Discussion with a AD

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by RHIII

Furthermore — if the (above) stated information was collected and stored — and was ever lost or compromised you’ve set yourself up for a BIG lawsuit.


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You do realise that literally thousands of companies hold your personal data at any one time, yes?

Its not an issue.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by dmash

Precisely.

Other luxury brands give you the option of handing out your info, for ease of looking up past purchases/receipts, promo material, etc. but for a brand to say it’s MANDATORY you offer this info and we will verify it against your ID to ensure it’s accuracy....that’s an entirely different thing.

No its not.

It would be a simple condition of purchase.

You don't like it, you walk. You do, you buy the watch.

None of this hurts Rolex sales. There are many more buyers than hot references.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by dmash

Precisely.

Other luxury brands give you the option of handing out your info, for ease of looking up past purchases/receipts, promo material, etc. but for a brand to say it’s MANDATORY you offer this info and we will verify it against your ID to ensure it’s accuracy....that’s an entirely different thing.

This is standard allocation and vetting practice, you don't like it, sir, you don't buy from us again, and if they have a word to Rolex about your attitude you don't buy a Rolex ever again. Blacklists are in full operation now so you have to be smart now, Rolex are not looking to keep their customers happy they are looking to cull them like they have mad cow's disease, there are far too many of them.

[Rolex85]

Originally Posted by EDL7

What happens if your Daytona gets robbed...?
Rolex's response.."You should have hired a good bodyguard...you can't have another one..until next lifetime..you are going to reincarnate aren't you..? You can get it then...but it will be more expensive ..lol..".

Haha I know this is said in good fun and jokes but I actually had this discussion with a local AD and they said they will not sell multiple Daytona, SD43, BLNR, Hulk, same dial colour Sky to one person however they will sell it to the insurance company acting on their behalf. Basically this is their way of verifying it was stolen. They figure if the insurance company approved your case then that is good enough for them. They are telling people when they buy the sought after pieces to insure them and IF anything happens to NOT take a payout from the insurance company but rather put the insurance company in touch with them and they will get them the replacement piece.

[Rolex85]

Originally Posted by Devildog

No its not.

It would be a simple condition of purchase.

You don't like it, you walk. You do, you buy the watch.

None of this hurts Rolex sales. There are many more buyers than hot references.

Exactly. it is covered under the simple line all retailers of any item state that "we have the right to refuse service" The last watch I purchased from my AD I was asked for my ID and my billing address had to match my mailing address. I had no issue providing all that information and in fact i felt more comfortable providing it all as it should make any; God forbidding, insurance claim that much easier.

[dmash]

I’ve had it.

I’m moving to Fossil

[Locust]

Typical human beings: Never believe anything can happen until it actually does. The UK guys are telling you what's up and you just spew vitriol back at them, call them crazy and dumb and the amount of disrespect shown to the OP makes me cringe. Here is an example:

2006 guy living in Ohio: "yeah Bob, it's awesome, I own condos in Ft. Lauderdale, venice beach and Naples, don't even have to make any payments, I'll just flip 'em before that for $100K profit!!
Same guy in 2009: Can't believe I lost everything, damn George Bush!
.........Human Nature

[AK797]

Originally Posted by dmash

I’ve had it.

I’m moving to Fossil

Just make sure it's not UK Fossil.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by AK797

Just make sure it's not UK Fossil.

I almost spit my drink on my screen

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Locust

Typical human beings: Never believe anything can happen until it actually does. The UK guys are telling you what's up and you just spew vitriol back at them, call them crazy and dumb and the amount of disrespect shown to the OP makes me cringe. Here is an example:

2006 guy living in Ohio: "yeah Bob, it's awesome, I own condos in Ft. Lauderdale, venice beach and Naples, don't even have to make any payments, I'll just flip 'em before that for $100K profit!!
Same guy in 2009: Can't believe I lost everything, damn George Bush!
.........Human Nature

We don't take it personally, and believe me when it started in the UK we all had similar reactions of outrage and disbelief but as with all things times change and you have to move with them.

[RHIII]

Originally Posted by Devildog

You do realise that literally thousands of companies hold your personal data at any one time, yes?



Its not an issue.

Of course I do. And I also know how much it costs them when there is a breach.

These larger companies can afford it (buying credit monitoring, offering incentives, etc)— a typical jeweler - AD type - not so much. Too much of a liability. Period.


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Devildog

x3

The responses to these threads are often hilarious (and sadly sometimes quite condescending, particularly from those who clearly must have missed the significant number of threads on here evidencing what is really happening)

I look forward to all the naysayers apologising to the OP in due course

its a simple case of finding the example disputing it and then someone uses that to disprove the entire trend. It happens with the stickers too. They are getting removed almost all of the time then one guy says their AD left them on and then people say "see thats proof its not happening"

[dmash]

Originally Posted by RHIII

Of course I do. And I also know how much it costs them when there is a breach.

These larger companies can afford it (buying credit monitoring, offering incentives, etc)— a typical jeweler - AD type - not so much. Too much of a liability. Period.


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I agree with Roger again on this point. Especially in litigation happy USA. But I guess we can all agree to disagree.

Again, I can perhaps see this being implemented any time there is a *waiting list* involved. But to simply walk into an AD on any given day and you must prove your identity and them log your drivers license prior to buying a freaking watch? Absolutely will not become the normal. ‘Hey honey, let’s go watch shopping, make sure you have your ID’.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by dmash

I agree with Roger again on this point. Especially in litigation happy USA. But I guess we can all agree to disagree.

Again, I can perhaps see this being implemented any time there is a *waiting list* involved. But to simply walk into an AD on any given day and you must prove your identity and them log your drivers license prior to buying a freaking watch? Absolutely will not become the normal. ‘Hey honey, let’s go watch shopping, make sure you have your ID’.

Here’s why I don’t agree with Roger.

That small AD is already holding sensitive personal data. It has employees. It has customers details and It has credit card details.

It’s not being asked to hold anything more than it already is, or do anything new. If it’s can keep what it’s got safe it can keep extra data safe.

It’s no more likely to be sued than it was last week or last year. The security measures are the same.

Here in Europe we’ve got new data protection regs coming in to force on Friday.

If you’re in any kind of business, your basically affected. Any kind. It’s only when you really look into it that you see how much data is already out there.

Of course it’s not any watch. It’s hard to get references that you’ve already expressed interest in.

You want to register interest- you provide ID.

It’s really that simple.

You guys are starting to sound desperate now. Clutching at straws as to why “it just can’t be”

It sucks. For sure. But it could become reality very easily


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by RHIII

Of course I do. And I also know how much it costs them when there is a breach.

These larger companies can afford it (buying credit monitoring, offering incentives, etc)— a typical jeweler - AD type - not so much. Too much of a liability. Period.


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you can't sue equafax for their breach (if you accepted the credit monitoring as you waved that right, at least initially you had to) and you cant sue your CC company for any breach either because of the arbitration clause. Just saying... there are ways businesses make it next to impossible.

I cant think of any case where people got paid for this kind of thing. There might be but i am drawing a blank.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Here’s why I don’t agree with Roger.

That small AD is already holding sensitive personal data. It has employees. It has customers details and It has credit card details.

It’s not being asked to hold anything more than it already is. If it’s an keep what it’s got safe it can keep extra data safe.

It’s no more likely to be sued than it was last week or last year. The security measures are the same.

Here in Europe we’ve got new data protection regs coming in to force on Friday.

If you’re in any kind of business, your basically affected. Any kind. It’s only when you really look into it that you see how much data is already out there.

But you are getting silly now. It’s not any watch. It’s hard to get references that you’ve already expressed interest in.

You want to register interest- you provide ID.

It’s really that simple.

You guys are starting to sound desperate now. Clutching at straws as to why “it just can’t be”

It sucks. For sure. But it could become reality very easily


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I sound desperate and I’m getting silly? My very first response to this thread was AGREEING that it may be applied to waiting list models. And then the post you quote and again clearly state that it may be applicable if there’s a waiting list, but it will not be implemented for every model. That’s the point I’m making, I guess that went over your head. With you quoting my post and responding in that way it makes no sense whatsoever and if anything makes yourself look the way you seem to think of others. But like I said previously, we can agree to disagree.

Said post:

Originally Posted by dmash

This may be applicable to waiting list models,

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by dmash

I agree with Roger again on this point. Especially in litigation happy USA. But I guess we can all agree to disagree.

Again, I can perhaps see this being implemented any time there is a *waiting list* involved. But to simply walk into an AD on any given day and you must prove your identity and them log your drivers license prior to buying a freaking watch? Absolutely will not become the normal. ‘Hey honey, let’s go watch shopping, make sure you have your ID’.

it already is. You drop 10k in cash for a watch and there is paperwork and pretty sure the AD need to verify your identity as you cannot spend that kind of cash anonymously. Pay with a CC and they know who you are and most ask to see ID in that situation anyway. Am i missing something?

[dmash]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

it already is. You drop 10k in cash for a watch and there is paperwork and pretty sure the AD need to verify your identity. Pay with a CC and they know who you are. Am i missing something?

I’ve never paid with my card at a dealer and I know a lot of other people who don’t either. Doesn’t fly in the EU, but in the US yes. To be quite frank I’ve never purchased a watch over $10k at a dealer as 9 times out of 10 those were always cheaper grey market prior to last year.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by dmash

I’ve never paid with my card at a dealer and I know a lot of other people who don’t either. Doesn’t fly in the EU, but in the US yes. To be quite frank I’ve never purchased a watch over $10k at a dealer as 9 times out of 10 those were always cheaper grey market prior to last year.

there are IRS forms you are required to fill out at an AD if you spend more than 10k cash in the US. Im just saying they know who you are and its just a matter of what they do with the info. My UK AD takes a photocopy of my passport whenever i buy anything since my CC is chip and signature and not chip and pin. So they have a lot of info on me and its retained.

[SeaDweller50]

Originally Posted by WEST HAM ROLEX

So you own a SD43

You then want to buy one for your son,,,,,but can't?

My son would buy it.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

there are IRS forms you are required to fill out at an AD if you spend more than 10k cash in the US. Im just saying they know who you are and its just a matter of what they do with the info. My UK AD takes a photocopy of my passport whenever i buy anything since my CC is chip and signature and not chip and pin. So they have a lot of info on me and its retained.

Hmm, honestly I didn’t know that. I thought it was only for the initial withdrawal that paperwork was done. Practically any higher end purchase I don’t use mainstream dealers and also use bitcoin a fair bit, I guess that solidified even moreso why I do. That’s ridiculous (the $10k thing, not verifying identity on a CC purchase).

[A.I.]

Originally Posted by tjfslaughter

I was at an AD over the weekend discussing the shortage. They pointed out a few things Rolex is doing to stop re-sellers.

1. A person can only purchase one model of watch (for instance one SD43, one sub, one Daytona, etc) in a lifetime. If they want to purchase another one a police report or insurance statement must be provided demonstrating that the watch was damaged or stolen.
2. Rolex is talking to certain dealers to identify habitual flippers and recommending banning sales to them.
3. They are tracking purchasers, not just the name on the warranty cards.

I am not sure if this applies to all dealers or just the large chains.

I can personally vouch for points 2 & 3.

The first ceramic Daytona sold by my AD was to a long standing valued customer who flipped it to a grey the same week - 'a nice wee earner'.

Rolex made it their business (by whatever method) to track down the customer and then grilled the AD accusing them of not vetting the customer well enough. The result was that this long standing customer was blackballed and the AD reprimanded. Harsh for the AD I'm sure everyone will agree. Should this customer want to buy a Rolex in the future they would need to find an alternate route but using their own name means they have no chance.

I'm well known by my AD but when I registered my interest in adding an SD43 I had to reconfirm my full name, home address and add my email address along with my DOB. The suggestion was that my details would be submitted for approval (to their head office or Rolex I'm not sure?) but I was definitely being vetted. Finally on the day of delivery the warranty card was inserted into the card reader and a pin number input by the AD. Was I now part of the Rolex tracking system? If my watch popped up on the grid I'm fairly postive Rolex would know the same day. (Just my opinion but all greys use an online web checker to protect them from buying tied or fraudulently obtained goods and it wouldn't surprise me if Rolex has access to the report data).

When I expressed my desire to purchase an SS Pepsi (Basel day 10.31am) my AD insisted on a branch visit to reconfirm the personal details already held on file. When I popped in later on that morning we confirmed my details hadn't changed and the AD explained that if/ when I get the watch the conditions of sale had been changed. The warranty card will now be a 12mo hold and stickers will removed (done to death) etc. Incidentally they weren't adding names to a list and only selling these harder to find models to existing customers who expressed their interest during a branch visit.

The phone never stopped ringing for the 30 mins I was there.

Sorry I wandered slightly off topic, just wanted to share my experience.

[MVP]

Originally Posted by A.I.

I can personally vouch for points 2 & 3.

The first ceramic Daytona sold by my AD was to a long standing valued customer who flipped it to a grey the same week - 'a nice wee earner'.

Rolex made it their business (by whatever method) to track down the customer and then grilled the AD accusing them of not vetting the customer well enough. The result was that this long standing customer was blackballed and the AD reprimanded. Harsh for the AD I'm sure everyone will agree. Should this customer want to buy a Rolex in the future they would need to find an alternate route but using their own name means they have no chance.

I'm well known by my AD but when I registered my interest in adding an SD43 I had to reconfirm my full name, home address and add my email address along with my DOB. The suggestion was that my details would be submitted for approval (to their head office or Rolex I'm not sure?) but I was definitely being vetted. Finally on the day of delivery the warranty card was inserted into the card reader and a pin number input by the AD. Was I now part of the Rolex tracking system? If my watch popped up on the grid I'm fairly postive Rolex would know the same day. (Just my opinion but all greys use an online web checker to protect them from buying tied or fraudulently obtained goods and it wouldn't surprise me if Rolex has access to the report data).

When I expressed my desire to purchase an SS Pepsi (Basel day 10.31am) my AD insisted on a branch visit to reconfirm the personal details already held on file. When I popped in later on that morning we confirmed my details hadn't changed and the AD explained that if/ when I get the watch the conditions of sale had been changed. The warranty card will now be a 12mo hold and stickers will removed (done to death) etc. Incidentally they weren't adding names to a list and only selling these harder to find models to existing customers who expressed their interest during a branch visit.

The phone never stopped ringing for the 30 mins I was there.

Sorry I wandered slightly off topic, just wanted to share my experience.

This is really interesting

[JR16]

These threads are exhausting to read :sigh:


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[Devildog]

Originally Posted by dmash

I sound desperate and I’m getting silly? My very first response to this thread was AGREEING that it may be applied to waiting list models. And then the post you quote and again clearly state that it may be applicable if there’s a waiting list, but it will not be implemented for every model. That’s the point I’m making, I guess that went over your head. With you quoting my post and responding in that way it makes no sense whatsoever and if anything makes yourself look the way you seem to think of others. But like I said previously, we can agree to disagree.

Said post:

Apologies - I missed that part of your post and have amended my comment

My desperate point was a general one. Not aimed at you specifically. Hence “you guys”

Ps. You are the master of a quick edit so maybe I didn’t miss it after all

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Apologies - I missed that part of your post

My desperate point was a general one. Not aimed at you specifically

This all a ploy by Rolex! The crown is trying to divide us, we must stick together!


Edit:

Originally Posted by Devildog

Apologies - I missed that part of your post and have amended my comment

My desperate point was a general one. Not aimed at you specifically. Hence “you guys”

Ps. You are the master of a quick edit so maybe I didn’t miss it after all

What you say about quick edit?

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by dmash

Hmm, honestly I didn’t know that. I thought it was only for the initial withdrawal that paperwork was done. Practically any higher end purchase I don’t use mainstream dealers and also use bitcoin a fair bit, I guess that solidified even moreso why I do. That’s ridiculous (the $10k thing, not verifying identity on a CC purchase).

It’s not ridiculous. It’s to prevent money laundering - sadly one of the ways modern terrorism is financed

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by dmash

This all a ploy by Rolex! The crown is trying to divide us, we must stick together!


Edit:



What you say about quick edit?

[lecorsaire]

As much as I would like to believe this is being implemented it is as possible to enforce as no smoking in public parks and jaywalking in NYC. It is a real problem. I know someone who bought both black and white DaytonaCs from the same AD and resold both!

People can argue capitalism all they want, but the reality is that unfortunately what happened to the sneaker market from 2011-present is now affecting the watch market just with more zeroes. For those not aware of what I'm talking about, for a long time every single Jordan and Yeezy release was gobbled by resellers both through backdoor deals and through the use of bots online. This resulted in $200-250 shoes reselling for up to $2500 on the same day of release. When you consider that there are multiple, highly desirable shoes released every month this results in ridiculous profits for those with connections. Imagine not being able to secure a single pair, just to see guys on IG and Craigslist standing in front of 50 pairs.

I think ADs should require payment in full when you order these watches even if delivery is more than a year away. Most ordinary resellers that don't have stores would not be willing to have tens of thousands tied up for that long. They are interested in buying and making a profit its quickly as possible.

[mrhoju]

Originally Posted by A.I.

I can personally vouch for points 2 & 3.

The first ceramic Daytona sold by my AD was to a long standing valued customer who flipped it to a grey the same week - 'a nice wee earner'.

Rolex made it their business (by whatever method) to track down the customer and then grilled the AD accusing them of not vetting the customer well enough. The result was that this long standing customer was blackballed and the AD reprimanded. Harsh for the AD I'm sure everyone will agree. Should this customer want to buy a Rolex in the future they would need to find an alternate route but using their own name means they have no chance.

I'm well known by my AD but when I registered my interest in adding an SD43 I had to reconfirm my full name, home address and add my email address along with my DOB. The suggestion was that my details would be submitted for approval (to their head office or Rolex I'm not sure?) but I was definitely being vetted. Finally on the day of delivery the warranty card was inserted into the card reader and a pin number input by the AD. Was I now part of the Rolex tracking system? If my watch popped up on the grid I'm fairly postive Rolex would know the same day. (Just my opinion but all greys use an online web checker to protect them from buying tied or fraudulently obtained goods and it wouldn't surprise me if Rolex has access to the report data).

When I expressed my desire to purchase an SS Pepsi (Basel day 10.31am) my AD insisted on a branch visit to reconfirm the personal details already held on file. When I popped in later on that morning we confirmed my details hadn't changed and the AD explained that if/ when I get the watch the conditions of sale had been changed. The warranty card will now be a 12mo hold and stickers will removed (done to death) etc. Incidentally they weren't adding names to a list and only selling these harder to find models to existing customers who expressed their interest during a branch visit.

The phone never stopped ringing for the 30 mins I was there.

Sorry I wandered slightly off topic, just wanted to share my experience.

I can also vouch for part of this conversation. I've got my name down for a few different models with my local AD since they are impossible to get so I figured I'll space out the purchases when they (if they ever) come in and it's my turn. When I called about putting my name down for the new GMT Pepsi they straight out told me they "know me" and think I'm a flipper (i've purchased a few watches from them). I was pretty shocked and said that wasn't the case, mentioned the watches I purchased from them and where they were... I still need to go down there and try to straighten everything out.

But it does sound like Rolex and retailers are starting to pay attention to this more.