If you spend $10,000(investing discussion) or more...

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Yobber76

I don't look at watches, cars, guns that I use as an investment. The fact that they are used usually means a loss of value, collector value aside. The fact that I would shoot the gun, drive the car, wear the watch, is the reason I bought them. I have sold guns that went up over time and kept guns that went down in value over time, either for sentimental reasons, or more often, I didn't like the gun once I used it.
Hard to see collector's value when you bought it, anyone remember baseball cards they traded, comic books that got thrown out, lionel trains their Mom sold at a garage sale?
The best way to buy something to make money in the future is to buy it cheap, don't use it and spin it while it's hot, if it ever gets hot. Usually the window to make money is finite. Or just get lucky, find something in your Grandfather's stuff, and wow, it happened to become a collector's item 50 years later.
If I'm going to buy a Rolex, it will be one I want to wear, like the SS SubC I bought this year. Wearing it now. That aside, I think it will retain it's value better than the Tag Heuer I bought 2 years ago. I still own that too, though I wear it less now.

Choosing a Rolex Icon over a Tag Heuer seems to be congruent with my beliefs as well.

[Golf&Watches]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

But are you ok spending $10,000 or more on items that have very limited value retention?

A first class long haul flight is often US$10k. Spent, no return, some additional comfort enjoyed. I'm OK with it.

[Houston77]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Yes you are boorish. Obviously you use a segment but not the entire op to try to win the cheap seats. I clearly state that it’s not a return type of investment.

Just FYI, "boorish" means ill-mannered. Not "boring" as your post implies.

I would think someone with ever-appreciating guitar and real estate investments would know the difference.

[codecow]

If you consider mass production luxury watches to be an investment you should check out the “sports investment” i.e. gambling websites.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by doboy007

Then keep collecting guitars and not watches. Problem solved. Case closed.

Why case closed? I have had similar success with watches and enjoy them and the process much the same.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Yes you are boorish. Obviously you use a segment but not the entire op to try to win the cheap seats. I clearly state that it’s not a return type of investment.

That’s the third time I’ve seen you levy a personal insult.

And for some reason you seem to only respond to negativity. At least that’s what I’m seeing.

Just sayin.

[Houston77]

Originally Posted by codecow

If you consider mass production luxury watches to be an investment you should check out the “sports investment” i.e. gambling websites.

Polarbears: "The Pass Line has better odds than the Field Bet, so a Pass Line bet must be an investment!"

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by codecow

If you consider mass production luxury watches to be an investment you should check out the “sports investment” i.e. gambling websites.

Invest as in spend. A large purchase is an investment in that object. This isn’t a business discussion or career discussion as stated in the op. It’s about choosing wisely and recognizing your investment and hoping to retain that investment not lose it.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Houston77

Polarbears: "The Pass Line has better odds than the Field Bet, so a Pass Line bet must be an investment!"

Added Quotations from yourself doesn’t make it true.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by superdog

That’s the third time I’ve seen you levy a personal insult.

And for some reason you seem to only respond to negativity. At least that’s what I’m seeing.

Just sayin.

I think you need to read the thread in the entirety. I’m responding to pretty much every poster.

[Houston77]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Added Quotations from yourself doesn’t make it true.

That "quote" essentially sums up your entire point of this thread. You aren't talking about "investments." A discussion about which watches may appreciate would be somewhat interesting. You are speaking down to the people on a board - one which attracts fairly intelligent individuals - and lecturing them about not buying unpopular models at retail prices.

[ferrissteve11]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Invest as in spend. A large purchase is an investment in that object. This isn’t a business discussion or career discussion as stated in the op. It’s about choosing wisely and recognizing your investment and hoping to retain that investment not lose it.

A large purchase vs investment. You can 'invest' in bullion. But I can make a large purchase and buy a Motorcycle. One 'holds' my wealth, the other is for fun...both large purchases, but both not investments.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Houston77

Just FYI, "boorish" means ill-mannered. Not "boring" as your post implies.

I would think someone with ever-appreciating guitar and real estate investments would know the difference.

I’m positive I chose the correct adjective.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by ferrissteve11

A large purchase vs investment. You can 'invest' in bullion. But I can make a large purchase and buy a Motorcycle. One 'holds' my wealth, the other is for fun...both large purchases, but both not investments.

Can some be both is the question?

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Houston77

That "quote" essentially sums up your entire point of this thread. You aren't talking about "investments." A discussion about which watches may appreciate would be somewhat interesting. You are speaking down to the people on a board - one which attracts fairly intelligent individuals - and lecturing them about not buying unpopular models at retail prices.

In your opinion which I disagree with.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by superdog

That’s the third time I’ve seen you levy a personal insult.

In all fairness, he's absorbed many more than that.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by pickettt

In all fairness, he's absorbed many more than that.

Correct! Thank you. I believe anything I’ve said has been in response only and with restraint.

[Seibei]

I would not normally perceive a watch as an investment. If I was buying one as an investment I would not want to see value retention. It would have to increase in value, just like any other reasonable investment. This hypothetical investment piece would be kept under lock and key somewhere and not worn.

Luxury items are a luxury and should be managed as such. Investments are investments and should be managed as such.

Buy and enjoy luxury items that you can afford, but forget about rationalizing them as some kind of investment. The reason these are purchased is that they give pleasure.

Am I ok with losing 50% value? Yes, I am ok with losing 100%. As long as it is on my wrist and I am enjoying it.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Seibei

I would not normally perceive a watch as an investment. If I was buying one as an investment I would not want to see value retention. It would have to increase in value, just like any other reasonable investment. This hypothetical investment piece would be kept under lock and key somewhere and not worn.

Luxury items are a luxury and should be managed as such. Investments are investments and should be managed as such.

Buy and enjoy luxury items that you can afford, but forget about rationalizing them as some kind of investment. The reason these are purchased is that they give pleasure.

Am I ok with losing 50% value? Yes, I am ok with losing 100%. As long as it is on my wrist and I am enjoying it.

That’s a fine position to have. For me part of the fun is the risk/reward.

[ferrissteve11]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Can some be both is the question?

I suppose they could be, but the luxury market really isn't the ideal one to park/accrue wealth IMO. I bought my watches and bikes because they bring me enjoyment, not because of their potential as a long term low yield investment. That said buying the 'right brand' for some value retention isn't what I would consider investing per se, more like smart buying. So I don't disagree with you, I just don't view those purchases as traditional investments.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by ferrissteve11

I suppose they could be, but the luxury market really isn't the ideal one to park/accrue wealth IMO. I bought my watches and bikes because they bring me enjoyment, not because of their potential as a long term low yield investment. That said buying the 'right brand' for some value retention isn't what I would consider investing per se, more like smart buying. So I don't disagree with you, I just don't view those purchases as traditional investments.

My career is separate and wealth is a separate entity. I’m not planning to accrue wealth from watches in fact I will never sell any watches. My kids will get my watches but as I purchase each of my watches I try to find pieces I 100% love and at minimum will never lose a penny. Is that position wrong?

[ferrissteve11]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

My career is separate and wealth is a separate entity and I’m not planning to accrue wealth from watches in fact I will never sell any watches my kids will get them but as I purchase each of my watches I try to find pieces I 100% love and at minimum will never lose a penny. Is that position wrong?

No, I'd agree with that, however thinking you won't lose anything on a watch purchase may be a challenge. I bought a DSSD a number of years ago, and its value today is more/less what I originally spent on it. But I bought it to enjoy and if the value increases great if not oh well and I'll continue wearing it. I guess if anything if you buy quality anything to begin with you can mitigate potential risk down the road as there's generally always a market for quality made goods, whatever they may be.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by ferrissteve11

No, I'd agree with that, however thinking you won't lose anything on a watch purchase may be a challenge. I bought a DSSD a number of years ago, and its value today is more/less what I originally spent on it. But I bought it to enjoy and if the value increases great if not oh well and I'll continue wearing it. I guess if anything if you buy quality anything to begin with you can mitigate potential risk down the road as there's generally always a market for quality made goods, whatever they may be.

This is pretty much how I feel as well. This isn’t a militant exercise by any means.

[bax_tron]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

I should have taken a poll. Being ok with losing money is an acceptable response. I’d prefer to not lose money therefore I’m not a subscriber to your position but your position is still valid.

You are assuming that we buy watches (or any other luxury-non-essential good) with the intention of selling.

You don't "lose money" when the artist that painted the canvas over the fire place falls out of favor. Only when you take the painting to market and it gavels for less than you paid (including inflation) have you "lost."

So if you buy with no intention to sell or, rather, an intention to use and enjoy, the idea of "losing money" doesn't really exist.

Oh and watches are a horrible investment. Good luck.

[Yobber76]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

I should have taken a poll. Being ok with losing money is an acceptable response. I’d prefer to not lose money therefore I’m not a subscriber to your position but your position is still valid.

I don't think spending money on something you have a passion for is the same as an investment.
You may love golf, travel the world, learn to cook like a gourmet chef, spend thousands and thousands of dollars a year, with no capital rate of return, but cherish the memories and the sense of accomplishment in doing them. In part, buying a Rolex vs another watch has, for me a sense of accomplishment in the ability to "invest" the money in it. I didn't have that money when I was younger, I worked a lifetime to get there.
What if, Swiss luxury watches go the way of other "collectibles" in the future, because in subsequent generations, they don't care about watches, as your generation did. I've read articles about collectibles that everyone thought would become investments like Lladro figurines, Norman Rockwell plates, etc., the list is probably endless, that are worth a tenth of what someone paid for them. The reason, the new generations don't want clutter, they don't decorate the same way, minimalism has become a trend, etc.. Maybe that changes, maybe not. Maybe 20 years from now, luxury watches, even watches in general become an old fad. No one knows. If you have enough of a passion for watches to "invest" in them, buy them, enjoy them.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by bax_tron

You are assuming that we buy watches (or any other luxury-non-essential good) with the intention of selling.

You don't "lose money" when the artist that painted the canvas over the fire place falls out of favor. Only when you take the painting to market and it gavels for less than you paid (including inflation) have you "lost."

So if you buy with no intention to sell or, rather, an intention to use and enjoy, the idea of "losing money" doesn't really exist.

Oh and watches are a horrible investment. Good luck.

Watches in general if you include all brands and models are a horrible investment. I don’t agree that specific brands and pieces are a horrible investment. But when I say investment again I’m using the word investment to mean the expense to obtain. I think value retention and modest returns is achievable. I also think that can be part of the fun. I don’t plan to sell anything therefore it’s all just for fun but I don’t need to sell an item to see that it’s value increased in the marketplace.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Yobber76

I don't think spending money on something you have a passion for is the same as an investment.
You may love golf, travel the world, learn to cook like a gourmet chef, spend thousands and thousands of dollars a year, with no capital rate of return, but cherish the memories and the sense of accomplishment in doing them. In part, buying a Rolex vs another watch has, for me a sense of accomplishment in the ability to "invest" the money in it. I didn't have that money when I was younger, I worked a lifetime to get there.
What if, Swiss luxury watches go the way of other "collectibles" in the future, because in subsequent generations, they don't care about watches, as your generation did. I've read articles about collectibles that everyone thought would become investments like Lladro figurines, Norman Rockwell plates, etc., the list is probably endless, that are worth a tenth of what someone paid for them. The reason, the new generations don't want clutter, they don't decorate the same way, minimalism has become a trend, etc.. Maybe that changes, maybe not. Maybe 20 years from now, luxury watches, even watches in general become an old fad. No one knows. If you have enough of a passion for watches to "invest" in them, buy them, enjoy them.

The Risk can be part of the fun.

[Gharddog03]

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Gharddog03

And that too!

[Duey]

OP - This is TRF please be respectful of all