Daytona Price Surge!

[thekman]

Love my black dial but if it actually hits 40, I don't know if it's worth keeping anymore

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by Giangos

You lost me at “not real heritage”

That would require a rethink I believe


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Ok, help me understand the heritage? Seems to be it was created as a basic chrono, well after the speedmaster (no explanation needed) and chronomat and navitimer real tool watches used for important functions for pilots.

What new ground exactly did the Daytona bring? Now, I can be objective. The Daytona is sized fantastically, tough as nails, and looks good from the fashion standpoint of it looks great with trunks or a suit and is accurate and has a stellar movement. But, it does not change the fact that it lacks the heritage of the speedy pro, navitimer, chronomat, el primero, or Monaco.


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[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

If I list my Daytona for $100,000 does that mean the price is surging?

I almost did something similar on TRF for 4/1 but didn't want to break any rules.

[CLTRolex]

Do we need to talk about this every day?


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[alphadweller]

Adam Smith's invisible hand running the show.

[Nikrnic]

Originally Posted by 10XRolex

I'll trade them towards your Corvette and Overseas.

I'll think about it.
Thinking, thinking, thinking..
Nope can't do it.

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[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by CLTRolex

Do we need to talk about this every day?


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Exactly. There was literally the EXACT same thread a month ago.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

If I list my Daytona for $100,000 does that mean the price is surging?

Of course we never know what the actual sale price is, but I do know for certain if you try bargaining with the top trusted sellers, you're lucky if you get 1000-1500 off a $40k ask.

Also, sell your watch to them!

They're going to offer, give or take 10% off their asking price. That's a rough estimate, but point being they're paying out numbers that are consistent with their asking prices.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by CLTRolex

Do we need to talk about this every day?


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best way to bring a thread or topic to a close is to not comment in it

[JSolution]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

Of course we never know what the actual sale price is, but I do know for certain if you try bargaining with the top trusted sellers, you're lucky if you get 1000-1500 off a $40k ask.

Also, sell your watch to them!

They're going to offer, give or take 10% off their asking price. That's a rough estimate, but point being they're paying out numbers that are consistent with their asking prices.

spot on. i buy everything grey and this is my experience.

[JerBear]

Originally Posted by Chester01

People are willing to pay big money to feel special. Paying just about 40k for a historically insignificant watch that has subdials that cannot be accurately read is absurd. I mean let that sink in folks, the purpose of a watch is to tell the time and main function of a chrono to be read accurately, and the Daytona cannot manage that basic task. Like a sports car, that cannot run.

Just curious...if you truly believe this, why did you buy 2 of them?

[drfrankenstein]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

Of course we never know what the actual sale price is, but I do know for certain if you try bargaining with the top trusted sellers, you're lucky if you get 1000-1500 off a $40k ask.

Also, sell your watch to them!

They're going to offer, give or take 10% off their asking price. That's a rough estimate, but point being they're paying out numbers that are consistent with their asking prices.

Originally Posted by JSolution

spot on. i buy everything grey and this is my experience.

so you are saying they are striving for 10% margins?

[DoctorsOrders]

Originally Posted by Starhutch

Demand and supply in action, it’s a killer watch

I think you mean flippers hoarding in action...

[ScottishRolex]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

Of course we never know what the actual sale price is, but I do know for certain if you try bargaining with the top trusted sellers, you're lucky if you get 1000-1500 off a $40k ask.

Also, sell your watch to them!

They're going to offer, give or take 10% off their asking price. That's a rough estimate, but point being they're paying out numbers that are consistent with their asking prices.

I found this surprising too when trying to negotiate on pieces from trusted dealers in TRF.

What I came to realize though, is in many instances they are not picking up every piece they sell at retail and many are paying some secondary market price between retail and CMV. It's not likely that every Daytona DSW has posted he paid retail for and is making $25K profit per watch.

This limits margins and discounting ability in an understandable way. Though I have never purchased via a gray as such lol.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by JerBear

Just curious...if you truly believe this, why did you buy 2 of them?

So I try to understand this as well. I recall wanting the Daytona since the mid 90’s not really even knowing much about the watch at the time, or the brand. But the model I recall seeing was the SS Zenith so think that’s the model I really fell in love with. I got the zenith two tone in 1999 I believe but wanted the SS version but they were rare even then. Fast forward Then called my AD, and they had a SS model in 2014 (was offered the ceramic black dial version in 2016 and declined).

I use my watches to time things at my job, and remember the day clearly, I was timing something looked down and it was in between 19 and 21/22 and I could not for the life of me tell with precision and had to do it over. I just laughed at myself thinking I had a 13k watch that could not do it’s job. That’s never happened with my speedy or navi. And it’s just lead me to see the watch as more jewelry than watch given I use my watches for function. And I asked myself what did I pay for. So that’s my story. I’m not a hater, but my Daytona story is one where the watch let me down and failed in the task it was designed for.


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[seosub]

Originally Posted by JacksonRain

Careful there

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Asking why would probably be a more appropriate response.

I've noticed - as many others seem to have - that everyone in the world who sold a watch for a profit is a flipper, but one negative comment about DavidSW is unacceptable. For those that have had great experience with him, great - let your friends know. But there's no doubt that he's taking advantage of the market and certainly benefiting from the halo he has been gifted on TRF. I got to the point where I questioned if all of the folks commenting on how great DavidSW even bought from him.

I am not against people selling something they've legally bought - I am also not against people making a business out of it. They are simply taking advantage of a market opportunity - and it seems that DavidSW is good at doing just that and providing a good buying experience on top. But let people speak their minds if they have had a different experience - the forum isnt built to protect DavidSW at all costs.

[JerBear]

Originally Posted by Chester01

So I try to understand this as well. I recall wanting the Daytona since the mid 90’s not really even knowing much about the watch at the time, or the brand. But the model I recall seeing was the SS Zenith so think that’s the model I really fell in love with. I got the zenith two tone in 1999 I believe but wanted the SS version but they were rare even then. Fast forward Then called my AD, and they had a SS model in 2014 (was offered the ceramic black dial version in 2016 and declined).

I use my watches to time things at my job, and remember the day clearly, I was timing something looked down and it was in between 19 and 21/22 and I could not for the life of me tell with precision and had to do it over. I just laughed at myself thinking I had a 13k watch that could not do it’s job. That’s never happened with my speedy or navi. And it’s just lead me to see the watch as more jewelry than watch given I use my watches for function. And I asked myself what did I pay for. So that’s my story. I’m not a hater, but my Daytona story is one where the watch let me down and failed in the task it was designed for.


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Fair enough. Appreciate your insight

[Maxy]

Originally Posted by seosub

Asking why would probably be a more appropriate response.

I've noticed - as many others seem to have - that everyone in the world who sold a watch for a profit is a flipper, but one negative comment about DavidSW is unacceptable. For those that have had great experience with him, great - let your friends know. But there's no doubt that he's taking advantage of the market and certainly benefiting from the halo he has been gifted on TRF. I got to the point where I questioned if all of the folks commenting on how great DavidSW even bought from him.

I am not against people selling something they've legally bought - I am also not against people making a business out of it. They are simply taking advantage of a market opportunity - and it seems that DavidSW is good at doing just that and providing a good buying experience on top. But let people speak their minds if they have had a different experience - the forum isnt built to protect DavidSW at all costs.

I think you don't get it or don't want to get it. If you had brand new Daytona, he was offering 22K last Jan. If you offer him that now, he'll give 34k easily. He's not buying watches at msrp and selling them at 38K. The buying prices also increased dramatically.

[strettyend]

Maybe I’m crazy but I like the steel bezel ones so much more

[SaddleSC]

I just created a listing on Craigslist offering up my Explorer 214270 for $52,595...it looks like prices are now "surging" on the Explorer as well!

[Maxy]

Originally Posted by SaddleSC

I just created a listing on Craigslist offering up my Explorer 214270 for $52,595...it looks like prices are now "surging" on the Explorer as well!

Good for you. So, in your mind everything is fake and Daytona's resale value is around its MSRP and there's not much demand? Okay!

[seosub]

Originally Posted by Maxy

I think you don't get it or don't want to get it. If you had brand new Daytona, he was offering 22K last Jan. If you offer him that now, he'll give 34k easily. He's not buying watches at msrp and selling them at 38K. The buying prices also increased dramatically.

..so is every other grey - very few of their watches come from AD, most come at thin margin.

YouTube "the timepiece gentleman" - gives you a bit of perspective

[SaddleSC]

Originally Posted by Maxy

Good for you. So, in your mind everything is fake and Daytona's resale value is around its MSRP and there's not much demand? Okay!

The resale value is not fake, but "trusted sellers" are now market makers and I am making it clear that there is a difference between a LIST price and the final price that is agreed upon, which nobody in this thread other than David and the actual buyer are privy to.

Has the market value increased dramatically over the past year? Obviously yes. But every time David creates a listing and tacks on another $5K, that doesn't mean the watch is selling at that new price. Sales data needs to be looked at over time and we would need actually competed for sale numbers, not a bunch of list prices.

[Tampashooter]

Anyone thinking Davids prices are "speculative", doesn't know David. Best in the Biz. I don't remember any pandering 10 years ago when Subs were selling on his site at or below retail.

[Maxy]

Originally Posted by SaddleSC

The resale value is not fake, but "trusted sellers" are now market makers and I am making it clear that there is a difference between a LIST price and the final price that is agreed upon, which nobody in this thread other than David and the actual buyer are privy to.

Again you got no proof but there is enough proof like that user paid 38K for his Daytona and posted on the thread and we have years of proof that DSW doesn't reduce his asking price for prime watches. No wonder it hangs around for few days before sale. If he's in bargaining type, he'll probably take the 1st offer on 1st day.

[Maxy]

Originally Posted by Tampashooter

Anyone thinking Davids prices are "speculative", doesn't know David.

Yes, I can't vouch for other sellers but I know DSW prices are fixed especially for his prime and rare models.

[SaddleSC]

Originally Posted by Maxy

Yes, I can't vouch for other sellers but I know DSW prices are fixed especially for his prime and rare models.

Your arguments are based on generalized narratives that simply are not verifiable or true across the board. Every transaction is different.

How do you "know" that his prices are fixed? You have reviewed all of his transactions over time?

I have done over 20 deals with David over the past 8 years. He has been willing to negotiate both the asking price as well as the trade value nearly every deal from a WG 116619LB Submariner to a new 116610LV Hulk, etc.

There is variability...excellent customers who do hundreds of thousands of dollars in business with David are going to get better deals than me. I will get better deals than a person emailing him out of the clear blue with no spend history.

If you think that any seller gives every single buyer, regardless of relationship the same deal, you are being naive.

[logo]

Originally Posted by Chester01

So I try to understand this as well. I recall wanting the Daytona since the mid 90’s not really even knowing much about the watch at the time, or the brand. But the model I recall seeing was the SS Zenith so think that’s the model I really fell in love with. I got the zenith two tone in 1999 I believe but wanted the SS version but they were rare even then. Fast forward Then called my AD, and they had a SS model in 2014 (was offered the ceramic black dial version in 2016 and declined).

I use my watches to time things at my job, and remember the day clearly, I was timing something looked down and it was in between 19 and 21/22 and I could not for the life of me tell with precision and had to do it over. I just laughed at myself thinking I had a 13k watch that could not do it’s job. That’s never happened with my speedy or navi. And it’s just lead me to see the watch as more jewelry than watch given I use my watches for function. And I asked myself what did I pay for. So that’s my story. I’m not a hater, but my Daytona story is one where the watch let me down and failed in the task it was designed for.


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It’s an interesting thing, where I’m sure many of us grew up with a particular “idea” of what a Rolex or luxury watch should be and it’s hard to shake that nostalgia no matter how impractical it may be. It sure does bring joy to put those pieces on the wrist and get that same sense of “wow” we had when looking at these things many years ago, even if they don’t actually tell time lol. That’s the fun of our hobby though.

[Maxy]

Originally Posted by SaddleSC

Your arguments are based on generalized narratives that simply are not verifiable or true across the board. Every transaction is different.

How do you "know" that his prices are fixed? You have reviewed all of his transactions over time?

.

When none of the top sellers have any Daytona in hand and DSW has just 1, do you think he'll discount? Okay

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by drfrankenstein

so you are saying they are striving for 10% margins?

Give or take, yes. That is what i've seen in my experiences. I've had countless deals with several trusted sellers, perhaps they might profit a little more or less depending who they're working with.

And on a side note, this is another reason why I think there is much unwarranted trusted seller hate these days. The common misconception is that these sellers are buying daytonas all day long at $13k and selling them for $39k.

While I do believe they get some opportunities to buy directly from ADs for retail, my guess is the majority of their watches come from flippers looking to profit. It's absurd to call them "greedy".

A. they're not selling milk and bread during a famine. They're selling a pure luxury item.

B. They're running a business, they're not running a charity to put hard to get watches in the hands of enthusiasts.

Their profits lie within high quantities of sales with relatively low margins, and occasionally MSRP AD purchase of a hot watch. But even then, keep in mind, they might have spent 100k on less desirable watches/jewelry, breaking even or even losing money just to line themselves up for one hot watch.