Grey Prices dropping definitely

[omx5o]

Watchfinder have a sale every year I think. It's nothing special.

[RoverLR4]

Fresh off of Bloomberg... does appear the HK market is softening, but there is an uptick in shipments to mainland:

(BN) Hong Kong Loses Swiss Watch Crown as Mainland China Gains
2019-11-19 11:27:25.93 GMT


By Thomas Mulier
(Bloomberg) -- Swiss watch exports to mainland China
surpassed those to Hong Kong for the first time in October as
anti-Beijing protests in the city dissipated demand for luxury
goods. Shipments to Hong Kong plunged 30%. It was the first time
the city ranked behind mainland China as a landing spot for the
products since the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry began
keeping monthly records about 30 years ago.

To contact the reporter on this story:
Thomas Mulier in Geneva

[Oaker1]

Originally Posted by stash21

great sale I can now buy a £9k Daytona for only £23k instead of £25k

where do I sign up,.

Exactly! I very much doubt that WF were moving them at the “previous” prices.

[Billfish]

The batman are listing from 15,600 to as high as 21k on their site- i really wanted one so did not mind paying what i did and love the watch Card dated 2-2019 with oyster bracelet

[garyfromleeds]

Originally Posted by LooseCann0n

Am interested in this as I am looking to buy a Batman in the new year. May even be earlier as am going to Hong Kong over Xmas so if I can grab a bargain...

However will more than likely be that I wait till I get back and assess the cost of the holiday (also other Asian destinations over Xmas / Early Jan).

Current preliminary research up to the last few weeks showing small decrease from c£12.5 to c£12k.
Therefore the WF prices (which tend to be on the high side) of £12.5k is only a marginal decrease.
Hopefully better bargaining may be had once you go into the store with cash.. but on balance I think I’ll leave it till after Xmas when people are historically poor and not looking to make big discretionary purchases and see how I get on then.

Uk bullion in sheffield has a batman for sale today for 11k , pre owned but pristine condition , forget paying 12/12.5k and they will negotiate on price a little , hope this helps , p.s they close on Wednesdays

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TimeToWatch]

Wait, so one website has a "sale" and the bottom of the market's fallen off? Lmao

Classic

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Mystro

I think you are overestimating how "low in production" the daytona really is. Its a mass produced factory watch like all the others. Everything like fashion is cyclical. No one wanted a SS Daytona in the early 90's. My dealer had two that sat for months at a good discount to move them. In historical lineage, the Daytona was never a popular Rolex catalog model when you could buy any model at will. The height of its popularity is now. It will be interesting looking back in another 40 years how the Rolex catalog plays out in market popularity. The supply and demand craze has skewed the organic popularity of the last 50 years but the DJ will probably be the#1 most sold model of all times.

You are right about those early Zeniths not being too demanded. Though I do think the late 90’s and later Daytona demand is more structural at this point, but we shall see. I think it’s too early to see any trends in the GMT Masters that are greater than cyclical but just my opinion

[jkap2323]

It seems like the prices are still above the secondary marketplace. They have a SS Daytona panda dial listed for 30K(their sale price) USD. Only decent sale items seem to be day-dates and other non professional models.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Yellowfury]

Just saw an explorer 2 for 8.8k. Not too far off from the 8.1k msrp

[tmmii]

Glad I only invested in mine for my own enjoyment. This thing never leaves my wrist.

[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by exador

Hong Kong Greys still holding out despite the chaos. No fire sales yet.

That's because their prices are still lower than WF.

WF's prices are 10-20% higher than the market. They have the room to make a "sale". HKG greys move with the market...If there's a fire-sale next day it's normally among themselves that they offload. End-customers (like 99% on TRF) won't see or feel it until a bit later.

[Fire bloke]

Goldsmiths - the biggest Rolex AD in the UK has also just put a sale on its pre-owned watches many Rolex reduced

I have noticed in the last 2months there second hand Rolex inventory has been rising due to less sales..they even have a stainless Daytona which is not sold.. 6 months ago it would have sold in a day

The market is changing

[SS Oyster]

Originally Posted by georgekart

You gotta remember US prices don't include taxes. In USA sticker price of 15k is 15k+tax. In Europe if you see 15k on sticker it's 15k.

Except grey dealers normally don’t charge tax.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Soultime]

UK started the whole shortage thing with Brexit vote in 2016 when £STG dropped.

Overseas buyers could get discounted watches in the UK. Instant profits could be had..... The Internet picked up on it..... And the whole bubble was created.....it then spread throughout the world.

Maybe we are the first to see the other side due to recent strengthening of the £ coupled with the HK issues reducing demand.

[uncleluck]

Surely it’s a great thing for those of us that just like watches, not jewellery or stainless steel investments?

Bring back rrp and discounts!

[Harry-57]

This appears to be a marketing gimmick. WF habitually overprice even the most expensive of grey Rolex models. Their reduction doesn't make any of the reduced models any less than still ridiculously overpriced. And it is not a store wide Rolex sale, just a shave from some models to get cash flow moving.

Less than two years back I got an AD discount on a Polar which undercut what WF wanted for a second hand, less than mint example. WF have always been willing to negotiate on price but I've never managed to get them to less than what I could buy the same model for from other grey dealers.

If this marks any kind of beginning of a grey price easing slope then all the better. I don't consider WF to be a bellwether. But I won't be sorry if I'm wrong about that. Things need to at least point in the direction of sanity. That will be a start.

[VegasMilgauss]

Sell, Sell, Sell..

[J.P.Jones]

Originally Posted by 3sheets86

Thin Red Line, good example. The Scots aren't known for throwing their money about, almost as tight as Yorkshiremen!

Also note the Grey on the right, with the horse shot underneath him.

[jaySL350]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

This appears to be a marketing gimmick. WF habitually overprice even the most expensive of grey Rolex models. Their reduction doesn't make any of the reduced models any less than still ridiculously overpriced. And it is not a store wide Rolex sale, just a shave from some models to get cash flow moving.

Less than two years back I got an AD discount on a Polar which undercut what WF wanted for a second hand, less than mint example. WF have always been willing to negotiate on price but I've never managed to get them to less than what I could buy the same model for from other grey dealers.

If this marks any kind of beginning of a grey price easing slope then all the better. I don't consider WF to be a bellwether. But I won't be sorry if I'm wrong about that. Things need to at least point in the direction of sanity. That will be a start.

Think is Harry,,,WF are opening branches all over,,,,recently in Hong Kong,,pop ups in New York iirc,
They do seem to set the Gray prices in the U.K. and Richemont look like extending to other markets, ,
I think they can smell a change in the air,,,,can’t remember when they reduced a ,,6 digit TT sub before albeit yellow and SS so greatly before but I stand corrected if they have,,,

[Danny83]

Even with the sale they are very overpriced

[jsausley]

Richemont owns Watchfinder UK now so it's probably just corporate moves to encourage higher quarterly revenue for shareholders.

That being said moves like this that put the short term ahead of the long term might actually force downward pressure on Rolex preowned prices. Richemont is going to want to see their newly acquired Watchfinder sales going up with each quarter, they don't want to see Watchfinder sitting on $XXX million of inventory as an investment.

[Yellowfury]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

Except grey dealers normally don’t charge tax.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

you will find this changing due to the wayfair SCOTUS decision.

[AznD85]

S/S Sport models still dropping? Hope it relates to ADs getting them back to the show case to sell to customers that aren't on the exclusive "wait-list."

[Podmornica]

The Rolex is raising the prices in 2 weeks by 10% for all professional models per this thread:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=714121

So, who knows!? Maybe the flippers got this info already and are now lowering the prices knowing the availability will improve ..

[Tavli3]

Couple of comments.
C24 which is the biggest Gray dealer in the world basically has prices holding steady at slightly reduced levels from several months ago.
Number of BLROs just crossed the 300 mark for first time this year. BLNR are now over 400 and 116500 Daytonas are a whopping 658 pieces with some white dials at 21K and change. Nothing to break the champagne out for but a trend seems to be forming.
Inventory is climbing steadily with leaky prices.

WF event/sale not really significant yet until they lower prices under the average market price.
Let me know when WF, GS and WOS all start to lower pricing below C24 average prices.
Then it could get exciting if C24 sellers follows suit.

We all know there is a massive inventory bubble out there, just a matter of when it pops.
That's also why I've been saying Rolex needs to cut production and by no means increase it. They no longer control the market. The greys are in charge of where pricing and availability go. And by availability I mean if they lower prices close to MSRP it in reality is increasing availability in a big way since a whole lot of people will be willing and able to immediately buy the watch they been waiting for and not getting.

[jensonslee]

Availability won’t increase because of higher prices. As long as flippers have a margin, they will take what they can get.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[djgallo]

Originally Posted by Tavli3

Couple of comments.
C24 which is the biggest Gray dealer in the world basically has prices holding steady at slightly reduced levels from several months ago.
Number of BLROs just crossed the 300 mark for first time this year. BLNR are now over 400 and 116500 Daytonas are a whopping 658 pieces with some white dials at 21K and change. Nothing to break the champagne out for but a trend seems to be forming.
Inventory is climbing steadily with leaky prices.

WF event/sale not really significant yet until they lower prices under the average market price.
Let me know when WF, GS and WOS all start to lower pricing below C24 average prices.
Then it could get exciting if C24 sellers follows suit.

We all know there is a massive inventory bubble out there, just a matter of when it pops.
That's also why I've been saying Rolex needs to cut production and by no means increase it. They no longer control the market. The greys are in charge of where pricing and availability go. And by availability I mean if they lower prices close to MSRP it in reality is increasing availability in a big way since a whole lot of people will be willing and able to immediately buy the watch they been waiting for and not getting.

Chrono24 is Not a gray dealer. They are a marketplace for watch sellers many of them grays but also many private sellers, so the format is very similar to EBay. Many of the same sellers that sell on C24 also sell on Ebay.

[MSchu]

Originally Posted by Podmornica

The Rolex is raising the prices in 2 weeks by 10% for all professional models per this thread:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=714121

So, who knows!? Maybe the flippers got this info already and are now lowering the prices knowing the availability will improve ..

Big deal... so another 950 on top of my 126710blro... that's still a smoking deal

[UK_]

Brand new unworn BLNR bought from WOS on 2 Dec on sale in London grey dealer for £11,950.

Price form AD - £7,150.

Total profit margin of £4850.

What margins do the grey dealers need? Must me at least 30%, so they have £3500 of that total profit, leaving £1,350 for the flipper (so much for WOS controlling who gets their hard to get watches lol).

To me, when the margins disappear for the flippers, this is when some demand will dry up, causing prices to drop more significantly. We are not there yet, but the BLNR does seem to be getting the closest.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dlong]

Originally Posted by UK_

Brand new unworn BLNR bought from WOS on 2 Dec on sale in London grey dealer for £11,950.

Price form AD - £7,150.

Total profit margin of £4850.

What margins do the grey dealers need? Must me at least 30%, so they have £3500 of that total profit, leaving £1,350 for the flipper (so much for WOS controlling who gets their hard to get watches lol).

To me, when the margins disappear for the flippers, this is when some demand will dry up, causing prices to drop more significantly. We are not there yet, but the BLNR does seem to be getting the closest.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s called a straw purchase. Everyone gets a piece. As long as there are fools willing to pay the price, the dance continues.