Why go through trouble and expense of getting Sub (v. DJ)?

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by Juicemt

That's no basis for discounting the DJ's decades upon decades of popularity. The reason the DJ comes in the options and SKUs it does is because the customer's have the appetite for the variations and the variations sell. Rolex doesn't sell more DJ's because they offer more SKUs, they offer more SKUs because it's the most popular DJ and customers want more variations.

TRF is indeed a fishbowl and there's a hivemind in place on these things. The population of the world votes with their wallets, and they vote DJ. You don't have to like it.

You’ve inferred from my comment something I neither said nor implied.

I did not suggest the DJ is not a hugely popular watch. I didn’t even say it’s less popular than the Sub.

I simply said you can’t draw conclusions on desireability based on sales figures.

[Late]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Minor point, but saying the DJ sells more than the Sub is like saying BMW sells more than the Mercedes E-Class. Completely true but also somewhat misleading.

The Sub only comes in 8 varieties. The DJ comes in how many?

I like how you combined so many errors into one comparison. Mercedes sells a lot more vehicles than BMW... but they're, on average, cheaper and often industrial. Mercedes is the General Motors/Chevrolet/Buick of Germany. But silly Merkins only know their luxury cars, and assume that implies quality of all their cars. Nope.

I do wonder if the DJ41 alone outsells the Sub though... it seems like supply alone may have the Submariner over-constrained.

[Late]

Originally Posted by Roleplay

I've got Sub, Sub Date, Hulk, variants of GMTII like LN, BLNR, BLRO, Daytonas like 16520, 116520, 116500LN, but I recently acquired a jubilee DJ41 and I must say it is my favourite of the lot. The DJ41 smooth/jubilee is so comfortable and light, it disappears on your wrist after you put it on. The jubilee bracelet has many holes that provide ventilation, one could say it's like a perforated bracelet. It has such an iconic and classic look, it's such a joy to look down at my wrist just to appreciate it visually. If I really had to reduce all of the watches to just one, it would be the Datejust.

It's seems like nowadays every young guy is wearing a Sub, GMT or other, and when I wear the Datejust I realise that I am actually in the minority. You would think Rolex sells tons of these, but where do all they go? I just don't see them in the wild. On the other hand, the professional models are literally everywhere....

I see more DJs than Subs in my world, which is mostly 40-60 year old folks with successful careers, families and a resistance to anything fake or exaggerated. I'm not around generally-pretentious people; if they want a rugged watch, they buy a Seiko. Or a Garmin. How many people here even know DeepBlue?

I adore my DJ41 Rolesor Jubilee, Dark Rhodium, but the two watches that get the glory when I wear them are my Seiko Cocktail Blue (original, not the new one) and my Swatch Sistem 51 sunburst green automatic.

[Roleplay]

Originally Posted by Late

I see more DJs than Subs in my world, which is mostly 40-60 year old folks with successful careers, families and a resistance to anything fake or exaggerated. I'm not around generally-pretentious people; if they want a rugged watch, they buy a Seiko. Or a Garmin. How many people here even know DeepBlue?

Definitely more “sports” models than DJ41s in my world. Pretty rare to see a DJ41 in the wild here. The same is reflected by the customers who venture into the ADs. 9 out of 10 are asking for professional models, or nothing. They just walk out. They don’t buy classic models like the DJ41 at all.



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[Brny11]

Sub 100,000% over datejust cause I like it more. I’d get a DJ to compliment a Sub, but as one and only I’d take a sub all day everyday. If no sub, I’d take Explorer over DJ.

Maybe it’s an age thing, but Rolex classic watches do not appeal to me the same way a Sports watch does.


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[rbox]

I figured it out guys. It’s the pearl. That little sucker is AAA quality.


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[MercedesHand]

The DJ is an Olympic fencer. World class but in one field of endeavor.

The Sub is a multi styled, all around MMA ass kicker.

Both excellent watches but the Sub far more versatile.

[DonBateman]

Because the DJ isn’t a Sub.

[cvo]

Why drive a BMW 328 when you can drive an M model. A DJ is too ordinary - it is nice but not like a Sub Date.

[hbombkid]

I have thought about this before specifically selling my Sub but keeping a Rolex in the collection.

I wanted to use the extra cash to help fund another watch purchase.

I was close to doing it and the DJ is nice, but the Sub is on a different level and look can’t be beat.

[Finslayer83]

Originally Posted by GMTmatt

James Bond does not wear a DJ.

Started with an explorer.

[reeko]

Originally Posted by mangoseed

James Bond doesn't wear anything because he doesn't exist.

This! And I agree with everything late has responded with. I haven't seen any anyone wear a sub where I am, just DJs and one milgauss.

Either way, both watches are great and iconic and sought after buy the normal population.

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[Hogtown Fatty]

you can systemically list all the things they have in common (and even advantages, if any, of the dj), but at the end of the day, objectivism has little/no place in watch-buying land. this is a largely nostalgia/hype-based contingent who wants shit that reminds them of days of yore (read: james bond, paul newman, clint eastwood, etc.) or shit that's hard to get so they can flex. as a result of the latter, lots of the collections end up looking the same and lack personality. sorry, got a bit off track there. personally, i think the sub looks way cooler than the dj and aesthetic alone is more than enough reason to take one over the other imo. and while the dj has grown on me in recent years, i'll never be able to shake the "cheap dd" vibe- why not just go ex1? cheaper and cooler (imo) than the dj and just as dressy or casual.

[Roleplay]

Originally Posted by Hogtown Fatty

personally, i think the sub looks way cooler than the dj and aesthetic alone is more than enough reason to take one over the other imo. and while the dj has grown on me in recent years, i'll never be able to shake the "cheap dd" vibe- why not just go ex1? cheaper and cooler (imo) than the dj and just as dressy or casual.

I have both PtDD40 and DJ41 smooth/jubilee and never have a problem with the Datejust perception-wise. Sometimes you want the lightness and comfort of the jubilee bracelet. The president bracelet is not as comfortable as the jubilee, even though it is a shame there is no more hidden clasp.

Sub looks cool, but if you don’t need the professional functions it can never compare the the DJ comfort wise. For all intents and purposes, the DJ is just superior for general everyday use. If you had to choose between the two and never had both, most would go with the Sub. If you have experienced both before, and aren’t too vain (haha subjective I know), one might lean toward the DJ.

That being said, EX1 is a good choice, does everything!



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[Case61]

If you want to see a whole bunch of people talking past each other, start a Sub v. DJ thread.



PS Personal preference is Sub, but it's just personal preference.

[Hogtown Fatty]

Originally Posted by Roleplay

I have both PtDD40 and DJ41 smooth/jubilee and never have a problem with the Datejust perception-wise. Sometimes you want the lightness and comfort of the jubilee bracelet. The president bracelet is not as comfortable as the jubilee, even though it is a shame there is no more hidden clasp.

Sub looks cool, but if you don’t need the professional functions it can never compare the the DJ comfort wise. For all intents and purposes, the DJ is just superior for general everyday use. If you had to choose between the Teo and never had both, most would go with the Sub. If you have experienced both before, and aren’t too vain (haha subjective I know), one might lean toward the DJ.

That being said, EX1 is a good choice, does everything!



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Great post- I just assumed we were all ultra vain (like me) and didn't let sensible things like comfort or function dictate our preferences. Envious of that PTDD40- incredible piece.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by Late

I like how you combined so many errors into one comparison. Mercedes sells a lot more vehicles than BMW... but they're, on average, cheaper and often industrial. Mercedes is the General Motors/Chevrolet/Buick of Germany. But silly Merkins only know their luxury cars, and assume that implies quality of all their cars. Nope.

I do wonder if the DJ41 alone outsells the Sub though... it seems like supply alone may have the Submariner over-constrained.

Is it really too much to expect people to actually read what other people write, and not what they think was written, before pumping out a response?

[rbox]

Originally Posted by Late

I like how you combined so many errors into one comparison. Mercedes sells a lot more vehicles than BMW... but they're, on average, cheaper and often industrial. Mercedes is the General Motors/Chevrolet/Buick of Germany. But silly Merkins only know their luxury cars, and assume that implies quality of all their cars. Nope.



I do wonder if the DJ41 alone outsells the Sub though... it seems like supply alone may have the Submariner over-constrained.

Context. I really hate it when people talk down at Americans. Except for the relatively recent appearance of some MB branded work vans at Chrysler and MB dealerships and such, MB is a luxury brand in the US. A pretty direct comparison can be drawn between MB’s US offerings and BMW’s. I doubt the fact that MB is a multi-dimensional global brand escapes many of us.


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[teck21]

"The biggest challenge for jewellery is the fact that it, traditionally, has been associated with formality. Today's lifestyle is not formal, and I personally think formality is not going to come back – you see it first and foremost in fashion."

According to Tiffany’s CEO in June last year, and it’s hard to argue with that sentiment.

So it’s a huge big millennial shift in tastes, massive spike in global disposable income along with Rolex’s supply and pricing policies that’s resulting in the current SS sports shortage.

It’s like the perfect storm.


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[bluered]

The only reason I like a sub over a dj is the timing bezel on the sub I use very day !

[teck21]

Quick look at the highest profile richest people today, and contrast the lifestyles and dress styles of the young and the old.

The younger ones are the corporate heroes to today’s young people, and see how they dress compared to the older corporate titans. Even Bill Gates, arguably the oldest of the young lot appears casual much of the time.


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[jimcameron]

Originally Posted by Dabbadon8

Why hunt for and pay more for a Sub when you can get a DJ easily, i

Why buy a Rolex at all, when you can buy an equally functional watch for under $100?

Why?

1. Because there is a small percentage of Rolex owners that appreciate the craftsmanship, etc.

2. Because there is a large percentage of Rolex owners that wish to impress other people and they believe the Sub is more impressive than the DJ

[VicLeChic]

Although I like DJs, I don't love them enough to buy them at MSRP. They don't convey a sense of adventure, capability and sturdiness, all based on personal perception, not actual fact.

For some reason the professional models look young and timeless, whereas the DJs and other classic models look old and timeless, IMHO.

Having said that, I will probably end up with a DJ or a DD one day, as I get older, leaving my sports steel to my son and daughter.

[Roleplay]

It’s interesting to note that the DJ41 smooth/jubilee is the same price as a Sub (no date).


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[Devildog]

Originally Posted by Seibei

Because the Sub is probably the most iconic and well known watch made by man and the DJ is not.

You are quite new to the Rolex game, aren't you?

[WoundUpInTheSouthUSA]

I love my Sub-C Date but would like to one day get a TT DJ-41. I like both watches. The DJ is dressier and I would wear it if my job required me to dress up, but my job now requires only very casual dress. So the Sub is more versatile for my needs. I do think the DJ looks better with gold than the Sub

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by Late

Nobody makes a Fluted/Cyclopsed/Jubilee DJ clone.

You were doing pretty well up to that point

[rbox]

Originally Posted by Devildog

You were doing pretty well up to that point

At one time there was actually a clone with a cyclops. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen older Seikos with a cyclops too.




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[Hansch99]

I own a Sub and a DJ, and the Sub has scarcely been worn since I got the DJ. It's more comfortable to wear, more versatile, and I just like the way it sits on my wrist better. I still like my Sub and am glad that I bought it, and I really think I always would've wondered "what if" had I bought the DJ first instead of the Sub. But now that I have both, it's not really a contest for me as to which I prefer. I think the OP is right to point out, too, that the DJ is much more of a sport watch than it's often given credit for. I'm seriously considering selling my Sub and picking up one of the new 36mm DJs that were just announced at Baselword.

[Late]

Originally Posted by Roleplay

Definitely more “sports” models than DJ41s in my world. Pretty rare to see a DJ41 in the wild here. The same is reflected by the customers who venture into the ADs. 9 out of 10 are asking for professional models, or nothing. They just walk out. They don’t buy classic models like the DJ41 at all.

You have a sample analysis problem.

Suppose you have three enthusiastic buyers. One wants a DateJust Wimbledon or white-face DJ, one wants a DJ41 Rolesor Jubilee in blue or rhodium, and one wants a Sub.

With those distributions, it might be reasonable to assume every AD can satisify the first buyer, perhaps one-of-five the second, and one-in-ten (optimistically) the third.

So, by the end of the month, across the ten ADs (if hit in the worst order), just from these three people, you've had:

• One customer for the easy DJ
• Five for the hard DJ
• Ten for the Sub

That doesn't make the Sub more popular, just harder to find. It could be both more popular and harder to find, but you don't know that from the data you have.