Why are all the watch sites pushing F.P Journe?

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Pongster

Nice post.

For my own edification, what is wrong with the centrigraphe? Thats the second FPJ am targetting.

From my experience there is nothing wrong with them. Mine works flawlessly.

Perhaps he meant the idea to make a 1/100th chrono?

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by tom2517

I don’t think the traditional big houses are doing the highest finishing possible. Maybe the top end models but not most of the models, at least not compare to small indies.

You are certainly right on that account, they are certainly no Karis or Rexheps (though, for that matter, neither is FPJ, not by a long shot). But from what I‘ve seen especially at Lange and VC, the respect for the importance of traditional workmanship and finishing is a pretty high priority of the people who make these things. I would argue more than the function in certain instances. I don’t believe we’ll get into much of an argument on whether a tourbillon serves as a timing improvement or a display of how sharply you can finish the interior angles of its cage. And other than perhaps instances where improving the sound of a repeater is at stake, I‘d argue that’s the case for most of the traditional complications. Even on a chiming watch, you’ll hardly contest that the black polished hammers are much of the appeal.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by Swaye

From my experience there is nothing wrong with them. Mine works flawlessly.

Perhaps he meant the idea to make a 1/100th chrono?

I didn’t mean they don’t work as designed, which I have no doubt they do. But while the whole point of the thing is overcoming frequency, it works with a hand that still doesn’t move continuously, and if that hand makes a minor stop 6 times a second, you can unclutch it all you want inbetween, it won’t be exactly on the 100th of a second it should be on, unless that is at exactly equal distance between two beats. So as I said, while the idea is better than many others, the concept is inherently imperfect.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

I didn’t mean they don’t work as designed, which I have no doubt they do. But while the whole point of the thing is overcoming frequency, it works with a hand that still doesn’t move continuously, and if that hand makes a minor stop 6 times a second, you can unclutch it all you want inbetween, it won’t be exactly on the 100th of a second it should be on, unless that is at exactly equal distance between two beats. So as I said, while the idea is better than many others, the concept is inherently imperfect.

I can see that perspective certainly, but I do appreciate FPJ for what he is trying to achieve. Might be difficult to get there, but I applaud anyone who sees a technical challenge and presents their best effort at solving it. It is one of the reasons I so dearly love FPJ. Execution may not always be flawless, but a 1/100th chrono, an instantaneous perpetual, and a resonance movement are laudable goals that I believe he pulled off in rather exceptional fashion. I like the pushing of boundaries, and I believe FPJ does that.

[Celter]

Originally Posted by christianj

We've all seen Journe prices go up in recent years due to tight supply and demand....especially on the Chronometre Blue. But I just noticed that the asking prices are now close to $50k online for the CB which is just plain ridiculous!

Do you think it’s more ridiculous than paying the same price and more for a simple steel Patek 5711?

[Mr. Miami]

Originally Posted by rockdrock

So jealous! Pls go talk to Rocky. Dude is amazing. Never been to the store and never shaken his hand (yet) but he has helped me a lot on this journey.


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Have you bought from them before or just contacted them? I’m thinking of going the preowned route to be honest but the Miami boutique is the one closest to me and I think that’s where you go when you need to have watch serviced.

[Mr. Miami]

Originally Posted by celter

do you think it’s more ridiculous than paying the same price and more for a simple steel patek 5711?

+1

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by Swaye

I can see that perspective certainly, but I do appreciate FPJ for what he is trying to achieve. Might be difficult to get there, but I applaud anyone who sees a technical challenge and presents their best effort at solving it. It is one of the reasons I so dearly love FPJ. Execution may not always be flawless, but a 1/100th chrono, an instantaneous perpetual, and a resonance movement are laudable goals that I believe he pulled off in rather exceptional fashion. I like the pushing of boundaries, and I believe FPJ does that.

I fully concur with that. The intention of my initial post was never to diminish any of what FPJ do, just to evidence the clear difference between the path they are on and the path the traditional houses hold onto, whether by tradition or for the lack of better ideas. No judgment one way or the other.

My specific interest in watchmaking is the art of finishing and the crispness a human hand can achieve. That’s a very personal preference that led me to purchase certain pieces rather than others. That doesn’t mean others are not more impressive from different perspectives.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Mr. Miami

+1

Should also note that 50K asks have already moved back to mid-40's and I have it on good authority a large dealer sold one just last week for 42K. 2015 full set. So asks are just that, asks. I think the market is saying low 40's on these right now.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

I fully concur with that. The intention of my initial post was never to diminish any of what FPJ do, just to evidence the clear difference between the path they are on and the path the traditional houses hold onto, whether by tradition or for the lack of better ideas. No judgment one way or the other.

My specific interest in watchmaking is the art of finishing and the crispness a human hand can achieve. That’s a very personal preference that led me to purchase certain pieces rather than others. That doesn’t mean others are not more impressive from different perspectives.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by ialienam

By the way, I have noticed that on Watchbox website, they offer 2 years warranty to Journe watches. However I also do remember from a video they made, they said FPJ don't like third party touches their watches or would charge double when return to service.
In this case, if something goes wrong with the Journe's watch I buy within 2 years, return it, who service it? Anyone with real knowledge?

I have had personal experience here.
As I understand it, Govberg are capable of servicing journe watches but not all models.
ie the resonance goes back to journe.

Originally Posted by JR16

When I bought my last pre owned Journe from Watchbox I was told the warranty work was done by FPJ.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Originally Posted by jnelson3097

All warranty work is sent back to FPJ and the costs are covered by Watchbox.

[Pongster]

Originally Posted by Swaye

I can see that perspective certainly, but I do appreciate FPJ for what he is trying to achieve. Might be difficult to get there, but I applaud anyone who sees a technical challenge and presents their best effort at solving it. It is one of the reasons I so dearly love FPJ. Execution may not always be flawless, but a 1/100th chrono, an instantaneous perpetual, and a resonance movement are laudable goals that I believe he pulled off in rather exceptional fashion. I like the pushing of boundaries, and I believe FPJ does that.

Great. I have a foudroyante (1/8) and a striking tenth (1/10). I suppose the centrigraphe is a logical progression.

If am lucky and land a salmon dial, that would also scratch that itch.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Pongster

Great. I have a foudroyante (1/8) and a striking tenth (1/10). I suppose the centrigraphe is a logical progression.

If am lucky and land a salmon dial, that would also scratch that itch.

I was very fortunate to get my Centigraphe in salmon. Only 16 in salmon/rose gold the AD told me. Rarest configuration. Not sure if/how many platinum salmons. Good luck!

[Pongster]

Originally Posted by Swaye

I was very fortunate to get my Centigraphe in salmon. Only 16 in salmon/rose gold the AD told me. Rarest configuration. Not sure if/how many platinum salmons. Good luck!

Hmmmm. Lucky you.

There’s a Pt available for sale now in TRF. But i contacted the FPJ boutique where i got my first journe to see if he can help.

Anyway, no rush. The journey and/or the hunt should be fun.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by sgfortino

What an amazing piece! Enjoy the hell out of it!!

Thank you

It is a very wearable watch and when it comes up in the rotation, it stays on the wrist for days. the resonance effect gives the watch a kind of spirit or personality that I look forward to experiencing.

Originally Posted by shafran

because Danny Govberg and his associates loved Journe. They had taken positions in other brands that never panned out. Danny and George both wear Journe over other brands. I think its more of being in the right place at the right time. People want them and they were cheaper than comparable lange or patek, now they are not.

Agree. Many comments want to put them on one side or the other but the truth is somewhere in the middle.


They were fortunate enough to be one of few ADs for the brand and as a consequence have been educated and have maintained their finger on the pulse of the brand like few others. They are Nimble and able to respond to auction sales and internet hype if up or down.

We have seen many hot watches from other brands made in the thousands or 10s of thousands using typical and plentiful movements sell for more than 2x their msrp. IMHO Journe watches are in a different league, small production, original and inspired movements, truly unique complications and solutions.

IMHO, FP journe is a living watch legend and whatever the market does, those that are part of this discussion are present for a significant moment in the history of watchmaking.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by subtona

IMHO Journe watches are in a different league, small production, original and inspired movements, truly unique complications and solutions.

IMHO, FP Journe is a living watch legend and whatever the market does, those that are part of this discussion are present for a significant moment in the history of watchmaking.

^^^^^^ This.

Plus, frankly, many of us longtime collectors with decades of experience realize the value of FPJ over other brands... plus FPJ offers a better warranty and faster service times too.

Another benefit, true timepiece connoisseurs know FPJ is the real deal over... you know who.

ALS is another very good brand imho, yet FPJ ranks higher in my book.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

I think FPJ has a rather singular position in that FP is still alive and very much steering the fortunes of the brand. As a result of this, the brand consists of the vision of one person and is hard to really classify in terms of watchmaking. What he thinks is important (innovative chronometry) they do very well, what he feels is just a chore (proper finishing) not so much.

At the core, all of the traditional big houses of high watchmaking essentially celebrate the „art de faire“ by finding more or less original ways to build watches that comply with the standards of flawless workmanship and finishing to the highest extent possible. And while that’s great to maintain the art and craft, the products are undeniably repetitive and do not translate into the pursuit of a particular engineering objective. In the end, it’s always the same calendars/chronographs/tourbillons/chiming watches/worldtimers, or any combination thereof. Other than the Zeitwerk, this approach has yielded very little true innovation, but as a customer, you know you’re buying the time of a person polishing angles with a handheld touret or, in the best cases, a bois de gentiane somewhere in the vicinity of the Lac de Joux or south of Dresden. In other words, you buy a piece of a century old labour of love that‘s somehow unbelievably valuable, wonderful and deserving of being maintained, despite it’s ultimate pointlessness.

FPJ on the other hand is entirely different in that respect. Rather than celebrating the steady hand of the person applying a flawless finish (which I would argue is acceptable but not FPJ‘s core strength), the brand is about realizing the more or less genius ideas of one of the very few truly great watchmakers of our time. Yes, not everything is perfect, like the inherently flawed concept of the centigraphe or the debatable merits of the resonance, but unlike the others, FPJ pursued clear objectives, tried to advance what we understand a watch‘s abilities to be and actually executed his concepts, whether or not in a quality that may rival the very best.

In the meantime, Patek made „inspired“ (using this very ironically here) things like a watch with handwriting on the dial, a nice but not world changing pusher system for dual time watches with awkward holes in the dial and a pilot’s watch with an alarm that might as well be a JLC, if not for the consistently outstanding quality of their execution. Lange made countless variations of the one good idea they had with the Zeitwerk, on an equally impressive level of quality and Vacheron did nothing original at all (with the possible exception of its last GPHG watch), but did that amazingly well.

On this basis, I would call the comparison apples to oranges and suggest that we just respect FPJ for who he is, without indulging in the pump and dump hype some outlets may or may not be fuelling, and without attempting to position his product among those of a range of other brands that are built according to an entirely different rulebook.

So thankful for this articulation. I think it’s what many us believe but would fail miserably in trying to convey it this well.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Pongster

Hmmmm. Lucky you.

There’s a Pt available for sale now in TRF. But i contacted the FPJ boutique where i got my first journe to see if he can help.

Anyway, no rush. The journey and/or the hunt should be fun.

I had to wait awhile for a salmon. The wait makes it better.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by subtona

Thank you

It is a very wearable watch and when it comes up in the rotation, it stays on the wrist for days. the resonance effect gives the watch a kind of spirit or personality that I look forward to experiencing.






Agree. Many comments want to put them on one side or the other but the truth is somewhere in the middle.


They were fortunate enough to be one of few ADs for the brand and as a consequence have been educated and have maintained their finger on the pulse of the brand like few others. They are Nimble and able to respond to auction sales and internet hype if up or down.

We have seen many hot watches from other brands made in the thousands or 10s of thousands using typical and plentiful movements sell for more than 2x their msrp. IMHO Journe watches are in a different league, small production, original and inspired movements, truly unique complications and solutions.

IMHO, FP journe is a living watch legend and whatever the market does, those that are part of this discussion are present for a significant moment in the history of watchmaking.

Excellent post.

[rockdrock]

Originally Posted by Mr. Miami

Have you bought from them before or just contacted them? I’m thinking of going the preowned route to be honest but the Miami boutique is the one closest to me and I think that’s where you go when you need to have watch serviced.

MrMiami, yes, I purchased from him and hope to take delivery in Geneva sometime in summer. Did everything over phone but would love to visit the Miami boutique one day for that full experience.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[shafran]

is outstanding. It is a bar in a hotel. NY boutique more traditional, but they will still pour you a drink.
BTW Govberg also took a position in
Moser, they are now cutting those prices.

[dwight]

I haven't bought a tank of gas in almost two months and also haven't worn a watch in that time so I'll probably hold off on a watch purchase. Maybe the economy is going to bounce back quickly, but it doesn't look that way.

[epicurus]

A lot of FPJ chatter as of late....Thought this thread would be relevant to the conversation.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

Good thread with a lot of good information. I also think the CB price point is not sustainable.

Turns out you were right, the asking prices have since doubled.

[GB-man]

I was way off in my assessment here. I must admit though it was largely because I had a very pessimistic view of how the pandemic would affect the watch market. Boy was I wrong.

Furthermore I even went as far as to buy my first Journe early 2021 and here is the absolute hilarious kicker…..wait for it…from Govberg

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I was way off in my assessment here. I must admit though it was largely because I had a very pessimistic view of how the pandemic would affect the watch market. Boy was I wrong.

Furthermore I even went as far as to buy my first Journe early 2021 and here is the absolute hilarious kicker…..wait for it…from Govberg

LOL, which one did you get?

There's a dealer in Boston now with a few.

[rockdrock]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I was way off in my assessment here. I must admit though it was largely because I had a very pessimistic view of how the pandemic would affect the watch market. Boy was I wrong.

Furthermore I even went as far as to buy my first Journe early 2021 and here is the absolute hilarious kicker…..wait for it…from Govberg

Hahahaha! I do respect your sincerity. Oh pls, let us know what you purchased.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

I think FPJ has a rather singular position in that FP is still alive and very much steering the fortunes of the brand. As a result of this, the brand consists of the vision of one person and is hard to really classify in terms of watchmaking. What he thinks is important (innovative chronometry) they do very well, what he feels is just a chore (proper finishing) not so much.

At the core, all of the traditional big houses of high watchmaking essentially celebrate the „art de faire“ by finding more or less original ways to build watches that comply with the standards of flawless workmanship and finishing to the highest extent possible. And while that’s great to maintain the art and craft, the products are undeniably repetitive and do not translate into the pursuit of a particular engineering objective. In the end, it’s always the same calendars/chronographs/tourbillons/chiming watches/worldtimers, or any combination thereof. Other than the Zeitwerk, this approach has yielded very little true innovation, but as a customer, you know you’re buying the time of a person polishing angles with a handheld touret or, in the best cases, a bois de gentiane somewhere in the vicinity of the Lac de Joux or south of Dresden. In other words, you buy a piece of a century old labour of love that‘s somehow unbelievably valuable, wonderful and deserving of being maintained, despite it’s ultimate pointlessness.

FPJ on the other hand is entirely different in that respect. Rather than celebrating the steady hand of the person applying a flawless finish (which I would argue is acceptable but not FPJ‘s core strength), the brand is about realizing the more or less genius ideas of one of the very few truly great watchmakers of our time. Yes, not everything is perfect, like the inherently flawed concept of the centigraphe or the debatable merits of the resonance, but unlike the others, FPJ pursued clear objectives, tried to advance what we understand a watch‘s abilities to be and actually executed his concepts, whether or not in a quality that may rival the very best.

In the meantime, Patek made „inspired“ (using this very ironically here) things like a watch with handwriting on the dial, a nice but not world changing pusher system for dual time watches with awkward holes in the dial and a pilot’s watch with an alarm that might as well be a JLC, if not for the consistently outstanding quality of their execution. Lange made countless variations of the one good idea they had with the Zeitwerk, on an equally impressive level of quality and Vacheron did nothing original at all (with the possible exception of its last GPHG watch), but did that amazingly well.

On this basis, I would call the comparison apples to oranges and suggest that we just respect FPJ for who he is, without indulging in the pump and dump hype some outlets may or may not be fuelling, and without attempting to position his product among those of a range of other brands that are built according to an entirely different rulebook.

Best post of the thread.

[Lo100169]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Best post of the thread.

I agree 100%

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

LOL, which one did you get?



There's a dealer in Boston now with a few.

Originally Posted by rockdrock

Hahahaha! I do respect your sincerity. Oh pls, let us know what you purchased.

First off agreed NAV0L1s post was money.


I picked up a new ARS2 right before they lost Journe. It’s definitely not a traditional choice but it fits my needs.