House owners VS renters

[Gaijin]

I've owned and sold 3 homes. Made a profit on all of them. Great investments, though I didn't know it at the time. People said I was crazy.

My first one was seriously in the 'hood." Gunshots outside not nightly but darn near weekly. I was young and well armed, single. So no worries. Bought a 1928 remodeled Craftsman Bungalow for 5 figures.That neighborhood gentrified and now it is Starbucks and Micro Brew places on every block.

I'm semi retired now, don't want a tenant and I rent because I honestly don't know where I'm going to be living tomorrow. I like that.

All of my personal possessions other than my car and my dog can fit into a suitcase. If I ever settle, maybe I'll buy again.

[crazymcmichael]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

I've owned and sold 3 homes. Made a profit on all of them. Great investments, though I didn't know it at the time. People said I was crazy.

My first one was seriously in the 'hood." Gunshots outside not nightly but darn near weekly. I was young and well armed, single. So no worries. Bought a 1928 remodeled Craftsman Bungalow for 5 figures.That neighborhood gentrified and now it is Starbucks and Micro Brew places on every block.

I'm semi retired now, don't want a tenant and I rent because I honestly don't know where I'm going to be living tomorrow. I like that.

All of my personal possessions other than my car and my dog can fit into a suitcase. If I ever settle, maybe I'll buy again.

that is also something i like, what you mention now.. The whole idea of owning just a few good watches and as much money as possible and than be basicly ''free man'' so no big posessions

[superdog]

Originally Posted by crazymcmichael

that is also something i like, what you mention now.. The whole idea of owning just a few good watches and as much money as possible and than be basicly ''free man'' so no big posessions

It’s wonderful if you can do it.

Tom has earned it through trial and error and life in general. And he’s got the loot to back it up. Earned through time.

The idea of living out of a suitcase for life is certainly appealing. But it’s not easy to get to that place.

[goin camping]

Bought my first house in Los Angeles in my 20's. Cruddy house in a great area.

Much rather own than rent. Hate having my plans in the hands of landlords. Also like the tax breaks and profits made.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

I've owned and sold 3 homes. Made a profit on all of them. Great investments, though I didn't know it at the time. People said I was crazy.

My first one was seriously in the 'hood." Gunshots outside not nightly but darn near weekly. I was young and well armed, single. So no worries. Bought a 1928 remodeled Craftsman Bungalow for 5 figures.That neighborhood gentrified and now it is Starbucks and Micro Brew places on every block.

I'm semi retired now, don't want a tenant and I rent because I honestly don't know where I'm going to be living tomorrow. I like that.

All of my personal possessions other than my car and my dog can fit into a suitcase. If I ever settle, maybe I'll buy again.

I'm pretty sure we'll be in the drink if/when we sell our house in Japan. However, I consider it a great investment considering the time we spend there. No more hotel costs......nor mental costs of staying with my wife's family.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by pickettt

I'm pretty sure we'll be in the drink if/when we sell our house in Japan. However, I consider it a great investment considering the time we spend there. No more hotel costs......nor mental costs of staying with my wife's family.

I totally understand. My married friends here absolutely cringe when they have to go spend time with their in laws.


They mean well, they just dote and give lots of unwanted advice. Draining after about 2 1/2 days. I guess it is like that everywhere though.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

I've owned and sold 3 homes. Made a profit on all of them. Great investments, though I didn't know it at the time. People said I was crazy.

My first one was seriously in the 'hood." Gunshots outside not nightly but darn near weekly. I was young and well armed, single. So no worries. Bought a 1928 remodeled Craftsman Bungalow for 5 figures.That neighborhood gentrified and now it is Starbucks and Micro Brew places on every block.

I'm semi retired now, don't want a tenant and I rent because I honestly don't know where I'm going to be living tomorrow. I like that.

All of my personal possessions other than my car and my dog can fit into a suitcase. If I ever settle, maybe I'll buy again.

Really interesting story Tom. Thanks for sharing this

[uscmatt99]

It’s a decision based on your location, lifestyle, and future plans. For my family it made complete sense to buy. The rental market is targeted at singles and couples, and homes for rent are rare, and usually not that nice. The property taxes are low. $500K gets you a 5 bed 4 bath nicely finished home, $800K gets you well over 5000 finished square feet with a lot of customization and a fully built walkout basement, or smaller place on a lake. Homes over a million are rare, usually big homes on a sporting lake with a dock and/or small beach.

We will have our home paid off in a total of 15 years, though monthly payments will drop significantly after 10 years when the home equity loan is paid. Property taxes are 10-12K annually, plus maintenance costs. I estimate that if we stay here for 20 years until both kids are moved out, we could lose over $100K in value and still come out ahead, all while living in a home customized to our needs.

My wife wants to relocate to Chicago after I retire, and we hope to get a second property there sooner than that. Completely different calculus. I’ll have to time the market a bit, account for interest rates, HOA fees, parking, etc. It may very well make sense to rent at the end of the day.

[davef]

I`ve never rented

[Watchflair]

You have to pay for where you want to live - the taxes are the taxes. Being in Westchester NY we have some of the highest property taxes in the country but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. The schools are top notch so it eliminates the need for private schools. Location wise I think it's the best of both worlds - my house is in horse country yet only 50 minutes to NYC.

Personally I believe in most cases it makes sense to purchase your primary residence. You can customize it as you wish and it's yours.

I also have a house in South NJ that is rented out and paying for itself. Yes I do have incidentals here and there but so far so good. I also know that I've been blessed with a good tenant.

I personally don't believe the $10,000 limit on property tax deduction effects the average buyer of these homes.

[Lawman77]

Only own a home if you can pay off the note inside of 3 years.
Of course, all cash is preferred.

[Fat_ninja]

Other people rent from me :). Im fortunate enough to have a lot of houses and lots of watches ;)

Was an active decision over a decade ago...its not my day job tho

[gmh1013]

My home in Cypress was paid off years ago...house i just bought in Phoenix I put 55 percent down and the financed the other 45 percent for 15 years....
Back before the crash I owned some condos in North Scottsdale ....3 to be exact ....picked them up as repos' and rented them out as golf vacation homes for 5 years or so since they were all on Kierlands goldfcourse....when i sold all 3 in May- June 2007 I was in a state of shock how much we made...enough to retire on....my wife left her job within weeks after 23 years at Wells Fargo and i Left IBM in Dec 2007.....plus the house we lived in was worth 115 percent more than what we paid for it.......real estate has been very very good to me.

[MrEleven]

Most wealthy people rent i would think why would you want a mortgage the bank wins its that simple. If your buying a house cash again another dumb move imo could make so much more money from a s and p 500 or even gold. Seen a lot of interviews over the years and alot of super rich just rent including grant cardone infact he just recently did a interview saying just how dumb buying a house was.

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by MrEleven

Most wealthy people rent i would think why would you want a mortgage the bank wins its that simple. If your buying a house cash again another dumb move imo could make so much more money from a s and p 500 or even gold. Seen a lot of interviews over the years and alot of super rich just rent including grant cardone infact he just recently did a interview saying just how dumb buying a house was.

You sure this is accurate?

[MrEleven]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

You sure this is accurate?

Yes i watched his interview on vladtv then a week later grant cardone did the same topic on his own YouTube channel. Valdtv is very anti home owning so he asks alot of his wealthy guests and surprisingly most laugh when asked if they own or rent and the majority rent.
Think about it say you take a mortgage for 25 years the norm and after 25 years you have probably have a house that has doubled in price but add up what you have payed to the bank. Doesn’t look so good now.
Go look at what you could of made is a low cost index fund or gold golds around 400% profit and s and p 500 is even more so owning a house cant even be considered a investment its a liability

[singe89]

Originally Posted by MrEleven

Yes i watched his interview on vladtv then a week later grant cardone did the same topic on his own YouTube channel. Valdtv is very anti home owning so he asks alot of his wealthy guests and surprisingly most laugh when asked if they own or rent and the majority rent.
Think about it say you take a mortgage for 25 years the norm and after 25 years you have probably have a house that has doubled in price but add up what you have payed to the bank. Doesn’t look so good now.
Go look at what you could of made is a low cost index fund or gold golds around 400% profit and s and p 500 is even more so owning a house cant even be considered a investment its a liability

Don't go off what you saw on one interview and assume that is fact that works for all. Everyone's situation is different and location location location really matters as well.

"Think about it say you take a mortgage for 25 years the norm and after 25 years you have probably have a house that has doubled in price but add up what you have payed to the bank. Doesn’t look so good now."

Actually it does. You didn't subtract what you have put into principal(paying yourself), saved in tax deductions vs. what you would have paid in rent for a similar place. Chances are rent will be much more.

Rent over a 25 year period should be more expensive than a mortgage locked in 25 years ago. I keep raising rent on my tenants every year but my mortgages on those properties are locked in and use their money to pay down the loan and turn a profit.

I also just passed 5 years in my primary residence. House has been up over 100% ROI vs. the down payment in that time period. I have also gotten the tax deduction and it would cost me $1.5-$2k more per month to rent a similar place.

Outside of the headaches of ownership if you plan on being in one location for a long time and depending on location (rent and property appreciation) it could be much better buying.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by singe89

Don't go off what you saw on one interview and assume that is fact that works for all. Everyone's situation is different and location location location really matters as well.

"Think about it say you take a mortgage for 25 years the norm and after 25 years you have probably have a house that has doubled in price but add up what you have payed to the bank. Doesn’t look so good now."

Actually it does. You didn't subtract what you have put into principal(paying yourself), saved in tax deductions vs. what you would have paid in rent for a similar place. Chances are rent will be much more.

Rent over a 25 year period should be more expensive than a mortgage locked in 25 years ago. I keep raising rent on my tenants every year but my mortgages on those properties are locked in and use their money to pay down the loan and turn a profit.

I also just passed 5 years in my primary residence. House has been up over 100% ROI vs. the down payment in that time period. I have also gotten the tax deduction and it would cost me $1.5-$2k more per month to rent a similar place.

Outside of the headaches of ownership if you plan on being in one location for a long time and depending on location (rent and property appreciation) it could be much better buying.

Your house looks beautiful Jim

[MrEleven]

Originally Posted by singe89

Don't go off what you saw on one interview and assume that is fact that works for all. Everyone's situation is different and location location location really matters as well.

"Think about it say you take a mortgage for 25 years the norm and after 25 years you have probably have a house that has doubled in price but add up what you have payed to the bank. Doesn’t look so good now."

Actually it does. You didn't subtract what you have put into principal(paying yourself), saved in tax deductions vs. what you would have paid in rent for a similar place. Chances are rent will be much more.

Rent over a 25 year period should be more expensive than a mortgage locked in 25 years ago. I keep raising rent on my tenants every year but my mortgages on those properties are locked in and use their money to pay down the loan and turn a profit.

I also just passed 5 years in my primary residence. House has been up over 100% ROI vs. the down payment in that time period. I have also gotten the tax deduction and it would cost me $1.5-$2k more per month to rent a similar place.

Outside of the headaches of ownership if you plan on being in one location for a long time and depending on location (rent and property appreciation) it could be much better buying.

Think ill stick to my stocks and gold for investments and leave real estate alone. I actually bought my house outright and if i had stuck that money into a s and p 500 back then well i would be alot richer than i am today. Also think i would rather take advice for a billionaire through real estate on how bad house are as a investment over a random guy on a watch forum no offence intended but you know what i mean.

[Andy0331]

Originally Posted by MrEleven

Most wealthy people rent i would think why would you want a mortgage the bank wins its that simple. If your buying a house cash again another dumb move imo could make so much more money from a s and p 500 or even gold. Seen a lot of interviews over the years and alot of super rich just rent including grant cardone infact he just recently did a interview saying just how dumb buying a house was.

One of Grant Cardone's big business ventures is also owning thousands of multi-family apartment complexes and actively sells shares in them to his followers; of course he encourages renting. However, he doesn't seem to have many holdings outside large urban areas; why is that?

As several have noted, the right answer boils down to these factors:

• Planned length of residency in XX area
• Local Market Dynamics
• Personal Financial Discipline

If you are uncertain, or don't plan on staying in an area long; renting makes a lot of sense.

If you are in an area where the market & ownership factors make owning more expensive than renting; renting makes a lot of sense. If you live in an area where renting an equivalent house is ~30% more than a mortgage payment; owning is a better deal (assuming you intend to stay, or would keep & then rent out your property if you moved).

All the talk of "invest the difference in XX" means nothing if you lack the discipline to actually save & invest that money. Most "regular" people lack the willingness or financial ability to save anything. In that case (and the first 2 points make sense), then this individual is now "forced" to save by owning a home, which is far better than years of thousands dollars pissed away on expensive meals, new phones, cars, etc. and little to no savings for retirement.

I think the general demographics of this forum make it easy to forget that the vast majority of people (at least in America) are deep in debt for non-essentials and do not plan for the future at all. I'm sure we all have either friends or relatives that fall into that category.

Yes, I am a homeowner and a commercial landlord. However, it makes sense for me, in my market. You have to look at each market individually.

[Ballzzz]

Originally Posted by Andy0331

One of Grant Cardone's big business ventures is also owning thousands of multi-family apartment complexes and actively sells shares in them to his followers; of course he encourages renting. However, he doesn't seem to have many holdings outside large urban areas; why is that?

As several have noted, the right answer boils down to these factors:

• Planned length of residency in XX area
• Local Market Dynamics
• Personal Financial Discipline

If you are uncertain, or don't plan on staying in an area long; renting makes a lot of sense.

If you are in an area where the market & ownership factors make owning more expensive than renting; renting makes a lot of sense. If you live in an area where renting an equivalent house is ~30% more than a mortgage payment; owning is a better deal (assuming you intend to stay, or would keep & then rent out your property if you moved).

All the talk of "invest the difference in XX" means nothing if you lack the discipline to actually save & invest that money. Most "regular" people lack the willingness or financial ability to save anything. In that case (and the first 2 points make sense), then this individual is now "forced" to save by owning a home, which is far better than years of thousands dollars pissed away on expensive meals, new phones, cars, etc. and little to no savings for retirement.

I think the general demographics of this forum make it easy to forget that the vast majority of people (at least in America) are deep in debt for non-essentials and do not plan for the future at all. I'm sure we all have either friends or relatives that fall into that category.

Yes, I am a homeowner and a commercial landlord. However, it makes sense for me, in my market. You have to look at each market individually.

At least there are some people on this thread who get it. I see many posters "assuming" people are machines which just isn't true.

Well said, I agree 100%.

[GB-man]

I personally viewed paying for my home up front as an investment in the stability of my marriage and my young families well being. I sleep extremely well knowing we can survive off peanuts and still maintain our current lifestyle.

If I was renting a similar home and had that money invested then I risk losing the investment and god forbid our incomes are compromised. People find themselves in poor financial situations fast and I prefer to avoid that risk at this stage in my life.

I would never suggest everyone buy but it makes me happy to be a homeowner.

[dxbtousa]

The amount of guru's in this thread is amazing.

[steve099]

I rent even though I can afford to buy. I dont like factors like being owned by a bank, over paying for a residential property ( where I live a decent 3 bedroom home is 2-3M), nor do i care to deal with upkeep, rates, council and possibly problematic neighbors.

Investment wise I just keep reinvesting in my various business interests and intend to add some commercial property next year to diversify my portfolio. One day I will buy a few acres along the coast as a weekend retreat, and aim to retire there when I am older.

It works for me as i am not married and have no kids etc...If I had a family then I would get them a home for their sake but only then.

[imperio]

Originally Posted by crazymcmichael

Guys,



Considering anyone here spends crazy money on watches i was wondering are there any guys that actually don't own a house but rather rent it?

I'd actually would rather rent something than buy something as sonetimes it can be even cheaper on the long run.. Not when you rent something nice offcourse.



Anyone???

We rent even though we can easily afford to buy. We did the math and it works out cheaper to rent. Mortgage interest and property taxes alone for a comparable home are higher than what it costs to rent... Which makes it a no brainer to rent where we are. May be different for other areas.

[East Bay Rider]

Renting has its place.
For a young couple with no kids just starting out it can be a great way to test compatibility, learn what they want, where they want to live and to get their careers started without the pressure of owning.
Also in a multi family apartment house the landlord is (presumably) spreading his expenses (taxes, mortgage, water/utilities) among all the tenants.

[RLX_NY]

There's no right or wrong answer. Everyone's situation is different and owing vs renting might work for some and not others. Each person has to do their pros and cons for renting vs. owing to see what's better for them.

[O M Z]

I rent out 3 apartments but I rent my own apartment, does that make sense?


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[steve099]

Originally Posted by O M Z

I rent out 3 apartments but I rent my own apartment, does that make sense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It makes a lot of sense. It is a common investment strategy.

[CamSLC]

Originally Posted by O M Z

I rent out 3 apartments but I rent my own apartment, does that make sense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Makes a lot of sense. It could be a great opportunity to rent out a few investment properties and live in different locations around the world off the income.

Obviously "ownership/investment" is still in the equation.

What's best is not a right or wrong answer. It depends on the person.