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3 December 2018, 11:49 PM | #91 | |
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Out of state. Sadly I let it go , I would not pay $2000/3000 premium on a pre-owned modern watch . Whether it be another BLNR or a Hulk which I’m not a fan of at all... I only buy what’s available at least at MSRP or less. That’s me , I can only speak for myself. If I pay a premium, then I may as well save that money and add to get a pm ... eventually my grail. |
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4 December 2018, 01:20 AM | #92 |
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The case for paying more in my opinion is as follows:
Retail + Sales tax price = X Secondary Market premium price = X+premium Secondary market price w/o sales tax (online forum sale / cash transaction) = ~X Obviously, much of this formula depends on your state sales tax and the piece. But there are plenty of models which fetch a premium of around 8-10%, matching the sales tax in a few states. |
4 December 2018, 08:59 AM | #93 | |
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4 December 2018, 09:50 AM | #94 | |
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In the last 20 years, Rolex has sold 20 Million watches. Add to that those sold on the second-hand market in the same timespan, you're probably looking at 30 Million watches making it into new homes. I stand by my estimate of perhaps 3,000 BLRO's being produced each year. Let's say only 1% of all people who purchased a Rolex in the last 20 years would be interested in a Ceramic Pepsi. DJ owners excited about a sport model, Sub owners looking for a bit of color, 5 Digit owners looking to upgrade, pick your poison. That's 300,000 potential buyers for 3,000 BLRO's produced this year. Don't like 1%? Make it half a percent, make it even smaller, the numbers still support the same reality. That's not "mass produced". In the context of how large the Rolex potential consumer group is, that's extremely limited. You aren't going to win the numbers game when it comes to the Rolex audience and the tiny amount of Daytona's and Pepsi's they manufacture each year. |
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4 December 2018, 10:25 AM | #95 | |
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Evidence is the vast numbers of available BLRO world wide at greys, as an example. They can be readily found in a heartbeat, at a premium of course. Some greys have dozens to offer. The reality is they have been removed from the standard non grey market by unscrupulous ADs selling to greys to help them move their other stock.
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Rolex 228235 DD40 Olive, 126710BLRO, 116710BLNR, 116613LB, 116500LN White, 126610LN, 116500LN Black, 126610LV, 116610LV, 126334 Blue Diamond Breitling Navitimer 01, Cartier Santos Large |
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4 December 2018, 10:26 AM | #96 | |
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Evidence is the vast numbers of available BLRO world wide at greys, as an example. They can be readily found in a heartbeat, at a premium of course. Some greys have dozens to offer. The reality is they have been removed from the standard non grey market by unscrupulous ADs selling to greys to help them move their other stock. If you want to view that as scarce, then I guess it is, but not by my logic.
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Rolex 228235 DD40 Olive, 126710BLRO, 116710BLNR, 116613LB, 116500LN White, 126610LN, 116500LN Black, 126610LV, 116610LV, 126334 Blue Diamond Breitling Navitimer 01, Cartier Santos Large |
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4 December 2018, 10:46 AM | #97 | |
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Rolex makes X amount of BLRO's and they are all sold, with massive 5+ year waiting lists, and people willing to spend a 100% premium to get one. At any given moment only a dozen are for sale at the grey's or in the forums and they disappear within hours. That's not the description of a 'mass produced' product. McDonald's french fries which are available to any one of a billion people on every street corner who want them are a mass produced product. |
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4 December 2018, 10:52 AM | #98 | |
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You are playing with semantics that they are sold. They are sold to a middle man, the greys, and then inflated to the consumer. They are still available, brand new, and plenty in supply for sale currently. That by no means is scarcity. It’s just a new game being played with an in demand product. No modern Rolex can be qualified as limited production by the true definition. They are all mass produced.
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Rolex 228235 DD40 Olive, 126710BLRO, 116710BLNR, 116613LB, 116500LN White, 126610LN, 116500LN Black, 126610LV, 116610LV, 126334 Blue Diamond Breitling Navitimer 01, Cartier Santos Large |
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4 December 2018, 11:16 AM | #99 | |
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4 December 2018, 11:47 AM | #100 | |
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As for numbers, I said I was making it up, but I believe it probably paints a realistic picture. Feel free to take a stab at some numbers yourself. Start with 1M watches made in a year, take away about 50% of them for non-Sport, Ladies, and PM models, and divide the remaining Sport models by the 10 references and the 100+ configurations of metals, bezels, dials, and bracelets they are offered in and take a stab at how many units Rolex produces each year of a specific GMT with a specific bezel and bracelet combination. (Hint: It's going to be about 3,000) |
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4 December 2018, 12:00 PM | #101 | |
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4 December 2018, 12:27 PM | #102 |
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I think what most people are saying is that Rolex, like many other manufacturers, is making a mass produced product in the sense that the watches they make are not a limited run and then they stop, or even a numbered run. They could make BLRO's for 10 more years if demand was there. That is why there is all the bubble hype. These are modern mass produced fashion jewelry with a great marketing team. Keep in mind, the fanatics on this board represent a fraction of the Rolex buyers out there, and the bulk of the buyers are like sheep that will flock to the next "look at me" item in vogue in 12 months. What is disappointing is that Rolex is letting this hype ruin the buying experience for folks that want to have the true AD experience and turning off folks that may want to buy their first Rolex. This will punish the brand in the future.
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4 December 2018, 12:41 PM | #103 |
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So, whether or not something is mass produced isn’t determined by the manufacturing process, but rather how many potential buyers there are for the product in relation to how many copies of the product are manufactured?
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4 December 2018, 01:12 PM | #104 | |
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If it is the other way around and people are actually talking about Rolex as a "mass manufacturer" that's certainly correct, no argument. But the value of one of their watches isn't determined by how much time or effort it takes to make one; the value of a Rolex is in its unmistakable quality, innovation, style, and scarcity. I think in the context of this thread, the argument being made is that people shouldn't spend $18K on a BLRO because a) it's stainless steel and that's PM money, b) someone can get an AP or other brand instead, and c) Rolex makes 1 Million watches a year and grow on trees. Well, a) some people don't like PM watches, b) some people find AP and other brands boring, and c) despite making mass quantities of their expansive lines, when you drill down to one bezel/bracelet combination of one specific reference like the BLRO they only make a couple of thousand a year. |
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4 December 2018, 03:43 PM | #105 | |
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Agreed with you. $10k above MSRP for a Daytona is insensible. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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4 December 2018, 03:59 PM | #106 | |
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4 December 2018, 04:03 PM | #107 | |
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Call the BLRO whatever you like but there aren't enough to go around. "Mass produced" is as useless a phrase as "MSRP". Both mean nothing when there simply aren't any out there. The Pepsi GMT doesn't need to be hand-crafted out of precious metal by cave-dwelling Swiss artisans to be superior to every other watch on the planet; it just has to be drop-dead gorgeous. And it is. |
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4 December 2018, 04:03 PM | #108 |
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I'm OK paying above MSRP if it's below the going Gray rate. I bought my Daytona 116500C for over MSRP and still made money trading it in to the AD on my new watch.
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4 December 2018, 04:06 PM | #109 | |
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And your point about long term is quite important- I'm never selling the BLRO so I am not affected by what its cost is today or its value may be decades down the road. If I'm fortunate enough to go another 40 years it'll be my companion for the journey and you can't put a price on that. |
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4 December 2018, 04:26 PM | #110 | |
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4 December 2018, 04:46 PM | #111 |
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4 December 2018, 05:00 PM | #112 |
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4 December 2018, 05:01 PM | #113 | |
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You cannot use terms like mass produced and common to describe Rolex watches - if you do what language is left to describe Apple watches or McDonald's fries? It's relative terminology and the terminology you are using to describing Rolex watches is silly. |
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4 December 2018, 05:19 PM | #114 | ||
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It should be evident by now that "mass production" is a type of production (as opposed to job/unit, batch, or flow); it has absolutely nothing to do with availability. |
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4 December 2018, 05:21 PM | #115 |
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The case for buying above MSRP
What about discontinued watches ? Why do we pay market value for them? Whatever the market value is. Because there isn’t another way. So if I want a discontinued model it’s ok to pay market value but if I want to buy a current model that most likely would be as good as discontinued for me it’s not the same? Being a current model ( at least some current models) doesn’t mean they will ever be more accessible from an AD ( to some people at least ) than the discontinued ones. What’s wrong about getting what you want, when you want it and with no mass or fuss ?
Nobody is twisting anyone’s arm to pay above MSRP but if you can afford it and you want that watch, then I believe that it makes no sense to play games and waste your time. If you don’t see the value then you simply don’t pay and move on. There is plenty of other models or manufacturers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
4 December 2018, 06:15 PM | #116 | |
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4 December 2018, 06:35 PM | #117 | |
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4 December 2018, 06:45 PM | #118 | |
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*Manufacturing Chemist |
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4 December 2018, 07:18 PM | #119 | |
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Maybe I'm just precious about effective use of English but to say Rolex SS BLROs are "mass produced", Apple Watches are "mass produced in greater quantities", Casio watches are "mass produced in even greater quantities", Volkswagens are "mass produced in still greater quantities" and McDonalds fries are "mass produced in quantities even greater than that" is a clumsy and misleading use of the term "mass produced". I also think it is disingenuous. I live in an affluent area, I fly business class everywhere and I visit well-to-do restaurants blah blah. I haven't seen one Rolex SS BLRO in the wild yet. Describing them as "common" is inaccurate and I stand by that. Describing them as "common" is obtuse and it renders the word "common" impotent. On my way to work this morning I saw several Porsches and two Ferraris (maybe they are mass produced too - you'd probably say so, I wouldn't). Maybe you'd say Picassos are mass produced (in relative terms you'd have a better argument than with Rolex SS BLROs) but I wouldn't. I would describe Rolex SS BLROs as "uncommon". That's not obtuse - just literate. * normal bloke |
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4 December 2018, 07:22 PM | #120 | |
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