A word in support of the new IWC Ingenieur

[Inseconds99]

Originally Posted by yetione

Just had a rather big week .... I've been on the list for the Aqua since release day, and just got the call that I could pay in full to reserve an allocation by April 2024. BUT - I also got a call for the VTNR GMT Master 2 last week (which I bought, of course)

I'm feeling a little heavy on green in the collection. Would anyone here actually sell a GMT Master 2 for the new Ingenieur?

Had a similar situation happen. Got the call for the Aqua under the same conditions. Went to the boutique and saw it, loved it. Then got a call for a BLNR. Ended up passing the Aqua up to the next person as of last week.

As much as I love it and think it’s stunning in person. I know I can get that watch next year for under retail. Batman at retail is way harder to get.

[scarlet knight]

Today’s Ingenieur picture


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[yetione]

Originally Posted by Inseconds99

Had a similar situation happen. Got the call for the Aqua under the same conditions. Went to the boutique and saw it, loved it. Then got a call for a BLNR. Ended up passing the Aqua up to the next person as of last week.

As much as I love it and think it’s stunning in person. I know I can get that watch next year for under retail. Batman at retail is way harder to get.

I completely agree. I also heard the Ingenieur will

A. be available at IWC retail locations, not just boutiques, starting end of 2024/beginning of 2025. The idea that this will eventually be available under retail seems extremely likely - especially given the overall recession in the general watch market. Being available at general retail locations would allow me to buy from a local vendor and gain the benefit of "purchase history".

B. be available in different colors and sizes in the future. AKA the collection isn't going anywhere, further increasing the chances that this watch will be readily available under retail in the not-so-distant future.

And - is it the right time to buy an integrated bracelet watch? I'm not so sure. Very personal, but I can't help feeling like this watch is catching the very tail end of a trend. Everyone and their mother has or is releasing an integrated bracelet watch.

I feel bad for IWC in a way. Had this watch come out two years ago, I think it would have been a smash hit and very hyped up. As it stands - 10 years from now when integrated is no longer the hot thing, we'll all still want the Royal Oak and Patek models the same way my dad never let go of that hot unobtainable car from his youth.... but how will the Ingenieur be remembered?

[dr.ns23]

Originally Posted by yetione

I completely agree. I also heard the Ingenieur will

A. be available at IWC retail locations, not just boutiques, starting end of 2024/beginning of 2025. The idea that this will eventually be available under retail seems extremely likely - especially given the overall recession in the general watch market. Being available at general retail locations would allow me to buy from a local vendor and gain the benefit of "purchase history".

B. be available in different colors and sizes in the future. AKA the collection isn't going anywhere, further increasing the chances that this watch will be readily available under retail in the not-so-distant future.

And - is it the right time to buy an integrated bracelet watch? I'm not so sure. Very personal, but I can't help feeling like this watch is catching the very tail end of a trend. Everyone and their mother has or is releasing an integrated bracelet watch.

I feel bad for IWC in a way. Had this watch come out two years ago, I think it would have been a smash hit and very hyped up. As it stands - 10 years from now when integrated is no longer the hot thing, we'll all still want the Royal Oak and Patek models the same way my dad never let go of that hot unobtainable car from his youth.... but how will the Ingenieur be remembered?

To be honest the same applies to the BLNR, we never know how the market will be like by end of 2024/early 2025. But we know for a fact that the BLNR has been in production for a while and the market is saturated with this model. So if the prices keep on dropping you might be able to get this at retail and with short waiting times sooner than you expect. Most boutiques (in their safes) and all of the grey dealers have it ready in stock in multiple numbers and for an acceptable price.
Regarding the Ingenieur's availability and price, anything is possible. But from my understanding, I don't think IWC is planning on increasing its production or making it readily available any time soon. This doesn't mean that you won't be able to find it, after a year or so, in the grey market for under retail - I don't know and no one knows. In 2015, I was offered the nautilus for a discount from an AD but I didn't buy it! Had I known that its price will increase this much I would have purchased 2
I think most people are judging the Ingenieur without even handling one. The watch is beautiful and the quality is top notch - and this is coming from a RO owner (my favorite watch). I sometimes wonder if the price difference between these two is justifiable. I don't own the Ingenieur yet but I've tried it on several times and I would love to own the black dial version if the boutique allocates one for me.

[Inseconds99]

Originally Posted by dr.ns23

To be honest the same applies to the BLNR, we never know how the market will be like by end of 2024/early 2025. But we know for a fact that the BLNR has been in production for a while and the market is saturated with this model. So if the prices keep on dropping you might be able to get this at retail and with short waiting times sooner than you expect. Most boutiques (in their safes) and all of the grey dealers have it ready in stock in multiple numbers and for an acceptable price.
Regarding the Ingenieur's availability and price, anything is possible. But from my understanding, I don't think IWC is planning on increasing its production or making it readily available any time soon. This doesn't mean that you won't be able to find it, after a year or so, in the grey market for under retail - I don't know and no one knows. In 2015, I was offered the nautilus for a discount from an AD but I didn't buy it! Had I known that its price will increase this much I would have purchased 2
I think most people are judging the Ingenieur without even handling one. The watch is beautiful and the quality is top notch - and this is coming from a RO owner (my favorite watch). I sometimes wonder if the price difference between these two is justifiable. I don't own the Ingenieur yet but I've tried it on several times and I would love to own the black dial version if the boutique allocates one for me.

Thank you for this comment. I don’t disagree with what you’re saying as no one knows. What is clear is, BLNR at retail is very difficult to get.

I can walk in today and get an Ingenieur. They had multiple black at Hudson in NYC last Friday, they had a white at the boutique available for immediate purchase in midtown and the Aqua was there but had just been sold.

I also was offered the Black and Aqua already from IWC e-commerce team. To be clear, I have zero spend history with IWC.

What I can say for sure is as of now, IWC is becoming readily available in multiple colors, and the most difficult color (Aqua), is also accessible. The BLNR or any steel GMT is nearly impossible to get for retail as of now.

To be clear, I love the Ingenieur, even though that movement leaves a lot to be desired. I will be buying an Aqua in the further. You can’t compare it to the RO as that has a real movement, and next level, amazing finishing.

[scarlet knight]

But the Ingy costs a quarter less than the Royal Oak.

[dr.ns23]

Originally Posted by Inseconds99

Thank you for this comment. I don’t disagree with what you’re saying as no one knows. What is clear is, BLNR at retail is very difficult to get.

I can walk in today and get an Ingenieur. They had multiple black at Hudson in NYC last Friday, they had a white at the boutique available for immediate purchase in midtown and the Aqua was there but had just been sold.

I also was offered the Black and Aqua already from IWC e-commerce team. To be clear, I have zero spend history with IWC.

What I can say for sure is as of now, IWC is becoming readily available in multiple colors, and the most difficult color (Aqua), is also accessible. The BLNR or any steel GMT is nearly impossible to get for retail as of now.

To be clear, I love the Ingenieur, even though that movement leaves a lot to be desired. I will be buying an Aqua in the further. You can’t compare it to the RO as that has a real movement, and next level, amazing finishing.

Thanks for your reply too.
I am surprised to know that the Ingenieur is easily available in NYC. In my country it is almost impossible to get it without having to wait for at least 6-12 months and you should have a spend history with IWC.
You're right that the BLNR is not immediately available but the wait times reduced a lot. I have two friends with 0 purchase history from Rolex that were able to get the BLNR in less than a month wait at 2 different ADs. A third one was even approached by the AD and was given the choice to select between the Sub LV and the Sprite GMT and he only has a date just that he purchased few years ago. Things are changing...
Anyways we can go on and on with these stories. I guess what matters the most is buying the watch you love regardless of its current value in the market. This can change quickly and suddenly...
As for the RO vs Ingenieur, I don't think the difference in finishing and movement is worth the additional 20k or so... Just my opinion

[Inseconds99]

Originally Posted by dr.ns23

Thanks for your reply too.
I am surprised to know that the Ingenieur is easily available in NYC. In my country it is almost impossible to get it without having to wait for at least 6-12 months and you should have a spend history with IWC.
You're right that the BLNR is not immediately available but the wait times reduced a lot. I have two friends with 0 purchase history from Rolex that were able to get the BLNR in less than a month wait at 2 different ADs. A third one was even approached by the AD and was given the choice to select between the Sub LV and the Sprite GMT and he only has a date just that he purchased few years ago. Things are changing...
Anyways we can go on and on with these stories. I guess what matters the most is buying the watch you love regardless of its current value in the market. This can change quickly and suddenly...
As for the RO vs Ingenieur, I don't think the difference in finishing and movement is worth the additional 20k or so... Just my opinion

Ingenieur retail is 11.7k USD, RO is 27.8k, so it’s about 16.1k difference. You may be right about that difference in price being not worth it.

But I’d argue that the movement in that Ingenieur is in a Mark XX which can be had in open market for 4.2k. Is the finishing on the Ingenieur 5.5k more than a Mark XX?

All of this is perceived value at the end of the day. I’m my opinion, as beautiful as the new Ingenieur is, that screwed up with the movement choice. Likely ruined any chance the watch had from being a true collectors piece. Instead, it’s just a very nice watch.

[kyleg531]

Trying to understand the movement concern. My first reaction was that 120 hours sounds great. Is it that the movement is found in a cheaper model or that they should’ve built a new movement altogether for this model?

[scarlet knight]

You can’t walk into an AP dealer and get a Royal Oak for $27k. They cost in the 40s at gray market dealers.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Inseconds99

Thank you for this comment. I don’t disagree with what you’re saying as no one knows. What is clear is, BLNR at retail is very difficult to get.

I can walk in today and get an Ingenieur. They had multiple black at Hudson in NYC last Friday, they had a white at the boutique available for immediate purchase in midtown and the Aqua was there but had just been sold.

I also was offered the Black and Aqua already from IWC e-commerce team. To be clear, I have zero spend history with IWC.

What I can say for sure is as of now, IWC is becoming readily available in multiple colors, and the most difficult color (Aqua), is also accessible. The BLNR or any steel GMT is nearly impossible to get for retail as of now.

To be clear, I love the Ingenieur, even though that movement leaves a lot to be desired. I will be buying an Aqua in the further. You can’t compare it to the RO as that has a real movement, and next level, amazing finishing.

That's interesting about the e-commerce offering. I called on release date and have been receiving email updates but not offered one to purchase yet.

[Inseconds99]

Originally Posted by EEpro

That's interesting about the e-commerce offering. I called on release date and have been receiving email updates but not offered one to purchase yet.

Same, I called pretty early the day it was announced as well. I was offered the Black dial in September, turned it down and Aqua, the first week of Nov.

[Inseconds99]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

You can’t walk into an AP dealer and get a Royal Oak for $27k. They cost in the 40s at gray market dealers.

You also can’t walk into Rolex and buy a BLNR, but you certainly get a RO in silver or black without waiting too long. Blue, well, that’s another story.

[dr.ns23]

Originally Posted by Inseconds99

You also can’t walk into Rolex and buy a BLNR, but you certainly get a RO in silver or black without waiting too long. Blue, well, that’s another story.

this is a new example of short wait times:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=929886

I saw this thread and remembered our conversation here...

[Inseconds99]

Originally Posted by dr.ns23

this is a new example of short wait times:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=929886

I saw this thread and remembered our conversation here...

Def awesome if true, it’s just the internet and people chase clout. Not the norm that’s for certain.

I had a great experience with a new AD last year and was able to get a Tiffany OP for my wife as first allocated watch. Took about 2-3 months. Considering the watch that was pretty good.

So quick turn around times can happen on these hyped pieces. Unlikely, but possible.

I

[ChetBaker]

Originally Posted by Inseconds99

You can’t compare it to the RO as that has a real movement, and next level, amazing finishing.

Not the 15550 in all its variants because those have an outsourced Vaucher that’s far from well-finished.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

Not the 15550 in all its variants because those have an outsourced Vaucher that’s far from well-finished.

Chet, this is the bash Ingenieur thread. Please keep your alternative facts to yourself

[Inseconds99]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Chet, this is the bash Ingenieur thread. Please keep your alternative facts to yourself

Love your watch, looks great. If you check my other posts, I am a huge fan of the Ingenieur. Just because I am a fan and will own one in the future, doesn’t mean that all is perfect.

I think people misconstrue heathy criticism as bashing the watch. Nothing is perfect, it’s completely fine to bring up concerns.

I love the watch, it’s beautiful in person, the Aqua dial is amazing, the bracelet is very comfortable and hugs the wrist nicely. I also think the size, thickness and lug to lug are perfect for my wrist.

My concerns; movement is basic, no quick adjust clasp (the one announced looks horrible), black dial is difficult to read and price is too high.

All of these are my opinions on a watch I love, I am not bashing at all.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Inseconds99

Love your watch, looks great. If you check my other posts, I am a huge fan of the Ingenieur. Just because I am a fan and will own one in the future, doesn’t mean that all is perfect.

I think people misconstrue heathy criticism as bashing the watch. Nothing is perfect, it’s completely fine to bring up concerns.

I love the watch, it’s beautiful in person, the Aqua dial is amazing, the bracelet is very comfortable and hugs the wrist nicely. I also think the size, thickness and lug to lug are perfect for my wrist.

My concerns; movement is basic, no quick adjust clasp (the one announced looks horrible), black dial is difficult to read and price is too high.

All of these are my opinions on a watch I love, I am not bashing at all.

All good. Agree on the clasp adjustment. I wish they could add hidden stretch like Forstner or 2mm pop out like VC.

Movement looks pretty good to me. Price is fine for me and Mark XX is the weirdest comparison going online right now.

[scarlet knight]

I have the black Ingy and it is clear as a bell to read. And I have post Medicare aged eyes.

[ISWing]

If someone is looking for the white dial version in the UK give me a DM as I know one is available in a store at retail at the moment.

[Andy81]

Tried one on last week. Lively watch but I nearly fell off my chair when I heard the price - I’d much rather go with one of the IWC pilot watches, or as a similar looking watch, a Zenith Defy.

[PBJ1925]

Also tried on last week, along with the GP Laureato & Chopard Alpine Eagle.

For me it was:

GP > IWC > Chopard.

IWC was fine, perhaps if there was a screaming deal on the secondary market I would consider.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by PBJ1925

Also tried on last week, along with the GP Laureato & Chopard Alpine Eagle.

For me it was:

GP > IWC > Chopard.

IWC was fine, perhaps if there was a screaming deal on the secondary market I would consider.

GP was nice. I tried one on a while back. The dial wasn't quite convincing enough but the steel was indeed finished really well.

[trackingtime]

i believe in singapore, IWC adjusted prices of their watches down

[Batmannr1]

Originally Posted by trackingtime

i believe in singapore, IWC adjusted prices of their watches down

Any specifics like which model(s) or what percentage of decrease?

[ap1]

I see a US ad with online purchasing for both silver and black dials. Wow. The scarcity thing just not happening for this model.

[Inseconds99]

Originally Posted by ap1

I see a US ad with online purchasing for both silver and black dials. Wow. The scarcity thing just not happening for this model.

As a huge fan of the watch, they priced most people out of buying. If the watch had a high quality in house movement, it would move a bit more. With the current movement, it’s 4-5k overpriced.

[nickorette]

Mine came in for Christmas, love it!!

Bracelet very comfortable, all the high polish elements add a sharp, premium touch. Dial is unique with it's pattern and depth. Has a great story/history behind it as well

[John Doyle]

Objectively find the watch ugly and overpriced.