Rolex 6202 - is the dial refinished? luke rottman

[crowncollection]

I am still lost as to why Robert would pay for you ? Is he a relative or something


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[MonBK]

I think it would be interesting to hear from RM if in fact he really issued the appraisal!

[themaninblack]

Come on guys. I think forum members have had some legitimate and good questions to ask of the dealer but the young man has answered them pretty thoroughly and remained polite too. People may subjectively agree or disagree with some things, so be it.

It was a private transaction issue that was resolved and the intimate details of someones private transactions and private business and finance arrangements are really just that.

[springer]

Originally Posted by themaninblack

Come on guys. I think forum members have had some legitimate and good questions to ask of the dealer but the young man has answered them pretty thoroughly and remained polite too. People may subjectively agree or disagree with some things, so be it.

It was a private transaction issue that was resolved and the intimate details of someones private transactions and private business and finance arrangements are really just that.

Maninblack, you are 100% correct. So, since TRFers are left to wonder about this transaction, one can obviously assume that Maron had a hand in this sale somewhere, sometime, since he issued the refund. It is clearly obvious from the posts here.

[greekbum]

how many sellers refund after such a longtime? Come on a public forum and give an explanation? I don't know Luke but he's acting like a 1st class dealer to me. It's how you handle a situation that makes a difference. I bought a watch movement s few weeks ago and the seller has 100 excuses as to what's wrong with it and even referred me to who he bought it from to get it resolved . Lots of clowns out there. I give Luke a big thumbs up here

[Haywood_Milton]

Have reasonable questions raised been fully and consistently answered?

If one sets out to be a watch dealer, adviser, blogger or writer, what scrutiny might one expect?

Is there a public interest element to such a thread?

Do some people have strong feelings about certain dealers? Would they reasonably want any relationships with such dealers clarifying? Would they be convinced by such responses as are found in this thread?

Those satisfied with what they have read can ignore the thread thereafter, but in a public forum may others not continue to enquire? No-one has to respond, of course, but one will be judged by what one does or doesn't say.

H

[dstacy]

Originally Posted by greekbum

how many sellers refund after such a longtime? Come on a public forum and give an explanation? I don't know Luke but he's acting like a 1st class dealer to me. It's how you handle a situation that makes a difference. I bought a watch movement s few weeks ago and the seller has 100 excuses as to what's wrong with it and even referred me to who he bought it from to get it resolved . Lots of clowns out there. I give Luke a big thumbs up here

As I said earlier in this thread "+1 !!". I'm with you on this one Nick. This reeks of good morals and good business.

This looks to me like what we have here is a working relationship between a young man and an established business.

• Does the young man likely get a commission if he sells a watch for the established dealer? Probably; so what?
• Has the young man ever bought a watch from the established dealer and sold it himself? Likely. That's accepted in every other business that sells a tangible item or asset.
• Did the young man get his established dealer friend to write an appraisal for him? Sure he did. Aren't your vendors people who you have a good working relationship with and who you often do business with?
• Does this show a very high level of professionalism that the young man arranged a refund of the sale many months after it happened? You bet it does! (go try that with a car dealer, home builder, furniture store, etc)
• Is it possible the young man was short on funds when a refund was requested and the established dealer has such a high trust of him that the established dealer covered his refund? Possible; and speaks highly of the young man's credit worthiness.

These above assumptions on my part are just that; but this forum often crucifies people/dealers/members for things that just haven't been proven to be anything other than legitimate business behavior.

[lukerottman]

No, not relative. A good friend who did me a favor when I was unable to send the wire on time to clear this problem up.

[lukerottman]

And, around that time, I'll be honest. I was short by a grand. I had just returned from a watch buying trip in Asia with loads of watches and little cash.

[lukerottman]

I don't appreciate your comment. Who else could've and would've issued that appraisal? Me? Never. I'm a legitimate watch dealer. I don't issue anything representing myself as someone else. It is from Bob's office.

[lukerottman]

Can someone hear me out and remove the thread? By leaving this open you are not doing any good. Please. I have asked on multiple occasions. And I have been totally transparent.

[TimeToGo]

I can guarantee you the thread will not be removed. At the most, locked.
I think this is about to run out of gas soon but will be available from a search.

Don't sweat it, it is time to move on... Hang in there and good luck to you!

[goldfixer21]

It's disappointing that a thread like this gets started to begin with. It's almost always a "he said" " he said" story. It appears the OP was offered a full refund before he decided to post this thread. Now it's out there to be seen every time the seller's name get's searched.

[jguerrad]

Luke:

You are a standup guy on the way you've managed the situation with your buyer and being able to resolve it, you've had enormous patience on the way you've responded to the many critics on this thread, I congratulate you on the way you've managed what has clearly been a very difficult thread for you, not only did you have the humility to explain but you have been much more transparent than many other people would ever dare to be on their private dealings.

Don't sweat this thread, if it remains open, which I believe it will, I think ironically it speaks good about the way you've managed a difficult situation.

Everyone can make his own decision, and I am not here to judge anyone for their responses, I only know two things, I would buy a watch from Luke in a heartbeat but never in a million years would I deal or sell (although I am not a dealer) with the OP the anonymous "jmeta", the instigator of this witch hunt.

Good luck to you Luke.

P.S.
- I hope all 16 year olds where out there making a living like you seem to be doing.
- No need to explain to the many gossipers on why you fly 1st class, good for you! I wish I could afford that when I was 16.

[mcaparso]

Agree Luke. I am embarrassed to admit I too read this thread and felt as though I was reading someone's personal diary. A stand up seller to an op that will likely never post again. Do the guy a favor and remove the thread if he doesn't want it out there - although any reasonable person would agree this experience should only improve his reputation.


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[Dr.Smellody]

Luke- I believe you have been both transparent and upstanding. For what it is worth, this thread directed me to your website and I started following you on Instagram. Of interst, there are several familiar names from this forum following you onInstagram.

I would not hesitate purchasing a watch from you, because of your responses and how you handled this situation.

[Matdaytona]

Guys surely the crux of this is weather the dial is refinished or not Luke you have said you feel it's not and I'm sure you have good experience but to get complete closure perhaps send the watch for expert examination to jacek,eric ku etc then once you have a second opinion proceed from there as a responsible seller i would expect you to take a watch back 6 months or years after sale if it was proved that your description was incorrect surely this watch cannot be put back up for sale until this cloud over it is resolved apologies if this was mentioned before long thread

[RolexAuthority]

Originally Posted by Matdaytona

Guys surely the crux of this is weather the dial is refinished or not Luke you have said you feel it's not and I'm sure you have good experience but to get complete closure perhaps send the watch for expert examination to jacek,eric ku etc then once you have a second opinion proceed from there as a responsible seller i would expect you to take a watch back 6 months or years after sale if it was proved that your description was incorrect surely this watch cannot be put back up for sale until this cloud over it is resolved apologies if this was mentioned before long thread

Hear hear well said why don't you Luke/Robert as you both clearly are linked send it to Rolex RSC for a full service appraisal and they will confirm if dial is actually correct or not and post the assessment in here and clear the cloud over that watch which is the crux of the issue here really if Rolex refuse it then it's a dud and OP was indeed correct. The Maron appraisal who is the kids friend is hardly concrete proof as they hardly likely to not back each other up so I wouldn't use that as definitive proof only Rolex RSC can provide a true assessment until I see such paperwork this watch is forever tainted. The mystery hasn't ended its only just begun. Start passing round the popcorn.

[lukerottman]

RolexAuthority,

I will not exhaust any more of my time or money on this matter. The show is over. I sent my buyer the refund, I have the watch. We're done. No passing the popcorn around or however you phrase it. I will do whatever I wish to do with this watch. I could have the dial authenticated (by Rolex, who knows little about their own vintage watches!) and resell, I could put it on my wrist to keep, I could even give it away for free at the Miami Beach Antique Show tmmrw morning! What I do with it is absolutely none of your business. I do not wish to write any longer. Thank you to all of those who participated in this thread. Hopefully the moderator will come to his senses and remove this thread. Just too tired of it.

[Matdaytona]

Hmm if your willing to even consider selling this you don't get my vote sunshine (point taken about rsc) I'm sure some of the big guns would inspect for free or is that too much for you!!!!

[QueueCumber]

Good grief.

[OneEyedHito]

Well this passed the time on a Thursday evening. The Internet is both the greatest thing and the worst thing we have in our lives today. It is an enigma like we've never ever scene.


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[RolexAuthority]

Originally Posted by lukerottman

RolexAuthority,

I will not exhaust any more of my time or money on this matter. The show is over. I sent my buyer the refund, I have the watch. We're done. No passing the popcorn around or however you phrase it. I will do whatever I wish to do with this watch. I could have the dial authenticated (by Rolex, who knows little about their own vintage watches!) and resell, I could put it on my wrist to keep, I could even give it away for free at the Miami Beach Antique Show tmmrw morning! What I do with it is absolutely none of your business. I do not wish to write any longer. Thank you to all of those who participated in this thread. Hopefully the moderator will come to his senses and remove this thread. Just too tired of it.

Listen Luke

You have a lot to learn your childish attempts to remove this thread keep going on and on its like you don't want anyone to know you have a dubious watch and want to wipe it under the carpet. This watch is tainted to everyone who knows about it and the OP/buyer was right to seek redress, obviously you and Maron are in cahoots trying to authenticate it between yourselves it certainly looks relumed to me and to many other people as well as other red flags that have been raised.
Don't try to be rude either I certainly don't take advice from a 16yr old with attitude and being petulant isn't going to win any of us over here. We want facts pure and simple and all your saying is remove thread my watch I do whatever I like with it why would you sell it onto someone who could read this thread and then have same issues as the OP that's not right is it, it needs verification before you palm it off again I don't want another unsuspecting buyer to have same issues. If you do as you say then sorry not good business. Well you can't prove its all original dial that's fact so there we are the crux of the story where it began need I say more. I'd never buy of you that's for sure.
Any popcorn anyone (passes bucket of popcorn round)

[Matdaytona]

Originally Posted by RolexAuthority

Listen Luke

You have a lot to learn your childish attempts to remove this thread keep going on and on its like you don't want anyone to know you have a dubious watch and want to wipe it under the carpet. This watch is tainted to everyone who knows about it and the OP/buyer was right to seek redress, obviously you and Maron are in cahoots trying to authenticate it between yourselves it certainly looks relumed to me and to many other people as well as other red flags that have been raised.
Don't try to be rude either I certainly don't take advice from a 16yr old with attitude and being petulant isn't going to win any of us over here. We want facts pure and simple and all your saying is remove thread my watch I do whatever I like with it why would you sell it onto someone who could read this thread and then have same issues as the OP that's not right is it, it needs verification before you palm it off again I don't want another unsuspecting buyer to have same issues. If you do as you say then sorry not good business. Well you can't prove its all original dial that's fact so there we are the crux of the story where it began need I say more. I'd never buy of you that's for sure.
Any popcorn anyone (passes bucket of popcorn round)

+1 this shouldnt be left proof positive is needed on this piece

[Haywood_Milton]

Some may feel that there are also other, reasonable questions conspicuously outstanding, beyond those of the watch itself.

Anyone tired of any thread may choose not to click on it further, of course.

HM

[dstacy]

Seller gives a refund on a watch sold months prior and you're beating up the seller and implying he is dishonest?
Amazing.

[HERITAGE82]

Luke:

You have handled the situation very well and good on you for make your passion for watches your career at such a young age. In regards to the watch I agree that you should do whatever you see fit with the 6202 and I am sure after this debacle you don't want anymore headaches with it.

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by lukerottman

No, not relative. A good friend who did me a favor when I was unable to send the wire on time to clear this problem up.

If your watch was sold and commanded a price based on a bogus or overly-optimistic appraisal of "all original" when in fact it's not, then you weren't done any favors by Maron/Spayne if they did the appraising. On the contrary, you were left twisting in the wind. Coming through for you on the refund was the least that could be done.

The question remains; is the dial original or refinished?

If re-finished and the watch is not "all original", more questions are raised. Some discrepancies are attributable to human error re the appraisal (nobody's perfect), and then there can sometimes be errors made as far as who can be trusted.

There's plenty of experts out there, and in a business where reputation is everything don't hitch your wagon to people facilitating shortcuts when yours is on the line. If an honest mistake was made, admit it. That goes for anything, not just watches.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by lukerottman

And, around that time, I'll be honest. I was short by a grand. I had just returned from a watch buying trip in Asia with loads of watches and little cash.

Would that be this trip, (posted with a different account)?

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=406754

[albmich]

lol. Sadly, I am glued to this thread more closely than anything else in my life right now