Vacheron Contantin- Undervalued

[Houston77]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

Confirmed with boutique. People with deposits will pay new price whenever it comes in. And deliveries are “significantly delayed”

I frankly don’t care much about the price increase, but your last sentence scares the crud out of me! Haha

[NYG1121]

Originally Posted by Houston77

I frankly don’t care much about the price increase, but your last sentence scares the crud out of me! Haha

Right! I started with a 4 mo estimate 4 months ago when I paid deposit. Now it is in question whether it will even be this year…

[Nikrnic]

I can't believe it's been 16 mos since I bought my Overseas. I still love and wear and love all of my watches, Rolex, Omega, Tudor and Seiko but the VC seems to get better and better.

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[Houston77]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

Right! I started with a 4 mo estimate 4 months ago when I paid deposit. Now it is in question whether it will even be this year…

My receipt does contain a “promised” date. No idea if that means anything, haha.

[le_baron]

Originally Posted by GK12345EMAIL

I tried to purchase the 82172/000R-9888 boutique edition, but they stopped making it 2 years ago. And I can't find one online anymore.

That's a shame

[Jonah10]

Originally Posted by Houston77

Why was the chronometre bleu unpopular until it was one of the most popular watches on the planet? There a million examples of watches getting popular because people slowly discover them. It’s not like Piaget Polos are selling at crazy premiums like the Overseas. You are seriously coming off poorly in this thread.

First I’m ignorant and now I’m coming off poorly, you’re a pleasure to have a conversation with.


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[Toproll85]

Originally Posted by Jonah10

Vacheron has new pieces sold at a discount from the AD with a bag full of goodies to the buyer while Rolex, Patek, and AP have years worth of waiting lines and selling for insane prices on the grey market. There have been tons posts of people tired of waiting on an AD and choosing to go and buy something else.

Stop telling what is beyond you as if you know everything. The Nautilus took 40 years to become a must-have - 1976/2016. The Royal Oak even a little more - 1972/2016. Before, these 2 watches did not move the crowds. I know what I'm talking about collecting watches for over 15 years. The Overseas begins its ascent with this 4500v, especially the blue dial. And it is very good. It is full of qualities and specificities above its sisters, with a quick strap change system. And she is no more available today than the others in the Trinity. If it would be fair because it is then nobody would recognize it or want and move on to another, the market is contradicting you, today it reaches 40K in second hand and on the gray market.

And one last little thing, I think that the one who can not wait any longer for his Submariner is not going to have the fad to spend 2 to 3X more ! Because if money would not be the sinews of war for him, he would not wait, the market is full of Submariner without waiting above the list price.
VC is way above Rolex...

[uniqueMR]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

The return of the trinity? (minus rolex)

Trinity wins :)
AP + PP + VC

[eliaalsayegh]

Originally Posted by Toproll85

Stop telling what is beyond you as if you know everything. The Nautilus took 40 years to become a must-have - 1976/2016. The Royal Oak even a little more - 1972/2016. Before, these 2 watches did not move the crowds. I know what I'm talking about collecting watches for over 15 years. The Overseas begins its ascent with this 4500v, especially the blue dial. And it is very good. It is full of qualities and specificities above its sisters, with a quick strap change system. And she is no more available today than the others in the Trinity. If it would be fair because it is then nobody would recognize it or want and move on to another, the market is contradicting you, today it reaches 40K in second hand and on the gray market.

And one last little thing, I think that the one who can not wait any longer for his Submariner is not going to have the fad to spend 2 to 3X more ! Because if money would not be the sinews of war for him, he would not wait, the market is full of Submariner without waiting above the list price.
VC is way above Rolex...

Well said

[JCC296]

Originally Posted by Jonah10

People don’t actually like them.

Originally Posted by Jonah10

Vacheron has new pieces sold at a discount from the AD with a bag full of goodies to the buyer while Rolex, Patek, and AP have years worth of waiting lines and selling for insane prices on the grey market. There have been tons posts of people tired of waiting on an AD and choosing to go and buy something else.


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May I ask how long you have been collecting watches? In 2017, 15202st could still be bought with discount at authorized dealer, while 5711 was already getting hard to get and trading over retail. Are you implying 15202st were attracting buyers who bought them for tired of waiting for 5711? Up until 2018, 15400 and 15450 could still be had with 10-15% discount too. Based on your analysis of discounted watches means people don't actually like them but they buy them only because they are easier to come by, you really believe 15202/15400/15450 owners don't love their APs?

What about when Panerai was super hot and watches were trading double/triple of retail prices and Patek Nautilus could be had with discount instead? Please don't tell me you really think 5711/5712/5980 were attracting Panerai buyers who got tired of waiting and decided to just buy a 5711/5712/5980 and call it a day!

[Saintos]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

Confirmed with boutique. People with deposits will pay new price whenever it comes in. And deliveries are “significantly delayed”

Originally Posted by tufa

they honour the original price at the time of the deposit was placed (I checked with them)

Interesting to read what you say. Both have checked and both with different answers.

[Jonah10]

Originally Posted by Toproll85

Stop telling what is beyond you as if you know everything. The Nautilus took 40 years to become a must-have - 1976/2016. The Royal Oak even a little more - 1972/2016. Before, these 2 watches did not move the crowds. I know what I'm talking about collecting watches for over 15 years. The Overseas begins its ascent with this 4500v, especially the blue dial. And it is very good. It is full of qualities and specificities above its sisters, with a quick strap change system. And she is no more available today than the others in the Trinity. If it would be fair because it is then nobody would recognize it or want and move on to another, the market is contradicting you, today it reaches 40K in second hand and on the gray market.

And one last little thing, I think that the one who can not wait any longer for his Submariner is not going to have the fad to spend 2 to 3X more ! Because if money would not be the sinews of war for him, he would not wait, the market is full of Submariner without waiting above the list price.
VC is way above Rolex...

I guess you know everything with your 15 years of collecting. Good for you sir


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[Jonah10]

Originally Posted by JCC296

May I ask how long you have been collecting watches? In 2017, 15202st could still be bought with discount at authorized dealer, while 5711 was already getting hard to get and trading over retail. Are you implying 15202st were attracting buyers who bought them for tired of waiting for 5711? Up until 2018, 15400 and 15450 could still be had with 10-15% discount too. Based on your analysis of discounted watches means people don't actually like them but they buy them only because they are easier to come by, you really believe 15202/15400/15450 owners don't love their APs?

What about when Panerai was super hot and watches were trading double/triple of retail prices and Patek Nautilus could be had with discount instead? Please don't tell me you really think 5711/5712/5980 were attracting Panerai buyers who got tired of waiting and decided to just buy a 5711/5712/5980 and call it a day!

I’m talking about the current market not what happened years ago and not about who bought years ago.

A lot of buyers got tired of waiting and got out priced of the 5711 and went elsewhere. Same goes for a lot of the models in the AP line up.

Others were also not willing to spend close to $40k on a Daytona for example as it’s a $13k msrp watch.

It’s not too long ago people were getting VC at a discount from the AD. Until it got more attention because buyers came from other brands they couldn’t get watches from among others who just discovered the brand.

This isn’t me saying VC doesn’t make quality watches or doesn’t deserve to be mentioned with the other brands, it’s simply talking about current market and what I see going on. Obviously they make watches with amazing quality. I see a few VC owners in here losing their cool because I said something they didn’t like about their watches. At the end of the day buy whatever you like and enjoy it, doesn’t matter what I think!


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[Toproll85]

Originally Posted by Jonah10

I guess you know everything with your 15 years of collecting. Good for you sir

This is not my claim, and I have detailed my argument.
If you are short, maybe because it was conceited. Rather, it is you who seem to know more than everyone else.

So we buy VC because Patek or AP are unavailable?
I already have both and I buy an Overseas because it is a crazy watch, with the same level of finish and quality. And I also have to wait for months. Everything you claim is false.

And once again just know that today's hot watches did not necessarily start that way, this was the case even for the Nautilus and RO, just like the Overseas which has really taken off since 2019 but today has joined them.
The situation is global !

With that you can keep rotting VC, it won't change a thing, have a nice day

[Jonah10]

[mention]Toproll85 [/mention]

I understand that what’s hot today wasn’t before. And that in your specific case you maybe purchasing VC because it’s what you want regardless if you have the others in your collection or not.

But that does not change the fact that a number of buyers did go that route today because they couldn’t get what they wanted somewhere else. Search and you’ll find threads of people who did this.

I didn’t say VC was bad or isn’t making quality watches. I’m not in here to bash them or say Rolex is better. I’m simpler talking about the market, what’s happening in it today, and how many frustrated buyers have chosen to go elsewhere whether it’s VC or something else.

And there is no need to call me or anyone conceited or anything else for that matter. You don’t know me, we can have a respectful argument or not have one at all.


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[Toproll85]

Originally Posted by Jonah10

[mention]Toproll85 [/mention]
But that does not change the fact that a number of buyers did go that route today because they couldn’t get what they wanted somewhere else. Search and you’ll find threads of people who did this.

I didn’t say VC was bad or isn’t making quality watches. I’m not in here to bash them or say Rolex is better. I’m simpler talking about the market, what’s happening in it today, and how many frustrated buyers have chosen to go elsewhere whether it’s VC or something else.

Of course there are posts in this direction. Of course there are a few guys who are like "shit, I can neither have a Nautilus nor an RO, let's go I buy myself the last sports watch with integrated bracelet available expensive, more or less available, out of spite". Of course people just covet what other people covet for some kind of recognition or some stupid reason. The strength of a brand, marketing, is very powerful.

You come to "denigrate" the rising value of the 4500v model of Vacheron Constantin, and others by repercussion which will benefit in image, rating and popularity. What is the point ?
If it's because people can't have anything else, and realize that it's just as well to see better, that's pretty good, isn't it?

Do you think VC owes its success to that?
It is a house soon to be three hundred years old, do you think that if it would not be in good shape and loved it would have long since disappeared?

After that ? Rolex didn't interest anyone, they were affordable tool watches at the time. Today is something else and so much the better. Nautilus, RO, until 2016 you came back to the store and you had one without a problem. Today the market is as it is.
If now is VC's turn, where would the problem be?

If you could answer the question, it would help to see where the problem (yours) is in all of this...

[Houston77]

Originally Posted by Jonah10

[mention]Toproll85 [/mention]

I understand that what’s hot today wasn’t before. And that in your specific case you maybe purchasing VC because it’s what you want regardless if you have the others in your collection or not.

But that does not change the fact that a number of buyers did go that route today because they couldn’t get what they wanted somewhere else. Search and you’ll find threads of people who did this.

I didn’t say VC was bad or isn’t making quality watches. I’m not in here to bash them or say Rolex is better. I’m simpler talking about the market, what’s happening in it today, and how many frustrated buyers have chosen to go elsewhere whether it’s VC or something else.

And there is no need to call me or anyone conceited or anything else for that matter. You don’t know me, we can have a respectful argument or not have one at all.


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Link to a couple threads where people said this.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by Houston77

YoureTerrific has an excellent video about the Overseas in which he places an Overseas next to a Rolex GMT (like in Jonah10’s pic). The top comment: “The GMT looks like a toy watch next to the Overseas.”

As someone who sold his BLRO due to this phenomenon, I can only concur.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by Toproll85

Of course there are posts in this direction. Of course there are a few guys who are like "shit, I can neither have a Nautilus nor an RO, let's go I buy myself the last sports watch with integrated bracelet available expensive, more or less available, out of spite". Of course people just covet what other people covet for some kind of recognition or some stupid reason. The strength of a brand, marketing, is very powerful.

You come to "denigrate" the rising value of the 4500v model of Vacheron Constantin, and others by repercussion which will benefit in image, rating and popularity. What is the point ?
If it's because people can't have anything else, and realize that it's just as well to see better, that's pretty good, isn't it?

Do you think VC owes its success to that?
It is a house soon to be three hundred years old, do you think that if it would not be in good shape and loved it would have long since disappeared?

After that ? Rolex didn't interest anyone, they were affordable tool watches at the time. Today is something else and so much the better. Nautilus, RO, until 2016 you came back to the store and you had one without a problem. Today the market is as it is.
If now is VC's turn, where would the problem be?

If you could answer the question, it would help to see where the problem (yours) is in all of this...

I think the problem here is that both can be true at the same time. VC no doubt provide some of the highest intrinsic value among the trinity brands. AP is in a lower league altogether and Patek only reaches the level of execution well into the mid tier of what it offers (though the differences are admittedly marginal). So no doubt VC has been bringing great action, and has done so for years. But as they don’t advertise, the people need to come across them somehow to discover this. And there is no doubt either that this has happened increasingly in recent times due to the halo effect of the Nautilus and Royal Oak craze.

It’s as if you had a fantastic restaurant on an isolated country road off a big interstate called Genta highway. If some day the interstate was so congested that more people used your road as a deviation, more people would find out how great your restaurant has been all along. That doesn’t mean they would appreciate the food only because of the congestion, but they would not ever have come across the food, had it not been for it.

And let’s not forget that many people ever even got into the Nautilus and Royal Oak in the first place because they were popular rather than because they were good. So it’s a fair argument to say that those more superficially inclined folks are only now turning up at VC because VC is having a moment, and would not otherwise have been drawn by the great underlying watchmaking.

Some people would get in line for empty soda cans of they had a reasonable expectation to flip them for profit, so ever since the Overseas started to generate this expectation, it’s no wonder folks are showing up in greater numbers. I would argue that the Overseas being the great watch that it is is as irrelevant to that as are the quality of a Royal Oak or a Nautilus. Folks hope it’ll be the next thing to experience a meteoric rise, and so they are lining up without even really realizing what they are lining up for. That’s a pity, because every VC deserves to be purchased for its merits, but folks don’t have the level of sophistication. They see Anthony and Roman preaching profit on social media and storm into the boutique to get on the list.

This game is so stupid. Good thing I retired to collecting Lange... oh wait, Odysseus... right...

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Saintos

Interesting to read what you say. Both have checked and both with different answers.

It's up to the dealer. Watches of Switzerland specifically told me I would bear any increase post deposit. Same with Richemont NA if I made a Lange deposit. Eating 3% isn't such a big deal anyway if you're about to spend $20,900 to $30,100 on a steel overseas watch. I'd still be happy.

[Saintos]

Originally Posted by EEpro

It's up to the dealer. Watches of Switzerland specifically told me I would bear any increase post deposit. Same with Richemont NA if I made a Lange deposit. Eating 3% isn't such a big deal anyway if you're about to spend $20,900 to $30,100 on a steel overseas watch. I'd still be happy.

I just find it interesting if they will add or not. Like you said it’s small money in the picture.

[BendyBee]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

I think the problem here is that both can be true at the same time. VC no doubt provide some of the highest intrinsic value among the trinity brands. AP is in a lower league altogether and Patek only reaches the level of execution well into the mid tier of what it offers (though the differences are admittedly marginal). So no doubt VC has been bringing great action, and has done so for years. But as they don’t advertise, the people need to come across them somehow to discover this. And there is no doubt either that this has happened increasingly in recent times due to the halo effect of the Nautilus and Royal Oak craze.

It’s as if you had a fantastic restaurant on an isolated country road off a big interstate called Genta highway. If some day the interstate was so congested that more people used your road as a deviation, more people would find out how great your restaurant has been all along. That doesn’t mean they would appreciate the food only because of the congestion, but they would not ever have come across the food, had it not been for it.

And let’s not forget that many people ever even got into the Nautilus and Royal Oak in the first place because they were popular rather than because they were good. So it’s a fair argument to say that those more superficially inclined folks are only now turning up at VC because VC is having a moment, and would not otherwise have been drawn by the great underlying watchmaking.

Some people would get in line for empty soda cans of they had a reasonable expectation to flip them for profit, so ever since the Overseas started to generate this expectation, it’s no wonder folks are showing up in greater numbers. I would argue that the Overseas being the great watch that it is is as irrelevant to that as are the quality of a Royal Oak or a Nautilus. Folks hope it’ll be the next thing to experience a meteoric rise, and so they are lining up without even really realizing what they are lining up for. That’s a pity, because every VC deserves to be purchased for its merits, but folks don’t have the level of sophistication. They see Anthony and Roman preaching profit on social media and storm into the boutique to get on the list.

This game is so stupid. Good thing I retired to collecting Lange... oh wait, Odysseus... right...

This.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

I think the problem here is that both can be true at the same time. VC no doubt provide some of the highest intrinsic value among the trinity brands. AP is in a lower league altogether and Patek only reaches the level of execution well into the mid tier of what it offers (though the differences are admittedly marginal). So no doubt VC has been bringing great action, and has done so for years. But as they don’t advertise, the people need to come across them somehow to discover this. And there is no doubt either that this has happened increasingly in recent times due to the halo effect of the Nautilus and Royal Oak craze.

It’s as if you had a fantastic restaurant on an isolated country road off a big interstate called Genta highway. If some day the interstate was so congested that more people used your road as a deviation, more people would find out how great your restaurant has been all along. That doesn’t mean they would appreciate the food only because of the congestion, but they would not ever have come across the food, had it not been for it.

And let’s not forget that many people ever even got into the Nautilus and Royal Oak in the first place because they were popular rather than because they were good. So it’s a fair argument to say that those more superficially inclined folks are only now turning up at VC because VC is having a moment, and would not otherwise have been drawn by the great underlying watchmaking.

Some people would get in line for empty soda cans of they had a reasonable expectation to flip them for profit, so ever since the Overseas started to generate this expectation, it’s no wonder folks are showing up in greater numbers. I would argue that the Overseas being the great watch that it is is as irrelevant to that as are the quality of a Royal Oak or a Nautilus. Folks hope it’ll be the next thing to experience a meteoric rise, and so they are lining up without even really realizing what they are lining up for. That’s a pity, because every VC deserves to be purchased for its merits, but folks don’t have the level of sophistication. They see Anthony and Roman preaching profit on social media and storm into the boutique to get on the list.

This game is so stupid. Good thing I retired to collecting Lange... oh wait, Odysseus... right...

re your Lange comment but just like the rest spot on.

[tufa]

Originally Posted by Saintos

Interesting to read what you say. Both have checked and both with different answers.

I think different rules on the two continent. In the UK/EU, they can't change prices after paid the deposit

[Etschell]

undervalued is laughable. nope.

if anything it is becoming over valued. this company is so heavily invested in china if it fails the watches will be down significantly.

and i love VC. but i call it like i see it.

[ChetBaker]

I heard about the China connection before, but can you elaborate? I mean all models outside the Overseas line are available with a discount already so cannot see that go down a lot beyond this point. Always assuming overall demand is steady and R/PP/AP fail to meet demand.

[xeal]

Originally Posted by Etschell

undervalued is laughable. nope.

if anything it is becoming over valued. this company is so heavily invested in china if it fails the watches will be down significantly.

and i love VC. but i call it like i see it.

VC becoming overvalued is no different than the AP RO, or PP Nautilus or every common sports Rolex model.
There was a time when all were undervalued.
Heck just a month ago the 15202 traded at 50s and today at 80s everyone thinks they were overlooking a gorgeous watch and that it was under appreciated at 50s when compared to the nautilus, and I know tons that are actively looking to buy them today in the 70s/early 80s range.

Once the hype picks on, people tend to appreciate models more and more, and as prices go up, the hype / appreciation goes up as well.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by xeal

VC becoming overvalued is no different than the AP RO, or PP Nautilus or every common sports Rolex model.
There was a time when all were undervalued.
Heck just a month ago the 15202 traded at 50s and today at 80s everyone thinks they were overlooking a gorgeous watch and that it was under appreciated at 50s when compared to the nautilus, and I know tons that are actively looking to buy them today in the 70s/early 80s range.

Once the hype picks on, people tend to appreciate models more and more, and as prices go up, the hype / appreciation goes up as well.

the question was not if other brands are over valued. relative to those brands it is undervalued sure. relative to itself is it not under valued. that is my personal opinion.

[jed11]

Undervalued...overvalued...let’s just enjoy them!



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[Houston77]

Originally Posted by Etschell

the question was not if other brands are over valued. relative to those brands it is undervalued sure. relative to itself is it not under valued. that is my personal opinion.

I really don’t understand your posts, gotta be honest. How are you gauging value if you’re not comparing to competitors? How can you judge “value” by solely comparing a product to itself?