116610LV Really good fake or real?

[mapalfa]

I found a few things that were approaching frightening last night!

I was nosing around on aliexpress and found fakes of both the new Air King and the Daytona C. The AK was lousy, and even a blind man's guide dog could tell it was dodgy at 50 paces, but the D500 was quite a lot better. Not great, but better.

What I found most disturbing was that someone can pick up a rep D500 before Rolex have even got all their initial orders out

[powerreserve]

I think the movement is not original. The screws, the engravings and the used materials seem different. Modified ETA? Or maybe even Asian mod.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by powerreserve

I think the movement is not original. The screws, the engravings and the used materials seem different. Modified ETA? Or maybe even Asian mod.

I do not think so.
Please circle, compared to genuine the differences. Thanks

[Solicitor]

Originally Posted by gladiator

i do not think so.
Please circle, compared to genuine the differences. Thanks

+1

[powerreserve]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

I do not think so.
Please circle, compared to genuine the differences. Thanks

Take a close look yourself and compare this pic from an original Hulk to the pics posted on page 1

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[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by powerreserve

Take a close look yourself and compare this pic from an original Hulk to the pics posted on page 1

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I did, a few times.
I still consider for a number of reasons the photo in post 92 as genuine.

PS: I own a number of Rolex "ultra super fake" (my terminology) movements - they have a long way to go to meet a Rolex genuine in my opinion


Adam

[MattCH]

So, what is the verdict?! To me it can be fake. Clasp. Bezel, well done but not as the original one. And engravings not as HQ.

[chrstphrb]

Guys,

It's DEFINITELY a Frankenwatch with a mix of gen/clone parts - this I can tell you without a doubt...

I came to this conclusion based on experience with both HIGH-END reps (to practice working on (tuning, cleaning, moding, etc...), authenticating professionally, and my own & customers gen watches. I submit the following for consideration:

A.) The base movement is real; however, it was stripped/swapped out for gen parts to beef up a counterfeiters Yuki or SA3135 franken build. Basically, the perp/con artist was after gen parts that are poorly made in the clone, and gen parts that have branding/writing on them. The polish and the precision of the writing/engraving is almost exact as per the Asian clone movements (poorly done with improper tools/precision).

FWIW Previous poster hit it on the head, NO ASIAN CLONE, OR ANY CLONE for that matter has a free sprung balance wheel/micro-stella adj. wheel/screws.

B.) The bracelet is DEFINITLY a above average bracelet from a clone, an older Noob Factory if I'm seeing things for what they are via the photos. The screws and finish of the bracelet are mirror that of a decent rep (especially the finish if the inside clasp (way too rough).

C.) The Case, Crown, and Bezel/Bezel Insert are also from a decent clone (Most likely Noob Factory - look it up, specifically "Noob v7"). Dial is clearly fake, just looking at the font/type - you can clearly see inconsistent paint depth/width, VERY common on even the best reps.

d.) A Hulk-C should NEVER have as much wear and tear inside, and otherwise. This watch has clearly been disassembled by a novice watch modder (I'm not going to say "smith" and insult those who are legit).


I work on my own watches, and bought one of these $500 "clones" six years ago to gain experience working on/practicing cleaning the movement, replacing the dial, installing/removing hands, etc... without damaging my gen watch(s). I'm retired and wanted a new hobby, and was sick of paying six-fifty and waiting six weeks for my watch(s) to be serviced (in Arizona, nowhere local to send).

FYI, There are also near indistinguishable Tudor, Panerai, and Omega watches. BE CAREFUL. The movements will almost always give it away. This guy was smart and knew that the one sure-fire way to tell a cloned rolex from the real is the free-sprung balance wheel/parachrome hairspring.

Hope this helps.

[usrudiver932]

Hour hand at end looks damaged, the green on the 40 and 50 seem to be bleeding into the platinum

[cht]

Originally Posted by chrstphrb

Guys,

It's DEFINITELY a Frankenwatch with a mix of gen/clone parts - this I can tell you without a doubt...

I came to this conclusion based on experience with both HIGH-END reps (to practice working on (tuning, cleaning, moding, etc...), authenticating professionally, and my own & customers gen watches. I submit the following for consideration:

A.) The base movement is real; however, it was stripped/swapped out for gen parts to beef up a counterfeiters Yuki or SA3135 franken build. Basically, the perp/con artist was after gen parts that are poorly made in the clone, and gen parts that have branding/writing on them. The polish and the precision of the writing/engraving is almost exact as per the Asian clone movements (poorly done with improper tools/precision).

FWIW Previous poster hit it on the head, NO ASIAN CLONE, OR ANY CLONE for that matter has a free sprung balance wheel/micro-stella adj. wheel/screws.

B.) The bracelet is DEFINITLY a above average bracelet from a clone, an older Noob Factory if I'm seeing things for what they are via the photos. The screws and finish of the bracelet are mirror that of a decent rep (especially the finish if the inside clasp (way too rough).

C.) The Case, Crown, and Bezel/Bezel Insert are also from a decent clone (Most likely Noob Factory - look it up, specifically "Noob v7"). Dial is clearly fake, just looking at the font/type - you can clearly see inconsistent paint depth/width, VERY common on even the best reps.

d.) A Hulk-C should NEVER have as much wear and tear inside, and otherwise. This watch has clearly been disassembled by a novice watch modder (I'm not going to say "smith" and insult those who are legit).


I work on my own watches, and bought one of these $500 "clones" six years ago to gain experience working on/practicing cleaning the movement, replacing the dial, installing/removing hands, etc... without damaging my gen watch(s). I'm retired and wanted a new hobby, and was sick of paying six-fifty and waiting six weeks for my watch(s) to be serviced (in Arizona, nowhere local to send).

FYI, There are also near indistinguishable Tudor, Panerai, and Omega watches. BE CAREFUL. The movements will almost always give it away. This guy was smart and knew that the one sure-fire way to tell a cloned rolex from the real is the free-sprung balance wheel/parachrome hairspring.

Hope this helps.

I concur with all your points, good job and nice first post!

[cstone28]

Please excuse my naive question but why are we still debating real vs fake for this watch. The OP took it to a RSC and they looked at it and quoted a repair. If the OP had had the work done they would have ended up with a 2 year Rolex warranty. Doesn't that pretty much shut the book on the discussion, or is it being suggested that even with RSC looking at it it could still be fake? If thats the case doesn't it open a whole can of worms about getting things verified at an RSC?

[Dutch85]

Originally Posted by Sublover2166

I took this pic off a site called Solid Swiss.

There is no such thing as Swiss replica, it's all chinese.
Sites who claim they sell Swiss replica are scam sites.

[Luap1976]

Chrstphrb you are so wrong in every single point you mentioned watch is 1000 percent genuine ok.
Stop talking about fake watches it's not allowed

[Mnicolini300]

I don't think anyone here will understand a fake 3135 does not have a free sprung balance... it's the fastest tell not to mention lighting with a hulk will change its personality gen fold.. if this was a LN everyone would be all over it being genuine..

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Dutch85

There is no such thing as Swiss replica, it's all chinese.
Sites who claim they sell Swiss replica are scam sites.

Sorry this is not correct.
I have touched, and have close up photographs of a Swiss "ultra fake" Rolex's!

They are out there!
Adam

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Mnicolini300

I don't think anyone here will understand a fake 3135 does not have a free sprung balance....

I have photos of a 3135 with a "free sprung balance"

I have touched the watch and taken in detail photos.

The SWISS movement was as close to a Rolex as one could get, only 2 issues could give it away - but it was "free sprung".
The case actually was the more tell-tale-proof.



Adam

[Mnicolini300]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

I have photos of a 3135 with a "free sprung balance"



I have touched the watch and taken in detail photos.



The SWISS movement was as close to a Rolex as one could get, only 2 issues could give it away - but it was "free sprung".

The case actually was the more tell-tale-proof.







Adam

And you're sure that the movement wasn't an older late 80s 3135 in a fake case?


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[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Mnicolini300

And you're sure that the movement wasn't an older late 80s 3135 in a fake case?


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100%.
Watch was FAKE! It used a SWISS ULTRA FAKE movement.
NOT ONE PIECE was original Rolex.

The Pawn shop paid $8000 for it! I examined it with my High Definition Microscope and now can point out a couple of minor issues - but it was free sprung!

Adam

[Sublover2166]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

100%.
Watch was FAKE! It used a SWISS ULTRA FAKE movement.
NOT ONE PIECE was original Rolex.

The Pawn shop paid $8000 for it! I examined it with my High Definition Microscope and now can point out a couple of minor issues - but it was free sprung!

Adam

What is your consensus with the Hulk watch in this thread? It looks crude in certain pics, especially the ceramic insert. Could the pics just be bad? Yes. But I still have doubts about that watch. BTW, I own a Hulk.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Sublover2166

What is your consensus with the Hulk watch in this thread? It looks crude in certain pics, especially the ceramic insert. Could the pics just be bad? Yes. But I still have doubts about that watch. BTW, I own a Hulk.

As I said here:
http://www.rolexforums.com/showpost....8&postcount=31

In my opinion (experience) the movement in the OPs first post is genuine, it is not a SWISS "Ultra Fake"

A

[Mnicolini300]

Hmm something seems fishy about your statement regarding a pawn shop paying 8k for a hulk when the retail is within 2k of that. I know several pawn shop owners and not one of them in their right mind would pay anywhere NEAR retail for anything.. they prey on money hungry folks and offer pennies on the dollar. It just doesn't ad up.. I'm gonna say that movement is real


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[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Mnicolini300

Hmm something seems fishy about your statement regarding a pawn shop paying 8k for a hulk when the retail is within 2k of that. I know several pawn shop owners and not one of them in their right mind would pay anywhere NEAR retail for anything.. they prey on money hungry folks and offer pennies on the dollar. It just doesn't ad up.. I'm gonna say that movement is real


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I never said it was. Hulk.
I was only referring to the movement.
There is nothing "fishy". I have no reason to lie, nor do I.

And I have photos.

I also stated a few times that the posted movement is genuine, based on observations of that fake
Adam

[Jreddy]

Legit!!


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[Jreddy]

But the insert does look suspect


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[wisky]

Look at the 7th Hour round marker, it shows a defect. I don't think anyone else mentioned this.

[Jreddy]

Originally Posted by wisky

Look at the 7th Hour round marker, it shows a defect. I don't think anyone else mentioned this.

Wow ur right


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[Max Payne]

Wow... this thread... I am speechless.

[Royalex]

No blue parachome, i guess it is fake.

[imperio]

Originally Posted by wisky

Look at the 7th Hour round marker, it shows a defect. I don't think anyone else mentioned this.

Originally Posted by Sublover2166

I own a Hulk. The fit and finish on this one raises some red flags with me. The white gold surround on the 7 o'clock plot looks like it is damaged. Ask for a pic of serial number on rehaut and matching warranty card. Place more burden of proof on seller that this is real. I have some concerns, and if it were me I would pass on this one, but that's just me.

Guess you didn't make it past post #7? Lol.

Anyway OP how much did RSC charge you to get a service estimate?

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Royalex

No blue parachome, i guess it is fake.

OP watch and movement are genuine.
Both the photo and authenticated by Rolex.
A