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Fred_Tan · 3 May 2009, 12:57 AM

If only they came out w DSSD in 1997...

But, they never did.

They let Panerai came out with so many cult model in 44 & 47mm and from 30m to 2500m in PAM1, 2, 4, 9, 16, 22, 26, 28, 36, 56, 115, 117, 127, 187, 194, 201, 202, 203, 217, 232, 233, 239, 243, 249, 262, 270, 292, 317 & etc before they decided to plug the mart loss.

They let AP came out with EOD & T3.

They let Patek run away with Nauts 3800, 5711, 5712 & 5980.

Dun get me wrong cos I totally agree SD, DSSD, Sub, Sub-Date, Ex2, Daytona & etc from Rolex are very good watches with popularity good design, technology, history & marketing.

But with Patek Philippe Nautilus exploits in 1970s to introduce the 1st real high-end sports watch and later Audemars Piguet ROO advent in End-of-Days, T3 & Alinghi in 1990s, Rolex found themselves squeeze from both ends of the mart with the lower end pressure coming from Panerai, Breitling, Omega & TAG.

One cannot ignore PP Nautilus, AP RB & Alinghi & OP manual models still do not offer any discount today amidst the depression globally while Rolex are offering 5 - 15% discount on all models including DSSD, SD, Sub-Date, Ex2, GMT2c & Milgauss.

I walked into not less than 50 ADs in USA, Europe, Asia, Middle East & Africas and are shocked to see M series Milgauss GV, Sub-Date LV, Black, Ex 2, GMT2c, DSSD & etc still sitting on the display shelf with no buyer even after 15% discount offers since Jan-09.

On AP & PP, you do see price dropping in AD but still above MSRP or at MSRP during the same time.

I personally think the reasons Rolex are suffering lack-lustre popularity are simple :
- Too slow to introduce any new design; nothing to shout aside from changes in Blue parachrome mainspring that took >25 years to surface
- Nothing new to shout bout aside from going deeper with DSSD and new Yachtmaster
- No millesimation number to control production - too many being made
- No appeal to younger generation - even existing Rolex fans like me are sick & tired of Rolex
- Too many ads; for many people, individuality is very important; the more ads blitz u do, the more people who thinks exclusivity is very important will get turned off by the media blitz. Rolex is fast becoming another Omega....
- Lack of special edition. And, special edition like Sub-Date LV are not discontinued even after thousands are made....why called it LV when it's nothing special?
- Too many events tied to Rolex; PGA Golf, Regatta....why they still need to sponsor so many events when even a yak shephard in Bhutan knows the brand?
- Why not spend the ads & event sponsorship $ on perpetual calendar, annual calendar or make something new? Why stopped at perpetual oyster since 1940s? Why stop making new breakthru since then? Has the world stop the time for Rolex?
- Too many ambassadors....why is Rolex trying to out-gun Omega & TAG on the number of ambassadors they hire? Do we really need winners to show Rolex is good?

What I can say is, many Rolex fans here in this very forum are moving to other brands......
It wont be long before we see this brand offering 30-60% discount ala BRM, Breiling, Glassutte, Lange & etc.

All this is my personal take....

housemad · 3 May 2009, 01:21 AM

Why sponsoring so many events??? because Rolex have to pay theses buildings!!! Name: IMG_1133.jpg
Views: 78
Size: 53.0 KB

housemad · 3 May 2009, 01:26 AM

Quote: - Lack of special edition. And, special edition like Sub-Date LV are not discontinued even after thousands are made....why called it LV when it's nothing special?

Fred...Panerai does the same thing...they just change the color of a needle and sold you the watch as special edition with the same ETA movement as a base pam for tripple the price!!!

housemad · 3 May 2009, 01:30 AM

I'm sorry Fred but Panerai are no better...they created an artificial rarety on the products so some stupids peoples will buy the god dam watch for 10 times the price it worth!

I dont mind bashing Rolex...but Panerai is just brilliant marketing...thats all.

Fred_Tan · 3 May 2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housemad

I'm sorry Fred but Panerai are no better...they created an artificial rarety on the products so some stupids peoples will buy the god dam watch for 10 times the price it worth!

I dont mind bashing Rolex...but Panerai is just brilliant marketing...thats all.

No worries, all watches are mart ploy....just tat Rolex is bit over , actually a lot overboard

Fred_Tan · 3 May 2009, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housemad

Quote: - Lack of special edition. And, special edition like Sub-Date LV are not discontinued even after thousands are made....why called it LV when it's nothing special?

Fred...Panerai does the same thing...they just change the color of a needle and sold you the watch as special edition with the same ETA movement as a base pam for tripple the price!!!

With Rolex, it'll be at least 10 years....

Fred_Tan · 3 May 2009, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housemad

I'm sorry Fred but Panerai are no better...they created an artificial rarety on the products so some stupids peoples will buy the god dam watch for 10 times the price it worth!

I dont mind bashing Rolex...but Panerai is just brilliant marketing...thats all.

We'll see who get bashed...

TswaneNguni · 3 May 2009, 02:00 AM

Settle down boys,settle down.It comes down to personal taste and what we, as individuals ,prefer.

Trurolexer · 3 May 2009, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Settle down boys,settle down.It comes down to personal taste and what we, as individuals ,prefer.

Amen with that.

BTW I was a Rolex Geek before DAMN Panerai bugs bitten me so hard!!!

Nica64 · 3 May 2009, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Settle down boys,settle down.It comes down to personal taste and what we, as individuals ,prefer.

X3, There's room for both brands to be love and cherish...... but for now my heart, wrist and money has move to Panerai

Trurolexer · 3 May 2009, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nica64

X3, There's room for both brands to be love and cherish...... but for now my heart, wrist and money has move to Panerai

So do I, Buddy...

housemad · 3 May 2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred_Tan

We'll see who get bashed...

I am a paneristi member already and everyone who know me there... know my opinion on Panerai...and how that tobacco compagny turn Panerai like a fisherman attracted fishes in the oceans!!! I personnaly got over Panerai long ago...I had 9 Panerai watches before the ones I have ...I even had a Pam002A...dont get me wrong...I still love the brand...I just see them with different eyes today...and they dont attract me like a fish on a hook anymore at any price!

brainbizz · 3 May 2009, 12:17 PM

Somebody fill me in please. What does a tobacco company have to do with panerai? I was just discussing things with someone up the Panerai food chain and they did say Asia was getting more but Panerai will be shipping fewer watches overall. IMHO a watch is worth what someone will pay for it. Panerai has taken a lesson from Ferrari if 500 people want a watch they will make 499.

TswaneNguni · 3 May 2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housemad

I am a paneristi member already and everyone who know me there... know my opinion on Panerai...and how that tobacco compagny turn Panerai like a fisherman attracted fishes in the oceans!!! I personnaly got over Panerai long ago...I had 9 Panerai watches before the ones I have ...I even had a Pam002A...dont get me wrong...I still love the brand...I just see them with different eyes today...and they dont attract me like a fish on a hook anymore at any price!

Never knew you caught "fishes" with tobacco !!! ...

I think you need to go and do your homework on who runs who.BAT(British American Tobacco) has nothing to do with Panerai.Richemont through Vendome owns Panerai/Cartier/IWC etc.etc.etc...and Reinette bought over some funds from the dead and first to go Lehman Bros.....at a bargain price.

Just like Johann Rupert bought Panerai VERY inexpensively,after a client visited his Zurich office with a Pre-V Panerai and obviously owning so many luxury brands,asked him out about the watch.....and bought the name soon afterwards. Lucky us !!!

TswaneNguni · 3 May 2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainbizz

Somebody fill me in please. What does a tobacco company have to do with panerai? I was just discussing things with someone up the Panerai food chain and they did say Asia was getting more but Panerai will be shipping fewer watches overall. IMHO a watch is worth what someone will pay for it. Panerai has taken a lesson from Ferrari if 500 people want a watch they will make 499.

Topman at Richemont owns quite a few vintage Ferraris.See the connection between Panerai and the Ferrari line of watches??

I can see at my AD,that the Panerai display is fuller than usual.Quite a nice selection available,where in the past they have had a situation where they only had two or three in stock.Thats the advantage of a recession...... Choices are more and the chance of a bigger discount too !!

Its a buyers market.

Lol-x · 3 May 2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Topman at Richemont owns quite a few vintage Ferraris.See the connection between Panerai and the Ferrari line of watches??

I can see at my AD,that the Panerai display is fuller than usual.Quite a nice selection available,where in the past they have had a situation where they only had two or three in stock.Thats the advantage of a recession...... Choices are more and the chance of a bigger discount too !!

Its a buyers market.

Where's your Ferrari then

And how do you know that the added supply of more stock to your retailer is not a function of increased production capacity by Panerai, or that he just received a normal shipment and you got in first. All as I'm saying there could be a number of factors bringing abou that situation that are additional too or not the result of the current economic situation.

GBJIV · 3 May 2009, 03:35 PM

With PAM - the production numbers are known. I don't think it could be an increase in production. Unless you count new models as increase in production - shifting from old models to new - leaving old models in the cases. In that case, you would also have to look at the number of models that fall off production as well because they simply are not produced any longer and unavailable.

Unfortunately, I don't see an increase in availablility at the AD's in So. California. Wish that were the case - I also, have not had luck in CA with discounts...

TswaneNguni · 3 May 2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Where's your Ferrari then

And how do you know that the added supply of more stock to your retailer is not a function of increased production capacity by Panerai, or that he just received a normal shipment and you got in first. All as I'm saying there could be a number of factors bringing abou that situation that are additional too or not the result of the current economic situation.

A few models went up in numbers produced,but that doesnt explain the high stock.I also dont visit once,I go there often,so its got nothing to do with them just receiving a shipment.
They are still smiling,make no mistake.They are selling well.... Panerai especially,but the current economic downturn has its effect.No question.Good,because if you are buying,its to your advantage.

Lol-x · 3 May 2009, 05:00 PM

O.K. I guess you showed me to be wrong and I respect that

But to restore my honour and self-dignity I need to

you back somehow

O.K. I'm in a good mood today

Fred_Tan · 3 May 2009, 05:18 PM

At the end of the day, all of us are watch fans....we are lovers of good design....

Trurolexer · 3 May 2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred_Tan

At the end of the day, all of us are watch fans....we are lovers of good design....

Absolutely agree with you, Fred!!!

brainbizz · 3 May 2009, 11:04 PM

Here is a pic I had sitting around. I absolutely see styling after the cars and after Panerais.

Trurolexer · 4 May 2009, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainbizz

Here is a pic I had sitting around. I absolutely see styling after the cars and after Panerais.

Very nice watch!!!

GBJIV · 4 May 2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

A few models went up in numbers produced,but that doesnt explain the high stock.I also dont visit once,I go there often,so its got nothing to do with them just receiving a shipment.
They are still smiling,make no mistake.They are selling well.... Panerai especially,but the current economic downturn has its effect.No question.Good,because if you are buying,its to your advantage.

I didn't know that production went up... Not sure if it's true - but, i did here that the 312 was originally 4000 - and now it is 2000 - at least for this serial number

That makes the hunt for those wanting a 312 in the near future that much more stressful if true.

Trurolexer · 4 May 2009, 04:06 PM

I don't know I can get that 312 this year or maybe worse next year...

BMAN8 · 6 May 2009, 12:38 AM

Panerai have nices watches (I ownded a 111 for while) but, IMO, they're not a long-term daily wearer. They're just too big.

It's nice to have one in a collection of watches but there are so many other watches that, IMO, are more suitable for daily wear.

Trurolexer · 6 May 2009, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMAN8

Panerai have nices watches (I ownded a 111 for while) but, IMO, they're not a long-term daily wearer. They're just too big.

It's nice to have one in a collection of watches but there are so many other watches that, IMO, are more suitable for daily wear.

Jus a matter of taste, Bro.

VazLube · 6 May 2009, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBJIV

I didn't know that production went up... Not sure if it's true - but, i did here that the 312 was originally 4000 - and now it is 2000 - at least for this serial number

That makes the hunt for those wanting a 312 in the near future that much more stressful if true.

Maybe 2000 is for K and 2000 (?) is for L so in theory they can release 4000+ pieces?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMAN8

Panerai have nices watches (I ownded a 111 for while) but, IMO, they're not a long-term daily wearer. They're just too big.

It's nice to have one in a collection of watches but there are so many other watches that, IMO, are more suitable for daily wear.

oh really? they are perfect for me enough to be a daily wearer, almost a year in fact.

Rolexism · 6 May 2009, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VazLube

oh really? they are perfect for me enough to be a daily wearer, almost a year in fact.

Happen to me the same,After since I got 111G last Jan it became my daily wearer and my Rolex haven't seen daylight since then

drtooth73 · 6 May 2009, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trurolexer

Very nice watch!!!

and the car is not bad, either.

3 May 2009, 12:57 AM	#121
Fred_Tan Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Real Name: Fred Tan Location: Singapore Watch: Bumble Bee Posts: 668	Dun get me wrong, DSSD came out too late If only they came out w DSSD in 1997... But, they never did. They let Panerai came out with so many cult model in 44 & 47mm and from 30m to 2500m in PAM1, 2, 4, 9, 16, 22, 26, 28, 36, 56, 115, 117, 127, 187, 194, 201, 202, 203, 217, 232, 233, 239, 243, 249, 262, 270, 292, 317 & etc before they decided to plug the mart loss. They let AP came out with EOD & T3. They let Patek run away with Nauts 3800, 5711, 5712 & 5980. Dun get me wrong cos I totally agree SD, DSSD, Sub, Sub-Date, Ex2, Daytona & etc from Rolex are very good watches with popularity good design, technology, history & marketing. But with Patek Philippe Nautilus exploits in 1970s to introduce the 1st real high-end sports watch and later Audemars Piguet ROO advent in End-of-Days, T3 & Alinghi in 1990s, Rolex found themselves squeeze from both ends of the mart with the lower end pressure coming from Panerai, Breitling, Omega & TAG. One cannot ignore PP Nautilus, AP RB & Alinghi & OP manual models still do not offer any discount today amidst the depression globally while Rolex are offering 5 - 15% discount on all models including DSSD, SD, Sub-Date, Ex2, GMT2c & Milgauss. I walked into not less than 50 ADs in USA, Europe, Asia, Middle East & Africas and are shocked to see M series Milgauss GV, Sub-Date LV, Black, Ex 2, GMT2c, DSSD & etc still sitting on the display shelf with no buyer even after 15% discount offers since Jan-09. On AP & PP, you do see price dropping in AD but still above MSRP or at MSRP during the same time. I personally think the reasons Rolex are suffering lack-lustre popularity are simple : - Too slow to introduce any new design; nothing to shout aside from changes in Blue parachrome mainspring that took >25 years to surface - Nothing new to shout bout aside from going deeper with DSSD and new Yachtmaster - No millesimation number to control production - too many being made - No appeal to younger generation - even existing Rolex fans like me are sick & tired of Rolex - Too many ads; for many people, individuality is very important; the more ads blitz u do, the more people who thinks exclusivity is very important will get turned off by the media blitz. Rolex is fast becoming another Omega.... - Lack of special edition. And, special edition like Sub-Date LV are not discontinued even after thousands are made....why called it LV when it's nothing special? - Too many events tied to Rolex; PGA Golf, Regatta....why they still need to sponsor so many events when even a yak shephard in Bhutan knows the brand? - Why not spend the ads & event sponsorship $ on perpetual calendar, annual calendar or make something new? Why stopped at perpetual oyster since 1940s? Why stop making new breakthru since then? Has the world stop the time for Rolex? - Too many ambassadors....why is Rolex trying to out-gun Omega & TAG on the number of ambassadors they hire? Do we really need winners to show Rolex is good? What I can say is, many Rolex fans here in this very forum are moving to other brands...... It wont be long before we see this brand offering 30-60% discount ala BRM, Breiling, Glassutte, Lange & etc. All this is my personal take....

3 May 2009, 03:35 PM	#137
GBJIV "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Real Name: Jackson Location: So. California Posts: 2,893	With PAM - the production numbers are known. I don't think it could be an increase in production. Unless you count new models as increase in production - shifting from old models to new - leaving old models in the cases. In that case, you would also have to look at the number of models that fall off production as well because they simply are not produced any longer and unavailable. Unfortunately, I don't see an increase in availablility at the AD's in So. California. Wish that were the case - I also, have not had luck in CA with discounts... __________________ Jackson

3 May 2009, 05:00 PM	#139
Lol-x Facilitator Join Date: Nov 2005 Real Name: Steve Location: Omnipresent Posts: 33,587	O.K. I guess you showed me to be wrong and I respect that But to restore my honour and self-dignity I need to you back somehow O.K. I'm in a good mood today __________________ *Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.* ~Abraham Lincoln Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy ROLEXploitation - yeah I'm a victim

3 May 2009, 05:18 PM	#140
Fred_Tan Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Real Name: Fred Tan Location: Singapore Watch: Bumble Bee Posts: 668	You guys are good people At the end of the day, all of us are watch fans....we are lovers of good design....

3 May 2009, 11:04 PM	#142
brainbizz Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 608	Here is a pic I had sitting around. I absolutely see styling after the cars and after Panerais. Attached Images

3 May 2009, 01:21 AM	#122
housemad Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: David Location: Montreal Watch: Graham chr.GMT O/S Posts: 373	Why sponsoring so many events??? because Rolex have to pay theses buildings!!!

3 May 2009, 01:26 AM	#123
housemad Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: David Location: Montreal Watch: Graham chr.GMT O/S Posts: 373	Quote: - Lack of special edition. And, special edition like Sub-Date LV are not discontinued even after thousands are made....why called it LV when it's nothing special? Fred...Panerai does the same thing...they just change the color of a needle and sold you the watch as special edition with the same ETA movement as a base pam for tripple the price!!!

3 May 2009, 01:30 AM	#124
housemad Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: David Location: Montreal Watch: Graham chr.GMT O/S Posts: 373	I'm sorry Fred but Panerai are no better...they created an artificial rarety on the products so some stupids peoples will buy the god dam watch for 10 times the price it worth! I dont mind bashing Rolex...but Panerai is just brilliant marketing...thats all.

3 May 2009, 02:00 AM	#128
TswaneNguni "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Real Name: Chris Location: . Watch: Daytonas/Subs/GMTs Posts: 12,609	Settle down boys,settle down.It comes down to personal taste and what we, as individuals ,prefer.

3 May 2009, 12:17 PM	#133
brainbizz Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 608	Somebody fill me in please. What does a tobacco company have to do with panerai? I was just discussing things with someone up the Panerai food chain and they did say Asia was getting more but Panerai will be shipping fewer watches overall. IMHO a watch is worth what someone will pay for it. Panerai has taken a lesson from Ferrari if 500 people want a watch they will make 499.

4 May 2009, 04:06 PM	#145
Trurolexer Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: USA Watch: 5513MaxiI+PreComex Posts: 18,421	I don't know I can get that 312 this year or maybe worse next year...

6 May 2009, 12:38 AM	#146
BMAN8 "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: CAN Posts: 629	Panerai have nices watches (I ownded a 111 for while) but, IMO, they're not a long-term daily wearer. They're just too big. It's nice to have one in a collection of watches but there are so many other watches that, IMO, are more suitable for daily wear.

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