Grand Seiko vs Rolex Explorer I (39mm)

[padi56]

Originally Posted by MrLee

Padi great knowledge and thanks for that, but it was my friend mp5 (or as i will now refer to him mr wis) I was hoping was going to substantiate his supposed great knowledge of all things horological, lucky for him he had you to save him

No one loves Rolex more than I do but I do appreciate and can see much further that just a name on a dial.Now several years ago when this forum was first started we had the Rolex Tudor, Rolex saga.But now down to the education by the many members on TRF, many can now see the merits of the Tudor brand with the brand recondition it deserves. And now hopefully again with education many can see the merits of Seiko, and Seiko grand, rather than just stereo type a name on a dial.And this not about value how much will it sell for etc, its about the overall quality of the product,now with watches today for some its not a watch anymore its just a $$$$£££££ object.

[Gerardus]

Originally Posted by F.Works

Audi makes the A1 and the A8 . Seiko makes the best automatic in 100$ and the same Expensive watch like Rolex. In Japan Seiko is considered like Rolex in top watches but in Europe still are further due to the bad Marketing . The people only knows the basic watches.

Same opinion

[MrLee]

Originally Posted by MP5

If you look at my posts I have covered this subject plenty of times. I have no intention to educate you about how silly your comments were, how completely unknowledgeable you are on the vitriol you spewed. Sure you are playing nice and dancing with strawmen after Padi shone that flashlight directly on you. If it was Padi that had to educate you or me the fact is the same, you dont know what you are talking about. Enjoy your day and remember you were laughably educated today despite your puffery.

Absolute rubbish, my points are still valid. The spring drive uses quartz, fact

Dancing with straw men! I answered padi's posts with respect because unlike you he didn't result to personal attacks, I also pointed out in his image post that regardless of not looking like a quartz movement, it still contained quartz features. The difference between you and padi is you had no valid points in any of your posts other than substantiating what I had just said regarding designs and quartz features, and got offended that I had pointed them out to people who were not aware

But my main point was regarding the two peices in question, which do I prefer, well it's the purely mechanical one with the better looks and history, the explorer, so nothing has changed

[MrLee]

Originally Posted by diver2012

So now you have been presented with the evidence - have you got more respect for GS than before?

I've always had 'respect' for GS from a hybrid movement point of view, but not from a design point of view or as a mechanical peice of horology. The same way I had respect for the seiko kenetic in the nineties. I just wouldn't want a GS for the reasons I have already outlined. So given the option of an explorer or the GS in question I would choose the explorer, nothing's changed

[MP5]

This is what you call, back against the wall mentality. Its boorish and juvenile, please own it and do the community a service by not making uninformed comments with such chest swelling bravado. Look into it, read what you wrote and become a more tolerant and understanding member. Until that happens I will use the ignore feature, but I do wish you luck and knowledge along the way.

[MrLee]

Originally Posted by padi56

No one loves Rolex more than I do but I do appreciate and can see much further that just a name on a dial.Now several years ago when this forum was first started we had the Rolex Tudor, Rolex saga.But now down to the education by the many members on TRF, many can now see the merits of the Tudor brand with the brand recondition it deserves. And now hopefully again with education many can see the merits of Seiko, and Seiko grand, rather than just stereo type a name on a dial.And this not about value how much will it sell for etc, its about the overall quality of the product,now with watches today for some its not a watch anymore its just a $$$$£££££ object.

My problems with the watch in question are less about the name on the dial, and more to do with the looks, heritage of the model and the quartz features when compared to the explorer. The explorer is an iconic beutiful mechanical watch, the GS is for me not as good looking, lacks the history and heritage and has quartz features, so for me the explorer is the one I would choose. Hence the fact you will never hear me spout anything about resale values etc, its irrelevant

[MrLee]

Originally Posted by MP5

This is what you call, back against the wall mentality. Its boorish and juvenile, please own it and do the community a service by not making uninformed comments with such chest swelling bravado. Look into it, read what you wrote and become a more tolerant and understanding member. Until that happens I will use the ignore feature, but I do wish you luck and knowledge along the way.

Yet again, a post filled with self righteous drivel and no substance

Uninformed comments, where? You agreed with everything I've said, about the quartz issues, and design is subjective so how that's uninformed is beyond me

Good luck to you to

[Minuteman]

I'll put some wood on the fire here.

It har been made a point of Seiko's lack of history and tradition in this thread. Don't you know better or is this done do mislead others.

Seiko was founded in 1881. Beats Rolex by some 30 years.

Seiko has invented more historical news in the world of watches than Rolex will ever do.

And while I'm at it:
There is Explorer an Explorer II - no Explorer I.
There is Sub an Sub Date - no Sub No-date.

That said, I would choose the Explorer over GS any time. The GS Spring Drive is even less attractive, with it's quartz-adjusted movement.

[HL65]

[MrLee]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Well nobody can say this thread hasn't been interesting

[Nidal]

A fully loaded Accord vs. Benz E class.
It's a matter of taste at the end.

They'll say "nice Seiko". Or "wow, is that. A Rolex?"

Again, and at the end it's what you like.
Think of resale value too.

[Daytona-Dan]

Originally Posted by Billywiz

I indicated that I prefer and would choose any Rolex over any Seiko without a thought.

This is exactly where I stand on any Seiko. For me it's about the brand and I buy watches based on personal choice and for me a Seiko (grand or not) will always be a Seiko. Is my decision or choice misinformed? Probably, but no amount of research into Seiko will ever change my mind so I don't even bother wasting my time.

I appreciate they are probably fine watches, they are just not for me.

[OrangeSport]

I love the GS range. Their history is fascinating, and when you see and handle their watches you realise that pictures just do them no justice. None at all. I think they offer staggering value for money.

But, like a couple of other posters, when it comes to spending the cash the brand name of Rolex might, just might, win me over. I would like to think it wouldn't though.

Definitely a brand I keep revisiting. The GMT models are stunning.

[ecsub44]

Originally Posted by Daytona-Dan

This is exactly where I stand on any Seiko. For me it's about the brand and I buy watches based on personal choice and for me a Seiko (grand or not) will always be a Seiko. Is my decision or choice misinformed? Probably, but no amount of research into Seiko will ever change my mind so I don't even bother wasting my time.

I appreciate they are probably fine watches, they are just not for me.

Really?

You admit to likely being misinformed...and then you entirely shut the door on the possibility of changing your mind. I don't understand that.

I can appreciate the viewpoint of where someone can prefer Rolex over GS. But to sa that no amount of information learned will make you like GS means to me that you're being a Rolex fanboy and are unwilling to even consider the merits of another brand.

Why not check some GS models out and make a fair and educated decision?

There sure are some confusing statements in this thread.

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by MrLee

I've always had 'respect' for GS from a hybrid movement point of view

You're really hammering home the Seiko = quartz thing. You realize that Grand Seikos aren't all Spring Drive, right? The SBGA001 is Spring Drive, but many are 10bps automatics. Seiko existed almost 90 years before making its first quartz watch; viewing Seiko's history as "the quartz guys" is a bit arbitrary.

Originally Posted by padi56

several years ago when this forum was first started we had the Rolex Tudor, Rolex saga.But now down to the education by the many members on TRF, many can now see the merits of the Tudor brand with the brand recondition it deserves.

Perfect analogy, Peter! A few years ago there was a rather pervasive "Tudor? Psshhh whatever, it's no Rolex" mindset on here. I didn't use to appreciate Tudor but now I do.

Originally Posted by Billywiz

WRONG !
I NEVER SAID ROLEX WAS BETTER...I indicated that I prefer and would choose any Rolex over any Seiko without a thought...Slow down a little and read more slowly and relax.

Please don't tell people to read more slowly and relax; this forum is a better place without condescending comments like that.

[Billywiz]

Originally Posted by Daytona-Dan

This is exactly where I stand on any Seiko. For me it's about the brand and I buy watches based on personal choice and for me a Seiko (grand or not) will always be a Seiko. Is my decision or choice misinformed? Probably, but no amount of research into Seiko will ever change my mind so I don't even bother wasting my time.

I appreciate they are probably fine watches, they are just not for me.

Exactly....

[Billywiz]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

You're really hammering home the Seiko = quartz thing. You realize that Grand Seikos aren't all Spring Drive, right? The SBGA001 is Spring Drive, but many are 10bps automatics. Seiko existed almost 90 years before making its first quartz watch; viewing Seiko's history as "the quartz guys" is a bit arbitrary.



Perfect analogy, Peter! A few years ago there was a rather pervasive "Tudor? Psshhh whatever, it's no Rolex" mindset on here. I didn't use to appreciate Tudor but now I do.



Please don't tell people to read more slowly and relax; this forum is a better place without condescending comments like that.

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by Billywiz

Do you have a question, Billy?

[HL65]

One comment I will make is that it is all too often we see people feeling the need to put down another brand to prop theirs up. I for one can appreciate the merits of ownining and attributes of many brands. A truly great brand or watch house should be able to stand on their own merits without the need to slam another watch house. There are plenty of great watches out there and many options for us all to choose from. Have a great Father's Day all and enjoy your watches regardless of what brand they are! Cheers,

[diver2012]

Originally Posted by Billywiz

Exactly....

At least you are openly admitting you are a 'badge snob'.

Fair play - I would rather people admit that is the reason for not looking at GS than just putting them down based on incorrect info.

[Daytona-Dan]

Originally Posted by ecsub44

Really?

You admit to likely being misinformed...and then you entirely shut the door on the possibility of changing your mind. I don't understand that.

I can appreciate the viewpoint of where someone can prefer Rolex over GS. But to sa that no amount of information learned will make you like GS means to me that you're being a Rolex fanboy and are unwilling to even consider the merits of another brand.

Not true, I am happy to consider other brands, just not anything with Seiko in the name. For me that name alone is a deal breaker, no matter how much I research it, it will always be a Seiko in my mind.

I'm sure there are some out there that are happy to spend thousands on a solid gold Casio for example, but again, I wouldn't even consider it. Does this make it a poor quality watch? No, it's just not a name I would spend thousands on.

I would pick a Rolex SS SubC for £5700 over a SOLID GOLD Seiko for £5700 any day. To me, it's not about value of materials or which is physically worth more or even better value for money, it's about the name and I would not be happy wearing a Seiko in place of a Rolex. It's just not going to happen.

You can call me as shallow as you like, I'm just being honest.

[ecsub44]

Originally Posted by Daytona-Dan

Not true, I am happy to consider other brands, just not anything with Seiko in the name. For me that name alone is a deal breaker, no matter how much I research it, it will always be a Seiko in my mind.

I'm sure there are some out there that are happy to spend thousands on a solid gold Casio for example, but again, I wouldn't even consider it. Does this make it a poor quality watch? No, it's just not a name I would spend thousands on.

I would pick a Rolex SS SubC for £5700 over a SOLID GOLD Seiko for £5700 any day. To me, it's not about value of materials or which is physically worth more or even better value for money, it's about the name and I would not be happy wearing a Seiko in place of a Rolex. It's just not going to happen.

You can call me as shallow as you like, I'm just being honest.

I can appreciate the honesty.

But I don't understand the merits of judging/buying a watch (or anything) based solely on the brand name.

I prefer to make a purchase based on quality and price.

I guess I'm more interested in making myself happy than I am in impressing others.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

One comment I will make is that it is all too often we see people feeling the need to put down another brand to prop theirs up. I for one can appreciate the merits of ownining and attributes of many brands. A truly great brand or watch house should be able to stand on their own merits without the need to slam another watch house. There are plenty of great watches out there and many options for us all to choose from. Have a great Father's Day all and enjoy your watches regardless of what brand they are! Cheers,

+100. Very well said!

Have to say all these threads about Grand Seiko got me very curious. Have a trip to Tokyo later this year and will try to check them out.

[Billywiz]

Originally Posted by Daytona-Dan

Not true, I am happy to consider other brands, just not anything with Seiko in the name. For me that name alone is a deal breaker, no matter how much I research it, it will always be a Seiko in my mind.

I'm sure there are some out there that are happy to spend thousands on a solid gold Casio for example, but again, I wouldn't even consider it. Does this make it a poor quality watch? No, it's just not a name I would spend thousands on.

I would pick a Rolex SS SubC for £5700 over a SOLID GOLD Seiko for £5700 any day. To me, it's not about value of materials or which is physically worth more or even better value for money, it's about the name and I would not be happy wearing a Seiko in place of a Rolex. It's just not going to happen.

You can call me as shallow as you like, I'm just being honest.

Again Dan I agree with you...some folks are reading our expressing our choice to prefer Rolex to Seiko as critacism ...

When I choose Rolex I am also buying into the history , heritage , Kudos etc...of the Brand. This is all part of the Rolex experiance as the marketing Guys might say. Seiko would not do it for me. Perfectly happy to accept it does do it for others.

[Daytona-Dan]

Originally Posted by ecsub44

I guess I'm more interested in making myself happy than I am in impressing others.

It's not about impressing others. Wearing a brand like Rolex makes me feel better about myself. I don't show it off and I tend to prefer people to notice it on their own accord if they can spot it hidden under the cuffs. Also, when you're wearing a solid gold Daytona out in public, you tend to not try and attract unwanted attention with it so your imaginary view of me flashing it around is unfounded.

I wear it because I like it and for no other reason.
I simply would not feel as good wearing a Seiko. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Billywiz

Again Dan I agree with you...some folks are reading our expressing our choice to prefer Rolex to Seiko as critacism ...

When I choose Rolex I am also buying into the history , heritage , Kudos etc...of the Brand. This is all part of the Rolex experiance as the marketing Guys might say. Seiko would not do it for me. Perfectly happy to accept it does do it for others.

You got me right! It's not about criticising Seiko, I'm sure they make fine watches!
I'm also perfectly happy with other peoples choices and will think no less of anyone wearing a Grand Seiko.
It's just not for me...

[Billywiz]

Originally Posted by ecsub44

I can appreciate the honesty.

But I don't understand the merits of judging/buying a watch (or anything) based solely on the brand name.

I prefer to make a purchase based on quality and price.

I guess I'm more interested in making myself happy than I am in impressing others.

Agreed...Analogy to Lexus / BMW...both great cars of equal quality. One I find dull and boring the other puts a smile on my face every time I climb into it. ( Guess which one )

Its just choice and part of choosing is whatever stirs your emotion. For me Rolex does where a Seiko never could...my choice that all.

[diver2012]

Originally Posted by Billywiz

Agreed...Analogy to Lexus / BMW...both great cars of equal quality. One I find dull and boring the other puts a smile on my face every time I climb into it. ( Guess which one )

Its just choice and part of choosing is whatever stirs your emotion. For me Rolex does where a Seiko never could...my choice that all.

Dull and boring?

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by Daytona-Dan

Wearing a brand like Rolex makes me feel better about myself.

Valid point, Dan. I can appreciate that social perceptions and brands influence what we truly like, whether or not we're trying to impress others. Having a Rolex on does "feel" mighty good! And Rolex is certainly my favorite watch brand. But, Grand Seiko is a solid #2 for me.

Originally Posted by Billywiz

Agreed...Analogy to Lexus / BMW...both great cars of equal quality. One I find dull and boring the other puts a smile on my face every time I climb into it. ( Guess which one )
Its just choice and part of choosing is whatever stirs your emotion.

I'm with you there - I think that's actually not a bad analogy! I chose Lexus though.

[ecsub44]

Originally Posted by Billywiz

Agreed...Analogy to Lexus / BMW...both great cars of equal quality. One I find dull and boring the other puts a smile on my face every time I climb into it. ( Guess which one )

Its just choice and part of choosing is whatever stirs your emotion. For me Rolex does where a Seiko never could...my choice that all.

Understood. And in this case, you're well informed about both brands. My point is the situation where someone has never seen, driven, or educated themselves on a Lexus and instead will buy the BMW without considering other options.

It's like saying, "I don't know anything about Lexus...but I know I don't like it." What?

Some here aren't informed about GS (a few have admitted it). I think it's a disservice to dismiss certain brands simply because they don't say "Rolex" on the dial...especially if you're misinformed about those brands.

[Daytona-Dan]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

Valid point, Dan. I can appreciate that social perceptions and brands influence what we truly like, whether or not we're trying to impress others.

Having a Rolex on does "feel" mighty good! And Rolex is certainly my favorite watch brand. But, Grand Seiko is a solid #2 for me.

If everyone liked the same things the whole world would be extremely dull! I appreciate the banter, I wish more forum goers could realise the difference between friendly debate and abusive argument!