F.P. Journe

[llngoc]

After all these discussions, can someone elaborate on what was in Nico’s video which gives more details on what happened? I am not even sure which videos it is being referred to and honestly, i am not a fan of Nico’s style and would rather not watch the entire video.

When I met with Mr Journe, he came out as cordial and passionate about his work.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by codecow

I was thinking KV but also MB&F and Romain Gauthier. KV and Romain both were flown out to the Bay Area, I met KV and had dinner with him. At that time something like a V8 was obtainable without too much cost or effort.

MB&F I could just order one from my retailer. The owner wore a LM all the time. They also had AP and had Royal Oaks just sitting there in the case. I think they still have Laurent Ferrier but those never seemed to hit.

Most MB&F is obtainable if you can wait. Unless it is the steel Lm101.

As for Kari, you just have to live long and prosper with the 2030 delivery date.

[codecow]

Originally Posted by llngoc

After all these discussions, can someone elaborate on what was in Nico’s video which gives more details on what happened? I am not even sure which videos it is being referred to and honestly, i am not a fan of Nico’s style and would rather not watch the entire video.

When I met with Mr Journe, he came out as cordial and passionate about his work.

It’s in his 2023 tier list update that came out today.

To paraphrase he said; he used to rank Journe highly but he can’t do it now because he heard about a recent dinner with high end collectors where FPJ either behaved poorly or admitted to behaving in a way that Nico (and the collectors) felt was completely out of line and not acceptable. He suggested those collectors were getting out of the brand as a result.

This is interesting because if you watch any of Nico’s car videos he’s breaking laws left and right. So I guess that’s not an issue, but whatever FPJ is said to have done is actually bad.

[codecow]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Most MB&F is obtainable if you can wait. Unless it is the steel Lm101.

As for Kari, you just have to live long and prosper with the 2030 delivery date.

Yeah I am not a fan of the brand, I like the simplest LM pieces that look like a watch that Kari worked on, thought about getting one back in the day (pre-hype).

[cal14]

Anyone who was at the dinner with FPJ care to elaborate? Very concerning comments from Nico in the video. It sounds like Nico wasn’t attending the dinner, but trusts someone who was.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by codecow

Yeah I am not a fan of the brand, I like the simplest LM pieces that look like a watch that Kari worked on, thought about getting one back in the day (pre-hype).

Back in the days actually was not that far back for Voutilainen. I first got interested in early 2021 and was quoted a 6-12 months wait.

By the time I decided to proceed in mid 2022, it because 2 years then 4 years and now is 2030. (Someone please correct me if my information is wrong)

[codecow]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Back in the days actually was not that far back for Voutilainen. I first got interested in early 2021 and was quoted a 6-12 months wait.

By the time I decided to proceed in mid 2022, it because 2 years then 4 years and now is 2030. (Someone please correct me if my information is wrong)

I think I met him in 2016 or 2017.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by codecow

I think I met him in 2016 or 2017.

Exactly. It seems like Voutilainen just exploded in demand just in the last 24 months. A friend of mine bought a used piece at the start of pandemic for a fraction of what it would have costed today.

[llngoc]

Found this really informative article on the Chronomètre Optium.

https://watchesbysjx.com/2023/10/fp-...technical.html

This is definitely a “if-you-know-you-know” piece. Someone at the boutique just told me an interesting story on how he sold a CO to a customer. He was refusing to give out the price of the piece until he had a chance to explain the watch to the customer. At the end, the man forgot that he has to meet his wife and got the watch.

I probably would have done the same thing

[ChetBaker]

FPJ no doubt makes beautiful and recognizable watches, but in a time where collectors seem to be expecting the highest levels of finishing, I do wonder why FPJ seems to get a free pass with stamped dials, few internal angles if any etc.

[shammad10]

Nico made it sound like FPJ had been behaving in a very ?illegal way. Quite a strong accusation to throw out.
Wonder what happened.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by shammad10

Nico made it sound like FPJ had been behaving in a very ?illegal way. Quite a strong accusation to throw out.
Wonder what happened.

Do you have the link to the video? It sounds like it is his hear-say from one person? Maybe Nico couldn’t get his FFC allocation so he was upset.

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

FPJ no doubt makes beautiful and recognizable watches, but in a time where collectors seem to be expecting the highest levels of finishing, I do wonder why FPJ seems to get a free pass with stamped dials, few internal angles if any etc.

He seems to be doing different things with movements that are unique or seem to be inventive. I can see why that's more valuable to some than a 60 degree super smooth shiny bevel, though I do get hot and bothered with some anglage. I mean when you think about the internal angle hoopla, it may be very difficult to do well, but in the end it's polishing a small crevice....

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by salnuaimi

Heard that there is an incident between some collectors and FPJ at a private dinner as per Niko Leonard which made many collectors sell their watches as its going to affect the brand

any idea on this?

Mr. Journe has good boundaries, collectors are sometimes entitled brats who believe that if they don't get what they want, somehow the world will stop spinning.

FPJ will certainly continue to be very successful. It will not affect the brand, how ridiculous.

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Do you have the link to the video? It sounds like it is his hear-say from one person? Maybe Nico couldn’t get his FFC allocation so he was upset.

Haha ye. It's Nico's latest video, about 21mins in

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by shammad10

Haha ye. It's Nico's latest video, about 21mins in

The John Mayer one?

Thanks!

[F131F]

Originally Posted by llngoc

The John Mayer one?

Right here: https://youtu.be/q9wNPi8YkZ4?si=uULTFUbaFwGw94KQ

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by dchang81

He seems to be doing different things with movements that are unique or seem to be inventive. I can see why that's more valuable to some than a 60 degree super smooth shiny bevel, though I do get hot and bothered with some anglage. I mean when you think about the internal angle hoopla, it may be very difficult to do well, but in the end it's polishing a small crevice....

To me it’s kind of weird at that price point. If you’re charging $120k for a watch, just charge the extra $20k - $40k and offer higher quality finishing, guilloche, etc.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Mr. Journe has good boundaries, collectors are sometimes entitled brats who believe that if they don't get what they want, somehow the world will stop spinning.

FPJ will certainly continue to be very successful. It will not affect the brand, how ridiculous.

Agreed. Some of these collectors are intolerable. It’s a part of watch collecting. We collect jewelry people. Self indulgent ***** are among us. That’s okay.

[codecow]

I’m a bit of a scrub. When I met KV I was able to examine many examples people had brought and of course they’re awesome. The guy who invited me handed me his Simplicity and I couldn’t appreciate it. I think I value the watch as a whole more than some interval bevels or how deep the bevels are… dunno it’s subjective right?

[codecow]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Agreed. Some of these collectors are intolerable. It’s a part of watch collecting. We collect jewelry people. Self indulgent ***** are among us. That’s okay.

I am quite self indulgent and arguably a prick but I never expect anything from a watchmaker, an AD, a jewelry maker, etc… and as such I am never disappointed.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by codecow

I’m a bit of a scrub. When I met KV I was able to examine many examples people had brought and of course they’re awesome. The guy who invited me handed me his Simplicity and I couldn’t appreciate it. I think I value the watch as a whole more than some interval bevels or how deep the bevels are… dunno it’s subjective right?

I think what makes KV really compelling is the perfect combination of unique designs and perfect execution.

There’s nothing really interesting going on with the Simplicity design wise. Just very high quality execution on the finishing front, but it’s on the back of the watch so you aren’t really going to see it.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

To me it’s kind of weird at that price point. If you’re charging $120k for a watch, just charge the extra $20k - $40k and offer higher quality finishing, guilloche, etc.

I suspect he doesn’t think it matters.

I put very little value in the number of interior angles on a movement. I would however prefer a manually done guilloche.

I wouldn’t buy a Dufour if they went for 75k honest to god. The degree to which a guy can polish a movement with wooden sticks if he has 6 months to do it means nothing to me if the rest of the watch isn’t compelling. For instance…I like the Simon Brette artisans because it’s design is interesting and it has excellent finishing but I feel Dufour watches only offer the finishing and nothing else.

I guess to sum it up finishing is subordinate to overall aesthetic and movement design to me with watches.

Companies that put finishing first but suffer with interesting movements or dial side aesthetics are abundant and remind me of hot rod cars with 100k in chrome engine parts, it’s still a 1972 Chevrolet regardless of how many shiny parts are under the hood.

[djnick]

Journe is all about mechanical chops not refinement, which is why you don't see things like hackings seconds or rose engine guilloche

[codecow]

I only own one FPJ piece, I looked at many and never pulled the trigger even when they were “cheap” and easy to get.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by codecow

I only own one FPJ piece, I looked at many and never pulled the trigger even when they were “cheap” and easy to get.

Same except I only have 3. We all make mistakes.

[codecow]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Same except I only have 3. We all make mistakes.

Hahaha 🤣

[tigerpac]

Just adding some additional details. FJP said he uses stamped disks because they're thinner. That said, the rotors are engine turned guilloche.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by tigerpac

Just adding some additional details. FJP said he uses stamped disks because they're thinner. That said, the rotors are engine turned guilloche.

To add to this point.

The Tourbillion vertical is with a hand guilloché base plate dial and a grand feu enamel dial. The price point is probably one of the reasons but Mr Journe did state that he was able to do it because the thickness of the watch allows him to do so.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by djnick

Journe is all about mechanical chops not refinement, which is why you don't see things like hackings seconds or rose engine guilloche

Hacking second is supposed to put undue stress on the balance wheel and that was the reason why it was as not used.

Hand guilloché is used on the TV

But I do agree that if you are buying a FPJ for finishing, interior angles or other refinements, you probably did not do your homework. I enjoy its dial side aesthetic and innovative movement.