down.

My search now starts and ends with an Authorized Dealer. I put in a request for a 36 mm Explorer I or a 40 mm Explorer II. I'm thinking about expanding to a 40 mm GMT Master non-ceramic. Stainless Steel mid 2000's sports models, but not a Sub Date, which I already have. No ceramic.

This is helping me get over this bad experience

[jhcam8]

Originally Posted by kilyung

I'd return it even if I was out some cash. Lesson learned and hopefully you'll recoup your losses on your next watch.

Right. You're risking some money every time you buy something that's delivered. Many retailers charge a return fee. It's good to establish relationships with a few of the trusted sellers here who are expert and won't give you a hard time, even if you pay a bit more than bargain prices.
Good luck!

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by superdog

Wait, your going on at this point for $25?

It sounds like all was made right, seller paid for return shipping and all.

Personally I think your now taking it too far. It was a bad situation for all and he took it back for a full return.

For the price a burger and a beer, let it go.

I don't know about New Jersey, but in Iowa $25 pays for more than a burger and a beer. You could get dinner for two people for $25...

[sir_wolf]

Don't focus on the $25... you saved $$$ not getting an attorney involved.
At the end it is a positive outcome of a high risk vintage watch purchase.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by bradiowausa

I don't know about New Jersey, but in Iowa $25 pays for more than a burger and a beer. You could get dinner for two people for $25...

Super, then the 4+k you spent on a watch makes it appear even less.

Be happy the seller had integrity and did the right thing.
I'll say again, move on.

[adsusanto]

BRO.....FOR GOD SAKE MOVE ON........Come on man, just look at the positive side....DO you think $25 worth your time and energy to fight for???? (SURELY you are not that cheap of a guy??) Look I know sometime you may feel upset and taken advantage, but just take it like you paying for a movie show...at least you have seen and feel the ROLEX...

[Old Expat Beast]

Let it go. Time is money.

[inspires]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

I don't see big problem either: Return watch and get full refund as seller stated. Again you are buying a 10 year old watch not a new watch. Best of luck and am sure you will work it out.

Ditto. No sure what you're expecting from the seller apart from this. Get your money back and move on to the next. Explorer's similar era to the one you have can easily be found at what you paid.

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by superdog

I feel you pain. I really do.

But you said yourself, you didn't think they were trying to hoodwink you. This situation sucks for them too. In some ways, it is probably even worse.

They did the right thing. It's time to show some goodwill yourself, appreciate that they did the right thing, and move on.

I ended up making a fair deal with the seller, and the money is back in my account just today. Being that the money is back in my account - I kind of see it from their view now, so I definitely agree with this post. In their defense - it took me like a week to find the end link damage because I just wasn't looking for it.

Anyways, I just wanted to thank TRF for all of the advice received in this thread, some of which was hard to hear at first. I was actually dead set at keeping this watch, I had it at the AD ready to be shipped to Dallas RSC, and I stopped it at the last minute before it was shipped after I learned that there just wasn't any money in sending it in. I guess I would still be waiting for an estimate from Dallas RSC if I hadn't received the expert advice here at TRF.

Again, thanks so much!

[cht]

Sounds like you need to buy a new watch from an AD...

The endlinks weren't THAT bad for an almost 12 year old watch, we're talking less than half a mm of damage.

Most would not care about that on a 12 year old watch...they did the right thing and refunded you your money.

Then you whined about $25?

I feel bad for the next dealer going to sell you a used watch.

[ec51]

Send it back. Not worth the headache.

[CrownMe]

please make this thread go away......25 bux smdh

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by bradiowausa

I ended up making a fair deal with the seller, and the money is back in my account just today.

Case closed.

[bottom of the ninth]

Glad it worked out!

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by cht

Sounds like you need to buy a new watch from an AD...

The endlinks weren't THAT bad for an almost 12 year old watch, we're talking less than half a mm of damage.

Most would not care about that on a 12 year old watch...they did the right thing and refunded you your money.

Then you whined about $25?

I feel bad for the next dealer going to sell you a used watch.

If you look at the thread, I was asking for feedback regarding whether the watch was in like new condition or whether it was fixable. I honestly didn't know, if everyone had said that the watch is as stated and that there wasn't a problem, then I wouldn't have taken it back and I wouldn't have complained to the seller. That's not what happened. I respect your opinion, but it was in the minority. I wish you could have been more respectful in expressing it.

I didn't whine about the wire fee, I accepted the seller's deal without the wire fee but I did respectfully ask for it back. It wasn't worth mentioning on this thread, sorry. In addition to the end links there was a clearly aftermarket spring bar not disclosed in the listing and the wrong papers were sent.

For the comments saying if you're not happy with it send it back, what's the problem - I was trying to get feedback regarding whether the watch was fairly represented and I could pass it off as like new when I sell the watch some day. I'm not an expert on what is like new, mint, near mint, etc. what I thought of the watch isn't helpful when I try to sell it 15 years from now, the markets view of the condition is. That's what I was trying to find out through this thread.

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by bottom of the ninth

Glad it worked out!

Thanks! Looking for another stainless sports model from an ad. Mid 2000s ideally

[jw0n]

I don't think it is a matter of money to the OP. $25 might not be a lot in the US, but in this side of the world, it is 10 days worth of lunch money. In any case, I believe it is a matter of principle.

If I bought an item that was not described properly and/or was damaged when it arrived in my hands, I would expect a full refund - shipping, and all miscellaneous fees. After all, why should I be accountable for the seller's mistake?

But, like everyone else, if the seller refuses to return the $25 wire fees, then I guess it is a relatively cheap lesson learnt. Just my 2 cents. HAGWE!

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by kilyung

Case closed.

+1 the seller did refund everything in the end including the wire fees, but their initial deal didn't include this. If they didn't, it probably wouldn't have been a big deal once I saw all that money back.

case closed, I put a list out at my ad for my next purchase, hopefully ill hear back

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by jw0n

I don't think it is a matter of money to the OP. $25 might not be a lot in the US, but in this side of the world, it is 10 days worth of lunch money. In any case, I believe it is a matter of principle.

HAGWE!

Interested to hear what kind of lunch you get for $2.50/day?