Why is buying a car so hard/insulting?

[swils8610]

Your a true gentleman Paul! My apologies as well!

[Rashid.bk]

Dealership experience and buying a car is the worst experience of all the buying of merchandise I do. Buying a car using Wesley's advice by using the internet sales dept is perfect....for buying a Honda Accord, MB C450, or Audi A4, basically any normal car that can be found on a lot. But this technique won't work when you want a car like a Hellcat, Ford GT350, Cayman GT4 or even the new M3.
When you want to buy a niche lower production specialty car your bargaining power can be hindered and the games are absolutely ludicrous on getting discounts or the trade in value of your car.

Just recently I tried to buy a 2016 M3. I want it built with certain packages, and cannot find it built like that on a lot. This will be a special order like 50% of M3/4 orders. So first you have to get an allocation from a dealer, I ended up going out of state because none can be had anywhere in central-western Texas and then to work out the price is a nightmare because they know the vehicle is difficult to allocate, and of course they want to rob me on my trade in.

It has been like this with every car I've bought over the last nine years because I have an unfortunate taste in niche cars. It started with my STI, Mazdazpeed3, Evo X MR and now my M3. Had zero issues negotiating or buying family cars. My Honda Odyssey, or BMW X5 were uneventful purchases in which I had much leverage in negotiating.

My experience is that if you want a specialty car, get ready for the circus. I loathe dealing with 99% of stealerships when buying a car.

[miteemike3]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

...Buying a car using Wesley's advice by using the internet sales dept is perfect....for buying a Honda Accord, MB C450, or Audi A4, basically any normal car that can be found on a lot. But this technique won't work when you want a car like a Hellcat, Ford GT350, Cayman GT4 or even the new M3.
When you want to buy a niche lower production specialty car your bargaining power can be hindered and the games are absolutely ludicrous on getting discounts or the trade in value of your car.

Exactly - has been my experience as well. I don't have any niche or specialty cars at the moment, just normal cars that can easily be found on most lots. I do all my negotiation via email and once I have a price I'm comfortable with in writing, I make an appointment with my dealer and am in and out in less than an hour. When I'm at the dealership, it's strictly to sign papers and pick up my new car.

If you want something special, well... you know the game - gotta pay to play It's important to remember that you as the consumer have the power to walk away, difficult as it may be. Don't like a price quote, "xx" salesman is treating you like an idiot, etc. etc, walk away and find another dealership

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

Dealership experience and buying a car is the worst experience of all the buying of merchandise I do. Buying a car using Wesley's advice by using the internet sales dept is perfect....for buying a Honda Accord, MB C450, or Audi A4, basically any normal car that can be found on a lot. But this technique won't work when you want a car like a Hellcat, Ford GT350, Cayman GT4 or even the new M3.
When you want to buy a niche lower production specialty car your bargaining power can be hindered and the games are absolutely ludicrous on getting discounts or the trade in value of your car.

Just recently I tried to buy a 2016 M3. I want it built with certain packages, and cannot find it built like that on a lot. This will be a special order like 50% of M3/4 orders. So first you have to get an allocation from a dealer, I ended up going out of state because none can be had anywhere in central-western Texas and then to work out the price is a nightmare because they know the vehicle is difficult to allocate, and of course they want to rob me on my trade in.

It has been like this with every car I've bought over the last nine years because I have an unfortunate taste in niche cars. It started with my STI, Mazdazpeed3, Evo X MR and now my M3. Had zero issues negotiating or buying family cars. My Honda Odyssey, or BMW X5 were uneventful purchases in which I had much leverage in negotiating.

My experience is that if you want a specialty car, get ready for the circus. I loathe dealing with 99% of stealerships when buying a car.

I ordered my 15 from a dealer outside of Philly for 1k over invoice last March. With 2k in incentives I ended up 1k under invoice and ordered it to my liking. I imagine they would do it on a 16 for you as the allocations were notoriously scarce on the 15 m3 as you well know

[ronricks]

I usually just find a handful of dealerships and email them all the car I am looking for and ask them what they can do for me. They all reply and I narrow it down to the 3 best offers and copy them all on a new email and ask who can beat what price. Since they are all on the same email and can see each others email addresses they know I am a serious buyer.

I then narrow it down to one and bring a check for the price of the car they quoted. Never had a problem using this method.

[Jfullm42]

I love buying a car. Walk in with a envelope of $100 bills, name the price and if they don't match it then walk away. It gives me a great sense of ownership knowing that I am in control and will pay what I want, and if they "can't" go it, then they don't get the sale.

Call me weird, but I love continually saying no till they finally agree with my original price. Know what the vehicle is worth, walk in with cash, smile a little and have some fun

[East Bay Rider]

Just an observation about cash car purchases: Back in 2009 I bought 2 CPO Nissan Xterras and wrote a personal check for each. Financing or not did not affect the sale. In neither case did the dealer appear to care what form the payment was in or if I could afford to buy them outright or not. Maybe that's different than at luxury brands but Nissan didn't care.

[mfer]

I think this is the most popular thread I have ever made!......and it isn't watch related :-/

[jcd]

I've read through this whole thread with interest. You see I'm in the market for a new pick-up. I'd like to order one. I've researched the product and driven the trucks and I know what I'd like and how I want it equipped. I guess what my question is, with all these references to "research" that people make, on what sites are you doing that pricing research? Google shows me a lot of sites that don't seem real helpful. I just want to see prices I should expect to pay for a vehicle equipped like I'd like. Edmunds and True Car want an email address and I'm a little leery of giving them that. Maybe I shouldn't be?

So, like I said, I've searched, but I'm just wondering what sites provided useful info to people in an easy to use fashion, based upon your experiences anyway. Any recommendations? I just want to walk in and say I would like this truck at this price (I don't have a trade).

I hope asking that isn't derailing this thread, but it seems to be all over the place already anyway.....

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by jcd

I've read through this whole thread with interest. You see I'm in the market for a new pick-up. I'd like to order one. I've researched the product and driven the trucks and I know what I'd like and how I want it equipped. I guess what my question is, with all these references to "research" that people make, on what sites are you doing that pricing research? Google shows me a lot of sites that don't seem real helpful. I just want to see prices I should expect to pay for a vehicle equipped like I'd like. Edmunds and True Car want an email address and I'm a little leery of giving them that. Maybe I shouldn't be?

So, like I said, I've searched, but I'm just wondering what sites provided useful info to people in an easy to use fashion, based upon your experiences anyway. Any recommendations? I just want to walk in and say I would like this truck at this price (I don't have a trade).

I hope asking that isn't derailing this thread, but it seems to be all over the place already anyway.....

Set up a disposable email on Hotmail for this purpose. Don't pay for an account, don't populate personal data on the account, just get the free junk account. Refer all your shopping research to this email. Once you've purchased the truck, walkaway from it (it will be junk mail heaven).

[SMD]

There sure a lot of straw men that have taken a pounding on this thread.

[swils8610]

Give TrueCar your email address. They generally have accurate pricing.

[daunwaun]

So seriously, who buys a car without driving it first. All these people on here...yeah, I just pick up the phone order it and have it delivered. I guess if you have millions in disposable income you can buy a car, hate it and get rid of it.

Are most dealerships into selling games...sure. Walk away if you don't feel comfortable...its that simple.

Take 30 min, research and go from there.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by daunwaun

So seriously, who buys a car without driving it first. All these people on here...yeah, I just pick up the phone order it and have it delivered. I guess if you have millions in disposable income you can buy a car, hate it and get rid of it.

Are most dealerships into selling games...sure. Walk away if you don't feel comfortable...its that simple.

Take 30 min, research and go from there.

My car wasn't available for test drive near me as it had just been released and was in very short supply due to some crappy forecasting on BMWs end. It didn't really matter because if you drive enough from one brand you generally know what you're getting.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by daunwaun

So seriously, who buys a car without driving it first. All these people on here...yeah, I just pick up the phone order it and have it delivered. I guess if you have millions in disposable income you can buy a car, hate it and get rid of it.

Are most dealerships into selling games...sure. Walk away if you don't feel comfortable...its that simple.

Take 30 min, research and go from there.

I bought the last three without driving them, and still have all three. I've kept them 13 years, 8 years, and two years. If you know what you want, you don't need to go sit in it to know you still like it. And, you don't need to pay the overheads of a middleman for the privilege of a test drive. If you really HAVE to drive it, rent one for a day and see if it works for you.

[Desibaba]

Buying a new car is extremely easy if you use truecar.com. You need to remember that when your friend/neighbor/coworker tells you that he is driving that $100k car for zero down and $500 a month its possible he is LYING because he is trying to impress you that he is so smart and he can get a deal that no one else can. The best example of that happened to me yesterday. Customer A walks in the store and tells me his friend "Joe Shmoe" got a new 2016 Lexus GS for zero down and $375 a month from us last week and he wants the exact same deal.

I said no problem we will give him the same deal but I will need to call his buddy Joe Shmoe to make sure he is okay with disclosing the details of his transaction to this guy. We call Joe and Joe said he doesn't mind us telling his friend what he paid for the car, etc. I pulled up the exact pricing sheet from the computer and it turns out the customer had actually put $3k down and was paying $475 a month and yes we will honor the deal. He did end up taking the car home.

Buyers are liars. Until I got in the car business I used to think the dealers were shady and crooks. Now I realize the customers are a lot worse than we are. Most dealers these days offer a 3 or 5 day return policy. If you really think your deal was so bad then return the car and go elsewhere.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

Buyers are liars. Until I got in the car business I used to think the dealers were shady and crooks. Now I realize the customers are a lot worse than we are. Most dealers these days offer a 3 or 5 day return policy. If you really think your deal was so bad then return the car and go elsewhere.

Buyers are often sucked in by false advertising, tricks, deception and they are taken advantage of at numerous turns of the deal.

I am not buying your statement nor a car from you.

[rozyd]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

Buying a new car is extremely easy if you use truecar.com. You need to remember that when your friend/neighbor/coworker tells you that he is driving that $100k car for zero down and $500 a month its possible he is LYING because he is trying to impress you that he is so smart and he can get a deal that no one else can. The best example of that happened to me yesterday. Customer A walks in the store and tells me his friend "Joe Shmoe" got a new 2016 Lexus GS for zero down and $375 a month from us last week and he wants the exact same deal.

I said no problem we will give him the same deal but I will need to call his buddy Joe Shmoe to make sure he is okay with disclosing the details of his transaction to this guy. We call Joe and Joe said he doesn't mind us telling his friend what he paid for the car, etc. I pulled up the exact pricing sheet from the computer and it turns out the customer had actually put $3k down and was paying $475 a month and yes we will honor the deal. He did end up taking the car home.

Buyers are liars. Until I got in the car business I used to think the dealers were shady and crooks. Now I realize the customers are a lot worse than we are. Most dealers these days offer a 3 or 5 day return policy. If you really think your deal was so bad then return the car and go elsewhere.

Originally Posted by subtona

Buyers are often sucked in by false advertising, tricks, deception and they are taken advantage of at numerous turns of the deal.

I am not buying your statement nor a car from you.

I wholeheartedly agree. Hopefully Desibaba your dismissive tone about your customers doesn't come across in real life.

[Desibaba]

Originally Posted by rozyd

I wholeheartedly agree. Hopefully Desibaba your dismissive tone about your customers doesn't come across in real life.

In real life I have to act the part but if I had a dollar for every time a customer told me they were "Coming back later to buy" but didn't or said they were "just looking" and then an hour later were signing paperwork for that car that they were supposedly "Just looking" at then id probably have every Rolex in the book in my collection including a Platona. That tells me they lie constantly and are sometimes way more deceptive can we can ever be. I am one of the top performers in my company in sales and my customer surveys which they receive after the sale are the at the top of the store. I must be doing something right lol

I wish the entire car industry went the Rolex AD way and every car had a 40 percent mark up and the prices were non negotiable. It would make life for us and for the customers a lot easier.

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

In real life I have to act the part but if I had a dollar for every time a customer told me they were "Coming back later to buy" but didn't or said they were "just looking" and then an hour later were signing paperwork for that car that they were supposedly "Just looking" at then id probably have every Rolex in the book in my collection including a Platona. That tells me they lie constantly and are sometimes way more deceptive can we can ever be. I am one of the top performers in my company in sales and my customer surveys which they receive after the sale are the at the top of the store. I must be doing something right lol

I wish the entire car industry went the Rolex AD way and every car had a 40 percent mark up and the prices were non negotiable. It would make life for us and for the customers a lot easier.

Tells me all I need to know...

[subtona]

Originally Posted by wantonebad

People lie, no doubt about it but the mere suggestion that customers are the deceitful ones in this process dismisses your credibility with me out of hand. That's not the norm and the suggestion that it is will devolve this discussion even further.
Well said Gus!

Originally Posted by rozyd

I wholeheartedly agree. Hopefully Desibaba your dismissive tone about your customers doesn't come across in real life.

Originally Posted by Desibaba

In real life I have to act the part but if I had a dollar for every time a customer told me they were "Coming back later to buy" but didn't or said they were "just looking" and then an hour later were signing paperwork for that car that they were supposedly "Just looking" at then id probably have every Rolex in the book in my collection including a Platona. That tells me they lie constantly and are sometimes way more deceptive can we can ever be. I am one of the top performers in my company in sales and my customer surveys which they receive after the sale are the at the top of the store. I must be doing something right lol

I wish the entire car industry went the Rolex AD way and every car had a 40 percent mark up and the prices were non negotiable. It would make life for us and for the customers a lot easier.

That would pretty much eliminate a lot of jobs?

I believe Saturn tried something like that, although I can't recall seeing any of their dealerships around lately.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

In real life I have to act the part but if I had a dollar for every time a customer told me they were "Coming back later to buy" but didn't or said they were "just looking" and then an hour later were signing paperwork for that car that they were supposedly "Just looking" at then id probably have every Rolex in the book in my collection including a Platona. That tells me they lie constantly and are sometimes way more deceptive can we can ever be.

It could also mean they don't want you hovering over their shoulder while they look.

[cedargrove]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

In real life I have to act the part but if I had a dollar for every time a customer told me they were "Coming back later to buy" but didn't or said they were "just looking" and then an hour later were signing paperwork for that car that they were supposedly "Just looking" at then id probably have every Rolex in the book in my collection including a Platona. That tells me they lie constantly and are sometimes way more deceptive can we can ever be.

Really? Your example of customer deception is when they say they are "just looking" and then end up buying a car? I think that's the kind of lying most sales people would welcome. Get real.

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

Buying a new car is extremely easy if you use truecar.com. You need to remember that when your friend/neighbor/coworker tells you that he is driving that $100k car for zero down and $500 a month its possible he is LYING because he is trying to impress you that he is so smart and he can get a deal that no one else can. The best example of that happened to me yesterday. Customer A walks in the store and tells me his friend "Joe Shmoe" got a new 2016 Lexus GS for zero down and $375 a month from us last week and he wants the exact same deal.

I said no problem we will give him the same deal but I will need to call his buddy Joe Shmoe to make sure he is okay with disclosing the details of his transaction to this guy. We call Joe and Joe said he doesn't mind us telling his friend what he paid for the car, etc. I pulled up the exact pricing sheet from the computer and it turns out the customer had actually put $3k down and was paying $475 a month and yes we will honor the deal. He did end up taking the car home.

Buyers are liars. Until I got in the car business I used to think the dealers were shady and crooks. Now I realize the customers are a lot worse than we are. Most dealers these days offer a 3 or 5 day return policy. If you really think your deal was so bad then return the car and go elsewhere.

People lie, no doubt about it but the mere suggestion that customers are the deceitful ones in this process dismisses your credibility with me out of hand. That's not the norm and the suggestion that it is will devolve this discussion even further.

Originally Posted by subtona

Buyers are sucked in by false advertising, tricks, deception and they are taken advantage of at numerous turns of the deal.

I am not buying your statement nor a car from you.

Well said Gus!

[subtona]

I have had poor experience dealing in nyc and neighboring parts, they are always given first opportunity but have not had the interest to do the right thing.

My experience has been much better elsewhere, of 10 new purchases:


I have purchased 2 in nyc area (different dealers), I would prefer to have a single mutually beneficial relationship, each were given the opportunity for additional sales and were grossly offensive regarding their difficult negotiation practices.


I have purchased 8 new vehicles between South Carolina (4) & Albany (3) and Upstate NY (1) And I was a repeat customer with each of them. 1 dealer closed and the other two were driven by availability at the time of purchase.

My long distance purchases have been negotiated over the phone or same day walk in drive out when I was in the area.

price is the first conversation (service is a whole entirely different discussion) I am not interested in squeezing the last nickle out of the dealer but the conversation has to be considerate of both sides of the sale or I walk quick.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by subtona

I have had poor experience dealing in nyc and neighboring parts, they are always given first opportunity but have not had the interest to do the right thing.

My experience has been much better elsewhere, of 10 new purchases:


I have purchased 2 in nyc area (different dealers), I would prefer to have a single mutually beneficial relationship, each were given the opportunity for additional sales and were grossly offensive regarding their difficult negotiation practices.


I have purchased 8 new vehicles between South Carolina (4) & Albany (3) and Upstate NY (1) And I was a repeat customer with each of them. 1 dealer closed and the other two were driven by availability at the time of purchase.

My long distance purchases have been negotiated over the phone or same day walk in drive out when I was in the area.

price is the first conversation (service is a whole entirely different discussion) I am not interested in squeezing the last nickle out of the dealer but the conversation has to be considerate of both sides of the sale or I walk quick.

I have found most dealers in Manhattan are pretty easy to deal with and negotiate with. It's always been quick and easy for me to by from company owned dealers rather than independently owned and operated IMO.

[uscmatt99]

For my most recent purchase I test drove a car similarly equipped to what I wanted at two dealerships, had a face to face with one salesperson at each. After that, I made it known that I intended to custom order my vehicle and asked for the best price from each. Then I just went back and forth with each one by email until neither would budge further, and determined that was probably the fair price in my area.

I checked against prices that people across the country paid for on some enthusiast message boards similar to TRF. Several paid less than me, and I suspect most paid similar or more, but nobody wants to broadcast their less than stellar deal, only the best deals. Same with quarter mile times after mods/tunes and such. That and it depends on how far out you extend your search, for me having a local dealer I bought from that would give me loaners during servicing, free winter wheel storage, etc. made a difference.

In the end I got mine for 5% under MSRP, the best I saw were 7-9%, but often that was for vehicles sitting on the lot, didn't have some options I thought were critical to my purchase, or they searched for months for the unicorn deal. I'm not a fan of negotiating as I'm quite terrible at it, but I'm satisfied with what I paid and absolutely love my ride

[Lordofrolex]

Its the worst

[Desibaba]

It doesn't matter if you sell Kias or Rolls Royces this is usually true in my experience.

[cedargrove]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

It doesn't matter if you sell Kias or Rolls Royces this is usually true in my experience.

Do you really need a sign to remind you that when a customer is done with you, they will likely let you know in a tactful manner?

I'd like to think the sign concludes "therefore graciously let the customer move on", but I'm sure it means quite the opposite.